For about the millionth time on this issue, there is a difference between what is "necessary" and giving an occasional reward for "special" service. And thursdaysd, you still are ignoring the point which caused me to first comment on your comment. If you honestly think that a person leaving extra money to a server who has spent extra time explaining and translating a menu, offering suggestions to a foreigner who doesn't understand the menu and the items on it, and giving EXTRA personal service to a customer just out of kindness is JUST AS BAD as leaving no tip at all when it was expected by local custom, then your lack of understanding is much too great for us to deal with here!

The very bottom line is that tips are ALWAYS suggestions -- but often with a pretty well understood minimum amount. (And again for the millionth time, there IS a difference between "service charge" and "tip". Even when "service charge" is added, that does not preclude the possibility of a "tip" for special service. When I feel a waiter has gone out of his way to spend more time with me than is necessary, then I reward him with a greater than "what is necessary" tip. I do that in the US or in any other civilized country. No, I don't automatically tip when it is not a local custom, but when I have been given extra service and have met up with a server doing MORE than his required job with me, I will not be "bullied" in to believing I've committed a horrible faux pas by rewarding him slightly for his time and kindness.

NeoPatrick, you might sound more convincing if you didn't go into warrior mode on this question, if you acknowledged that there are circumstances where a lower-than-norm tip is justified, and if you actually seemed to know the norms for the places you write about. It would help readability, too, if you could leave the SHIFT key alone more of the time.

Cavil all you like -- and I see that you carefully reserve some scope for it -- but, let's focus on the reality: in nearly all cases one experiences fairly standard quality of service in European restaurants, with below standard being approximately as common as above standard. One deals with that by adjusting tips up or down within a range of reasonableness.

I don't care if you throw your money away -- it's yours. [My own preference, when giving money away, is to focus on certain charities.]

What type of tip do you all tip on a haircut and highlight at a beauty salon?

Ignoring local custom is a "bad thing". Period. If locals would occasionally tip high for extra service, then fine, do so. If they wouldn't, neither should you. And if they would never tip, again, neither should you. Equally, if you're in the US, then you should tip like the locals (which seems to vary depending on whether or not you're in a major city). I fail to see the difficulty here.

>..one of Washington's most zealous fine diners. "You really can't get away with under 20% these days, and most of the time I give 25%".

"The minute you walked in the joint,
I could see you were a man of
distinction,
A real big spender,
Good looking, so refined.
Say, wouldn't you like to know
What's going on in my mind"?

"Hey Rube, the pigeon is back".

15% is appropriate.

"15% is appropriate?" Where are we talking about now?

Where I live 15% is considered a bit chintzy for top-rank service.

>As for that Venetian waiter: he has probably been corrupted by Americans

See the opening 10 min of "Summertime".
...................................
Hi G,

>In various European countries/cities do you tip and how much/what percent do you tip:

>someone who helps carry your luggage?

1E/bag wherever I am

>a taxi driver?

About 1E if he doesn't take the long way

>a bistrot waiter?

round up in Italy and France. 10% in Germany and Austria

>a formal restaurant waiter?

Same as above

>a tour guide who is really good?
3-5 E

>a concierge who has made reservations or other arrangements for you?

Nothing. That's what they are paid to do.
Exceptions - tickets to a sold-out show, last-minute reservations at a very popular resto - 3-5E

>a bellman who gets you a cab?

Nothing. That is what they are paid to do.

>a massage therapist?

Don't they take Blue Cross?

>a hair stylist?
Don't know

I leave the femmes de chambres 1E/day, even though the hotel management usually frowns on that.

No offense, but ira lives in rural Georgia. I'm not surprised if 15% is considered "generous" at even their top spot. Do not expect to walk out without getting minor "hate stares" from the service staff if you leave 15% for good service at one of our many "trendy" restaurants in Naples, Florida, however. Here, 15% is fine after dining at Perkins or Denny's, but if you go to a nice restaurant, they will assume if they give you good service you will be leaving at least 20%. Sorry. Just the way it is.

Yes but Ira is a Brooklyn boy so he should know better!

"Ignoring local custom is a "bad thing". Period. If locals would occasionally tip high for extra service, then fine, do so."

Hooray. At last we agree 100%. There is no way you will convince me that local "fine diners" in Paris, Rome, Venice, and other major European cities do NOT sometimes leave 15% or even more for fine service in a fine restaurant. So here we were in agreement all the time. I'm not sure what the argument was about?

"In most moderate to upper crust restaurants, wait staff do quite well earnings-wise when hourly wages and tips are added together. If you've got four people at a table spending $30 each, then a 15% tip will amount to $18 or so for just that one table--and they can certainly take care of more than one table an hour. That's not bad money for unskilled labor."

Jake1, this quote illustrates a very popular misconception. The server in your example is not earning $18/hour for one table. At an upscale restaurant, servers have to "tip out" everyone from the bartender, to the busboys, to the sommelier with a portion of their tips. That is often done using an assumed tip percentage - say 16.5%. So even if a table stiffs their server by leaving a 5% tip, the server still has to tip out as if they'd been left 16.5%, meaning that they may have actually lost money on that table! Also, at an upscale place, a table may only turn over every 2 1/2-3 hours, so they are certainly not getting $18/hour/table, even before tipping out.

Also ira, in Washington, DC, 15% is chintzy, unless you are dissatisfied with the service. Everyone I know tips 20% here.

Whoah....the hotel frowns on leaving a tip for the maid? Where is the world does that come from?

Hi NP,

>[In Naples, FL] if you go to a nice restaurant, they will assume if they give you good service you will be leaving at least 20%. Sorry. Just the way it is.

We were in Naples, FL last year. Had lunch for 4. No added SC. Left 15%.

Very nice resto.

No nasty looks.

Maybe it was because we had 2 bottles of wine?

>in Washington, DC, 15% is chintzy, unless you are dissatisfied with the service. Everyone I know tips 20% here.

See "Hey, big spender.." above.

If youse guys is happy wit what youse does, I got no problem wit dat.

dutyfree: My wife tips her very talented hairdresser 33% which I think is excessive, but she really appreciates her stylist. I tip only 20% but I go to Supercut.

xyz123: I sometimes wonder how much tip my lawyer expects. I hope a great bottle of Napa wine is good enough. Unlike my old college roommate, my lawyer has never returned any bottle of wine I gave him so far, so it's a good sign.

NeoPatrick,
I have to disagree with your sweeping assumptions about major European cities. 15% is NOT the norm. Actually the norm is just rounding up. I travel frequently to Europe and dine out with local friends at fine restaurants. Rounding is their custom, nothing more.
Over-tipping is an American
custom. Many locals do NOT like it. And it does cause pressure on other Americans (and prb other foreign tourists) because so many Americans foolishly (THEIR opinion) throw their money away.

What you consider "special services" (explaining and helping the diner with the menu and translating) is actually the server's job. Major tourist centers restaurants specifically hire servers who speak English, among other languages, for this reason.
I don't tip a server extra for telling me the special of the day or answer questions about dishes in the US. But I would decrease the tip if they failed to do so since they did not do part of the minimum for their job.

Neo did not say that 15% was the norm..just that diners in fine restaurants in major European cities sometimes leave that amount.

I still want to hear about the Ira hotels where the management puts the kibbosh on leaving tips for the maids. Ooops. sorry, for the "femmes de chambres." How would one know this anyway..do you ask the front desk if it is ok to leave a tip for the chambermaid?

Dax..

Here is my story about lawyers; at least in the USA under the American tort system.....

Several years ago I was called for jury duty and was sent to be a prospective juror in a civil suit...in this court jurisdiction the voir dire is conducted by the lawyers and no judge is present.

anyway, I was the first panelist called and the lawyer for the plaintiff explained to me he would be asking for a large settlement (it was clearly one of those frivolous suits the American tort system is famous for)..

I looked him in the face and said, "Of course you're going to ask for a large settlement, you get 1/3 of it." He looked at me like I had said something terrible; he went outside with his colleague, came back in and told the panel they would have to disqualify the whole panel because of what I had said. And 5 minutes later, we were back in the jury room and 10 minutes later, they called the names of all the panelists who had been present in court when I had the gall to tell the truth and told us we were dismissed from jury duty, and this clown looked at me and said, "It's disgusting. I hope you never need a lawyer if somebody does something to you."

Your lawyer doesn't need your tip...he will do quite well as it is.

"I have to disagree with your sweeping assumptions about major European cities. 15% is NOT the norm."

Somehow I interpreted that remark to suggest that I said that 15% is the norm. I did not say that, nor anything like it. If you didn't mean that I said it, then I'll admit to totally misunderstanding your post. But for the life of me, if you weren't suggesting that I said 15% was the norm, then I can't figure out what it is you are saying you "disagree with my sweeping assumption" of. What "sweeping assumption" are you talking about then?

For the record, I consider totally misquoting a person as being just as "uncivil" as suggesting that a person read a statement before misquoting it.

Sorry, that I offended you by pointing out that you were misquoting me. I'm not sure how to politely point out that "sometimes" does not mean the same as "the norm".

Hey X,

> "Of course you're going to ask for a large settlement, you get 1/3 of it."

Absolutely inappropriate and improper.

The lawyer is an advocate for the client.

The monetary arrangements are utterly irrelevant to the jury's consideration of the facts.

...although it's off topic you can make anything you want of the American tort system...the reason we have so many frivolous law suits in the United States is that lawyers work on contingency basis and get 1/3 of the settlement...you know it, I know it, we all know it.

That is what leads to idiotic things like somebody suing McDonald's because they spilled coffee on themselves and it was too hot....

or how about suing the phone company because somebody was using a public phone and a car struck him (obviously the driver would not have the money to cover a large settlement).....

But at least I told the truth so I wasn't put on the jury...as a prospective juror, if there's anything that might compromise my impartiality, I should make that clear.

And again, just to tie it in here, that's why lawyers don't get tipped in America for winning a case (or you can look at their 1/3 of the settlement as their tip)....