kja

"Are there any countries tips ARE expected?" Yes indeed, and the US is one of them. And the expectation isn't simply because of norms, it's because the income of servers in the U.S. are highly depending on their tips.

Of course, that does NOT mean that tipping elsewhere is appropriate.

marvelousmouse

Yes, Kja, I'm familiar with the bit about servers' income and tips in the US. I'm a local...Washingtonian. I worked as a server in college, and while my workplace may have been irregular- we did get paid above minimum wage before tips- I still don't have much sympathy for the "expected tip" argument. I don't feel like I worked less hard at the jobs I did not get tipped at- good customer service is in any job description. My coworkers would not have given up tips in favor of a flat wage increase- and it's because they often made a good portion of their wage untaxed. I understand that, too. I feel like tipping is for GOOD service. Not "I showed up and did less than the bare minimum" service. I am deeply appreciative of some of the completely amazing servers I've met- for many of them, it is a profession, and they work for every tip they get. I just tend to be a bit cynical after working with some really entitled college students.

Anyways. Stepping off my soapbox...

Good to know it's not based on the bill total, thanks, pvoyageuse!

Whathello

Giving ,1 € for a café (P is as small as StCirq, what do you think Caffé ? Or are they both living by local standards ...) It is rounding up.

US who like to throw away their money will use this 'tip' to justify 'their' tips in %.
Now I don't care if some have too much money, but then some locals will expect tips from any torist - and I don't like it.

So as to the basic question : don't tip.
I wonder how old or where does Pvoyageuse comes from/is to say that tipping is in our culture. I'm not that young but I never tip. And I don't know any French who tips, except my neighbour, close to 70 who has worked half her life in restaurants.

In 1931 we did tip in France.

kja

@ marvelousmouse -- I guess I misunderstood your question: "Are there any countries tips ARE expected?" And I admit that I didn't fully answer your question -- I spoke only of the U.S. I can't testify to the accuracy of this source, but here's some information about tipping in other countries:
http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/20...-tipping-guide

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but it seems that you are conflating two separate issues: (a) Whether tips are necessary to ensure competent service (and from what I understand of your arguments, I agree -- they aren't, at least in general) and (b) whether tips are critical to some servers income -- and there, I think, we might disagree. In the U.S. today, tips ARE critical to many servers' income. I'm sure you realize that a substantial portion of U.S.'s tip-dependent servers are single women who are raising children with, at best, limited other non-governmental support.

I worked for tips for MANY years while I pursued various educational goals. I didn't adjust my service on the basis of whether I expected a tip or not. But I did work on the assumption that those I served would, on average, respect the norms and so allow me to earn a living wage. I also worked on the assumption that the tips I received would allow me to share those tips fairly with my coworkers - the busboys and bartenders, etc., who were also critical to the satisfaction of the diners I served. I can assure you that the difference between receiving a decent tip -- by U.S. standards -- and the nominal tip that some people left was, for me, the difference between being able to meet my monthly bills or not. I hope I NEVER have to work for tips again.

Bokhara2

Well, KJA - probably a good reason to
agitate for decent, living wages in the US. I think it is appalling and demeaning that anyone should have to rely on tips to make a basic wage, sufficient for normal living expenses, too.

Odin

In France I will leave a small tip or round up to the nearest EUR, same in Denmark and Sweden (to the nearest DKK or SEK). In the UK I always leave a tip if the bill says service not included. If the bill shows that 12.5% (in some cases it is 15%) is already added, then I do not leave an additional tip. I do not tip at all in Japan and in the US, I follow the custom of tipping at the appropriate %.

kja

@ Bokhara2 -- no argument from me on that front!

bilboburgler

just round up in Europe

but if the loo smells, don't tip ;-)

marvelousmouse

Completely agree with you and bokhara2 on that end. I support a living wage for everyone. My tips (even given that I still earned minimum wage) were the only reason I broke even some months. And I was on shoestring budget then, too.

jamikins

I know pubs in London target tourists for pubs. If I go up to the bar in a pub and use my card I am given the option to tip (I have a CDN accent). When my British friend goes up to the bar at the SAME pub and pays with a card (the same person behind the bar even) he isn't even given the option to tip. Happens all the time and I have no problem refusing the tip when I am given that option.

I never have this issue outside central London.

Pvoyageuse

Whathello : my point is that you do as you please: tip or don't tip. There is no rule. I know French people who tip and French people who don't. Age has nothing to do with tipping or not tipping. People are fortunately (for how long?) still able to do as they please.
As I wrete above, it is not expected, it is not an obligation but it is appreciated.
If you tip, tip reasonably by European standards, i.e. a few coins or rounding up to the next €, not 15 or 20% as in the US.
If you don't want to tip, don't. As simple as that.
If tipping is not in our culture, what do you think "pourboire" mean and why don't we use bakshish instead?

marvelousmouse

Oh- kja- in reply to the 2 issues- a) I agree but many of my coworkers did not see it that way, thus, my cynicism. b) I actually do agree with you that some (possibly many) servers NEED the tips to make the ends meet, but I just believe that shouldn't be the case. I'll continue to tip until the system is fixed (if it ever can be fixed).

Whathello

A pourboire is just that : to drink.
It implies that nobody needs it to survive - the way Kja describes it in the U.S. In US I do tip - generally more generously when the bill is small : if I eat for 15 $ I will more likely round to 20. If I eat for 100 $ I will give 110 max 115.
As Kja says you need to pay your own bills and these are not dependent on the quality of food I eat.

Pourboires have disappeared where I live eat and work and spend holidays.

Tips are definitely not needed in france everybody is paid.
You want a pay rise you change job you don't depend on tips

Asking for tips in france is like faire la manche. Pas vrai ?

Sur ce j'arrête ce sujet est trop discuté. Et finalement je m'en tape.

bilboburgler

I've been given my tip back by French staff, each time they explain that France is a civilised country and its staff are paid correctly.

Vienna, pouff! You got hit by the American scam. ;-)

kerouac

<i>People from the "regions" are more likely than Parisians to drive a few kms to change from their usual manger and try new places (with new staff).</i>

I'd be curious to know how the above statement is substantiated.

Meanwhile, most of my country cousins go to a restaurant on just one day a year -- Mother's Day. This of course does not count many meals eaten at the cafeteria at Cora, Auchan, Hyper U, etc.

sparkchaser

I need to understand what is going on in this thread: if I go to Paris and tip, will that upset the Fodorgarchs?

bilboburgler

For me the issue is are you bringing your cargo cult practices to our bismirched continent ;-)

fuzzbucket

So, if my espresso taken at the bar costs 1 EU, and I hand the server a 2 EU coin, does "rounding up" mean that I leave him the extra euro??? I think not.

vincenzo32951

>>Well, KJA - probably a good reason to
agitate for decent, living wages in the US. I think it is appalling and demeaning that anyone should have to rely on tips to make a basic wage, sufficient for normal living expenses, too.<<

Here we go. We need a good post about how waitstaff has to "grovel." No tipping thread is complete without it.

>>For me the issue is are you bringing your cargo cult practices to our bismirched continent<<

Not clear. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

bilboburgler

vincenzo ;-)

tell you what, guess!