As some of you know, I am traveling to Spain in a couple of weeks for 2 weeks and we are flying in/out of Madrid.

I am now down to the nitty gritty part where I am working on daily plans, etc.

An explanation as to our plan: we've found that sometimes we bite off more than we can chew when we travel, so my goal is to plan one "major" item a day and then just go with the flow. If we feel like doing more, then we will, but if not, we may just spend a day wandering, eating, and enjoying life. In some places, I haven't worked out a real plan - I'm either still working on it, or I figure we'll just wing it.

Here is the schedule:
Madrid (3 days, including arrival day): Take walking tour with Stephen Drake-Jones, attend bullfight with Stephen Drake-Jones, tour Palacio Real, tour Prado.

Sevilla (3 days, taking AVE from Madrid): Tour cathedral with Conception Delgado, tour Alcazar with Conception Delgado, take walking tour of city with Conception Delgado, wander around Barrio Santa Cruz. We are meeting up with some friends from home, so we aren't planning as much here - we'll just go with the flow.

Arcos de la Frontera (1 day, driving here after picking up rental car): Wander. No real plan.

Ronda (2 days): Wander. No real plan. Between Arcos and Ronda, we plan to visit various small hill towns such as Grazelema and Zahara.

Granada (2 days): Tour Alhambra (anyone recommend a guide for this one?), wander around Albaicin, spend some time relaxing at Banos Arabes (anyone done this recently? I think we need to make reservations?).

Toledo (3 days): Tour cathedral, wander around. (Can anyone recommend a tour guide?) Perhaps take a day trip to Segovia?

So the question is should we add another day to Granada and cut a day from Toledo or leave it as is?

Also do you know recommend any good guides for any of the above).

I'm wondering if we are making Granada too short or if we'll be happy to have more time in Toledo. My original thought was that we'd have three days in Toledo and if we found ourselves restless, we would take a drive somewhere.

Also, I haven't made hotel reservations for our last night yet - I realize this might be dangerous, but I thought flexibility would be good.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Sally

We were in Spain (as well as Italy, France, Portugal) last September.

In my opinion, while the white villages are very cute, there is not much to do once you are actually in them, and they are all pretty much the same.

Definitely visit some, but they won't take long, and you can probably cut 1 to 1.5 days out of that portion of your trip without missing anything....just stop at them for a few hours en route to other places.

I don't think you will need TOO much time in Granada, as it's pretty touristy, and not as nice as some other destinations...I much preferred the Mezquita in Cordoba to the Alhambra for a number of reasons, and loved the little town of Cordoba vs. Granada which is much bigger and touristy.

If you do nothing else, be sure to book your tickets to see the alhambra online before you go, or you might be disappointed...we booked at alhambratickets.com and were able to pick up our tickets when we got to town without waiting in line. We saw others in a big line (hundreds of them) who missed out that day, because they only allow 7700 tickets per day, and they didn't make it to the front of the line before they were all given out.

My advice? Your time in Granada is enough.

It won't take you more than a day to see Ronda, at the VERY most...there's not much there besides the bullring and the bridge.

Add Cordoba in. You don't want to miss it! It's grand.

Cut back on your time seeing white villages...you won't need that much.

Seville is quite fun to look around, but allow extra time if arriving by car...it's pretty hard to navigate...and dump your car once you get into town, you won't want or need it while you're there, it's easier to walk.

Here's a review of our trip...you can view the relevant sections complete with pictures.

http://www.flightbiz.com/travel/trav...europe2003.htm

We stayed in 2 paradores while there...in Granada and in Ronda. The one in Ronda was fantastic. The Granada one, overrated...there was a 1 star pensione called the American or something like that right next door to the parador, which was lovely, and probably a lot cheaper (and we usually stay in 5 stars)!

The Maimonides in Cordoba was a 3 star, but quite lovely and I highly recommend it.

If you want any other details, please write back and I'll try to answer.

Too much time in Toledo. Too little time in Granada. My rec: don't stay up on the hill in Granada, stay downtown where the stores and restaurants are.

If you like modern art, don't miss the Sofia in Madrid--it's right by the Prado.

Highly recommend the flamenco show at Los Gallos in Seville.

Also, there are some fascinating caves with cave paintings a few miles outside Ronda.

Also agree you should stop by Cordoba.

Sally-
I also like to not be rushed and actually enjoy myself without a strict schedule of major items to see. However, you may be able to shave one night out of the white villages- one night in Arcos and one night in Ronda may be enough. We left Sevilla in the late morning, visited Jerez and did some sherry tasting and arrived in Arcos mid afternoon. Explored Arcos that day then spent the following day driving around the villages. We arrived back in Arcos mid afternoon and in retrospect should have just gone on to Ronda. The next day we drove to Ronda late morning and had plenty of time with one day full day there. I'd definately try to see the Pilata caves nearby too.

As far as Granada goes I think 2 days is fine. We arrived mid afternoon and just wandered around the first afternoon. The next day we visited the Alhambra first thing (prepurchased tickets on their website)and stayed until lunch. Then we wandered around the Albycin the rest of the afternoon. That evening we returned to the Alhambra for a night visit.

As far as Toledo, I have to agree that 3 nights is probably too much. I would definately encourage spending the night in Toledo to get a feel for the town after the daytrippers have left. But we spent 2 nights in Toledo and this was fine - and this was also when we first arrived jet lagged and all.

If you could shave 2 days off the trip (Arcos or Ronda 1 night and 1 night Toledo) I'd consider spending a night or 2 in Segovia or even Salamanca. They are beautiful cities and you will get to see a very different part of Spain then in Andalucia.

I'd also definately stop in Cordoba on the way from Madrid to Sevilla (I'm assuming you're taking the AVE so it would be an easy day trip).

As far as a guide for the Alhambra I wouldn't worry about it. We purchased headsets that had numbers on it corresponding to items inside the Alhambra. So you could go at your own pace - a good option for me.

Hope this helps!

I agree, no need to stay up the top in Granada...the only thing you really want to be there for is the alhambra, and there's a bus that runs up the hill.

Thank you all so much for the replies. My hotels are all set for the bulk of the trip. The only wiggle room I seem to have is at the end.

It sounds like the pueblos blancos might not keep us occupied for three days, so we'll plan to drive down to Cadiz or Nerja if time allows.

It seem like most of you think that we should leave Granada at 2 days, except for weber6560. weber6560, why do you think more?? I'm quite interested in this.

Also, everyone seems to think that 3 days in Toledo may be too much. So I think (unless people think we should stay in Granada - which so far it appears not), we'll plan to drive to Segovia on the second or third day of our stint there. Does this make sense - we'll leave our reservations for the first 2 nights in Toledo. And we'll decide that first day whether to extend our stay to three nights and do a day trip from there or whether we'll leave for our last night.

benderbabe, I look forward to looking at your pictures. I have booked the Alhambra for the second day we are there. I think our entry time is at 9:00 or so. Although a bit early, that seemed to be the consensus.

artlover - thanks for the flamenco tip!
We plan to do the Pileta Caves, if we have time (which it sounds like we will).

CathyM, Thanks for the tips - I really think we'll take your advice on Segovia. I can't change my time in the pueblos blancos too easily - hotels set and car rented, but I'll add more destinations if it looks slow.

I really want to add in Cordoba - I just thought we'd not have enough time and would be rushing. So perhaps on the way from Madrid to Sevilla? I will need to wing that part.

Thanks again all!
Sally

Why Granada? Because I am a Granada nut! Seriously, it's probably because I've spent more time there than anywhere else in Spain. To me it seems a great blend of history and modern cosmopolitan city. I think the people are the friendliest I have run across. It's a very livable city and fun to just wander the residential areas out from downtown. Best tapas anywhere [and they are everywhere in Granada]. In addition to the Alhambra, hit the cathedral and the chapel, La Cartuja monestary, sundown at St Nicholas Square, lunch in the Albaicin, tea street, moorish arcade, dinner at Cunini, a great market, great churros behind the market.

I absolute agree with weber6560 about granada,its a beautiful city with so many things to do or see!! Walking around is just like a multicolored profusion of North african goods,if u like to relax walking and wandering around beautiful streets this is your city....by the looks,by the smells,it might have been a market street in fez or marrakech or some other North african city but its not,its europe!

but hey,Cordoba is a must see too.

"Give him alms
woman, because there is nothing as bad as being blind in Granada" old saying from granada.

Gracias a Rubens!

In thinking about it, I think we travelers can be divided into two camps depending on our nature and our itineraries. Each camp is equally worthy, and at various times we all are both camps.

I think you get a totally different understanding of most places when you make the second trip. The first trip we all are obligated, no, required, to punch our ticket at the "sights". This is a good thing. [with regrets to Martha] You couldn't go to Rome without ever seeing the Trevi Fountain [I was going to say Colesium but don't know how to spell it! Where is spell check when you need it?]

However, once you have done the obligatory, "big deals' you can relax, poke about the town, go where the locals go, and try to become a part of the local scene rather than the tourist scene. Shazam! The bartender remembers your name. Dang! You know where to catch the bus. You show up for dinner at 10 rather than 7.

Maybe on the first trip, Granada is a two-day town. However, I can assure you that the Granadinos are among the most warm, sharing, hospitable people anywhere and if you want a glimpse of live beyond the "sights" it is a great place to take a peek. You will be welcomed. See you in 3 weeks for another 3 weeks!!

weber,

What a great post! And I think very true. We are going back to Paris in May and our trip will be so different from our last trip which was a first becuase this time we can go to the Louvre if we want, but we no longer HAVE to because we've gone before.

I think we will leave the first part of our trip alone. I would love to put in Cordoba, but I think if I do, I will be rushing Seville. So I will go to Cordoba next time! I feel that there will be a next time, and who knows, it might be only a year or so away.

As to Granada, we are going to discuss further whether to do 3 Granada, 2 Toledo or stay in Granada for longer on that 3rd day and head to Toledo later in the afternoon. This is such a hard choice for us! We are staying at the Parador in Granada - we debated staying elsewhere for a bit and decided to go for it, but if we stay an additional night, we'll undoubtedly have to stay elsewhere because it's likely booked.

Have any of you been to the Arab baths or hammam in Granada? I saw some posts of people who were going to check it out, but not much. Would love to hear more if you have information.

Thanks again,
Sally

SRS,

Just a question - why do you need guides to do all of these things? I hit almost every city on your list and toured everything you mentioned by myself. You don't need guides to tour cathedrals and alcazars; in fact, in my opinion, it is worse to do it that way, because then you are being herded around like cattle and can't explore as you'd like.

All those types of places have audioguides for 3 euros that give you the same information the guides will give you. Just a suggestion.

I loved the white towns. I spent 2 nights in Ronda and loved it. There is more to do than that see the bridge and the bullring as benderbabe implies. I didn't even go into the bullring there because I had been to the one in Sevilla. You can hikes all around the gorge, there are palaces/old houses to visit, one of which has a tower going 20 stories DOWN into the bottom of the gorge, etc.

I agree 3 days in Toledo is too much. I'd suggest 1 overnight. I did it as a day trip from Madrid. I also did Segovia as a daytrip from Madrid. They were both lovely.

If spent 1 night in Granada. I got there in the early afternoon from Ronda, toured the Cathedral and the Albaican neigborhood etc that day, and saw the Alhambra the next morning/afternoon, then flew to Barcelona in the evening. I felt that was enough time in Granada.

Hope this helps. I have a trip report (still in progress) that I think you have been reading. I'll be finishing it this week.

Karen

Hi Karen,

Thanks for your input and thanks for posting about Ronda today - you make it sound so wonderful and just what I am hoping for!

As to the guide question, I only have two guides set up right now. One in Madrid which is more of a pub tour and one in Sevilla, but she's 19 euro for three short tours, so it's not a big investment.

I set up guides because on previous trips, I thought they might be nice to get an overview walk and add a little narrative, but you offer a good comment on being herded around - that is NOT what we want. For example, in Rome, we did fine at the coliseum without a guide, but I think one would have been nice.

That said, it seems popular consensus that I don't need one for the Alhambra as the audio-guide is pretty good.

And as to Toledo - no one has commented, but I just thought maybe for a walking tour.

I think we will try to put in Segovia. I really enjoyed your report on it. Perhaps we'll leave it for our last night. I actually checked my hotel reservations in Toledo last night and it doesn't appear I have a lot of wiggle room - so it looks like I will be spending 2 nights in Granada, 2 nights in Toledo and either my last night in Toledo or in Segovia, or perhaps in Madrid.

Thanks again!
Sally

Sally:

Wow, what a thread!

Your last post sounds perfect.

Remember, it's YOUR trip. Follow YOUR instincts...PLEASE

Sally,

Glad I could help. I absolutely loved the scenery in Ronda!

I have posted the rest of my report - Granada and Barcelona - if you are interested.

Karen

Sally-

Your trip seems to be shaping up well.

Not to worry about the wiggle room in the white villages - there are lots of nearby villages and cities (and sherry tasting) so there's plenty to do outside of Arcos and Ronda. Just outside of Ronda are the Pilata caves (paintings) that are supposed to be incredible to visit. I was very disappointed that we didn't have a chance. Or what actually happened is that my friend and I got there an hour before the tour was supposed to start. There are no "numbers" to take nor an official line. Travelers are on the honor system and there are limited amount of people allowed in at a time. The "door" to the cave opened a few minutes early and many people who had just arrived jumped up and ran to a line that had just started forming. Needless to say we didn't get in. There was only one tour left that day and it was either skip our afternoon in Ronda or see the cave. We were disappointed but I'll just have to return!

I think the idea of seeing how Toledo strikes you once you get there is a great idea. In Segovia we stayed at the Hotel Infanta Isabel:
http://www.hai.es/plantillas/?ht=30
It was one of our favorites...right on the main square and I got the room I requested with a view of the cathedral (where Isabel was crowned). You could probably even reserve a room somewhere and have no penalty as long as you cancel a day ahead.

I agree with Oaktown Traveler - go with your instincts taking guidance from these responses.

Have a wonderful trip.

Thanks all again! What great responses!

CathyM - I contacted the hotel you recommended in Segovia. The price is right and I only need to give 24 hours advance if we decide to cancel because we've fallen in love with Toledo. Do you happen to remember the room number?

Thanks again!
Sally

Sally, Please be sure to do a trip report when you get back. We also decided to splurge on the parador in Granada in early May & am anxious to hear whether it's worthwhile. It's received "mixed reviews" from other Fodorites. Also, I'd like to know about the Banos Arabes. We're trying to decide whether to visit the baths in Granada or in Jaen. Let us know what you think. And, of course, don't forget to tell us about tapas & restaurants! Have a great trip!

You seem to have some of the same interests we have (see some major sites but also relax and enjoy). I'm looking forward to hearing how your trip goes!

Sally -
My room number in Segovia was 209. It faced directly onto the Plaza Mayor looking at the Cathedral.

I noticed you also asked about the Arab baths in Granada. I personally didn't get to visit but my friend did and it was the highlight (other than the Alhambra of course) of her visit to Granada. She highly recommended a visit - looks like I'll have to return!

Let us know if you need anything else.