For the last couple of months I spent my evenings and weekends reading these posts. I learned a lot and tried to make an itinerary for our first trip to Europe, which will be at the end of August and beginning of September.<BR><BR>We are going to drive from Munich to Italy and back.<BR><BR>August 22-29 Arrive in Munich<BR>8 days-Germany-Bavaria<BR><BR>August 30<BR>1 day-drive through Austria and spend the night in Mestre, Venice<BR><BR>August 31<BR>1 Day-Venice<BR><BR>Sept. 1<BR>1/2 day in Venice <BR>leave in the afternoon for Florence<BR><BR>Sept 02-04 <BR>3 days-Florence<BR><BR>Sept 05<BR>1 day - trip to Siena from Florence<BR><BR>Sept 06<BR>1 day-trip to San Gimignano<BR><BR>Sept 07<BR>1 day-Day trip to Montalcino and Montepulciano - can both be visited in one day without to much rush?<BR><BR>Sept 08<BR>-drive to Rome<BR><BR>Sept 09-11<BR>3 days-Rome<BR><BR>Sept 12<BR>Leave in the morning for Cinque Terre<BR><BR>Sept 13<BR>1 day- Cinque Terre-most probably Monterosso<BR><BR>Sept 14<BR>Drive back to Munich where we have to return the car and take the flight home the next day.<BR><BR>I would appreciate any thoughts on this itinerary and also any suggestions on the day trips from Florence. <BR>I reluctantly left out Pisa and Lucca-which I initialy planned to visit both in one day- in order to spend one full day in Siena and one day in San Gimignano. Do you think we could visit both cities in one day and have the day trip to Pisa&Lucca after all?<BR><BR>Thanks <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>

Hi Claudia--<BR><BR>I'm afraid I can't help much, as I haven't driven in those areas. I just wanted to wish you well in planning, and hope you have lots of fun reading and dreaming! I'm sure you 'll get some more practical responses.<BR><BR>Robin

Claudia, Sounds like fun. My thoughts upon seeing this is that it would be great to spend an extra day in Venice. I think there is alot to see there and is just a wonderful place to hang out. On the Tuscany portion, I think you are saying that you are keeping your room in florence but are driving out to these towns and then back to florence. Why don't you pick one or two places in Tuscany to base from and then do your day trips. There are wonderful villas you could stay at and get more of the Tuscany flavor. Plus not have the hassle of getting back into florence with your car. That way you could make your way down to Rome without backtracking all the time. Otherwise it sounds wonderful.

Upper Bavaria is, to me, one of the most enchanting and delightful regions of Europe. Having said that, I think devoting eight days to the area is too much particularly since in doing so, Venice is slighted in your plans. You might consider dropping two days of the eight days from your Munich/Bavarian stay, planning on one overnight between Munich and Venice and extending your stay an additional day in Venice.<BR><BR>I won't have access to my German files until Monday next. If you'd like some suggestions for driving itineraries in Bavaria, Pfaffenwinkel and the Allgau, drop me an Email and I'll respond to you upon my return home. Those itineraries will expose you to 13 alpine lakes, the Zugspitze and its environs, a number of Bavarian castles, monasteries and Baroque churches as well as some charming villages and delightful, at times stunning, scenery.<BR><BR>I can't offer meaningful advice regarding your Italian plans other than to say I think you're shortchanging yourself by limiting your Venice visit to just a day and a half.

Claudia, I love your destinations but do not comprehend the timing. Why 8 days in Bavaria then drive all day thru the most beautiful parts of Europe to get to Venice--or back to Munich. Why stay in Florence at all? All of those day trips can be done from one location outside Florence and not have to worry about the car. Sorry, it makes no sense to me. You plan to miss the Lakes and the Dolomites going and coming ? You have plenty of time to do this itinerary well if you just reallocate the days. Frankly, I would skip Rome and give the CT 3 days, and then spend 2 days enroute back to Munich. Sorry, but you did ask. Good luck !

Debbie<BR>Thanks for such a quick feedback. I initially planned 2 full days in Venice but then changed my mind and decided to have more days for visiting Tuscany. <BR>But reading Wess' reply on 8 days being too long for Bavaria I'll most probably extend the visit to Venice one more day. <BR><BR>I also thought that staying in Florence and making day trips would save the check-out&check-in hassle. Indeed, making our way out and into Florence would also take a lot...<BR>My plan is to find a hotel that includes parking in the price.<BR><BR>But I'll take your advice and move out from Florence after the 3rd day and spend the other 3 nights in Siena and make the day-trips from there.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>

Bob, do you have a preffered route through the Dolomites and Lakes that we could take comming into Italy and then going back to Germany? <BR>

Hi Claudia,<BR>Well I thought I would also send you my thoughts. I live and work in Rome as a tour guide and have travelled a lot through Italy.<BR>Personally I would not even consider skipping Rome. It is such a wonderful city filled with history, passion, beautiful sites, amazing art works, architecture, piazzas, fountains, museums, wine bars, gelato shops and the list goes on. In case you haven't guessed!!! I love this city which is why I choose to live and work here.<BR>Yes the other cities you have mentioned are most definately worth seeing, each being wonderful in its own way.<BR>Keep in mind that if you are travelling in August, this is when most Italians take their holidays and many places are fully booked so you need to organise your hotels quickly. In particular in smaller places such as Cinque Terra.<BR>While there take the wonderful cliff walk between these 5 villages and spend a little time in each experiencing the difference.<BR>If you need any help with hotels in Rome please feel free to email me direct at [email protected] with your budget range and I would be more than happy to send you some recommendations.<BR>Hope this helps a little and happy planning.<BR>Regards<BR>Marianna

Hi Claudia. <BR>One question - I'm not sure what you mean by 'drive through Austria to Venice' - where are you starting the drive? It could be rather a long one, depending. For example, the rail journey from Salzburg to Venice is around 6 hours. Would a drive of this length be okay to you? What kind of average travel time do you enjoy?

Hi<BR><BR>I would also add at least a day to venice. In addition, you now have 6 days in Florence and Siena combined.<BR><BR>An apartment rental in Toscana will typically run from Saturday to Saturday. SO if you can arrive in Toscana on Saturday Agust 30 you can get an apartment in Castellina or San Gimignano and be right in the middle of everything. All you day trips and your visit to Florence can be made from that location. Getting to Piazzale Michaengelo or Porta Romana and dropping off the car is a snap. You can also travel the Chiantichignana beck and forth to Florence for a beautiful drive thru the Chianti countryside, stopping for a great dinner in say Panzano along the way. <BR><BR>Staying in Siena would be traficy and the car would be a hardship. Staying in the countryside would make the car easy.<BR><BR>I would skip Cinque Terre as adding a lot of driving for a very short visit. I find that not being in a place for at least 3 nights makes the visit too short. Last add would be don't stay in Mestre but come into Venice proper. Part of Venezia's charm is the lack of cars and the noise they bring. There is something so serene about Venice because of its silence (well silence broken by the chug chug of the Vaporetti. I cant imaging just spending 2-3 days in Venice when I visit, a week is never enough.

Do you realize, Claudia, that a nonstop drive from Monterosso to Munich should take about 7 hours Verona is about 3 hours from the CT and would make a nice stop.<BR><BR>Are you visiting Salzburg? Anyway, from Munich to Mestre/Venice it's 5 hours zipping on the Autoroute and about 5:30 hours through Cortina and the Piave Valley. I'd seriously consider a night in the Dolomites.<BR><BR>The roundtrip Siena-Montalcino-Montepulciano-Siena would call for about 2:30 hours driving + parking. I'd say that there would be enough time to visit both in the same day. But then, there's Pienza, Monte Olivetto ...<BR><BR>A direct, nonstop drive from Rome to Munich would call for about 8 hours. From Rome to Monterosso you're going to take 4:30 hours. If you add the 7 hours from Monterosso to Munich, you'll realize that you're making a 3:30 hours detour to spend a day in the CT! IMO this is just too much, specially considering you're short changing Venice, and the long drives from/to Munich. <BR><BR>Since I'd never exchange Rome for the CT (sorry Bob, I'm with Marianna hands down , and since the "price" to be paid to spend a single night in the CT is IMO to high, I'd skip the CT completely.<BR><BR>Finally, there's the issue of Mestre/Venice. If you've never been to Venice, do yourself a favor, spend a bit more for lodging and parking, and stay in Venice proper!<BR><BR>Squaring it up, my itinerary would look something like (nights spent at):<BR><BR>22-28 Bavaria (including Salzburg)<BR>29 Dolomites (many to choose from)<BR>30-31-1 Venice<BR>2-8 Tuscany (eventually Umbria)<BR>9-12 Rome<BR>13 Verona<BR>14 Munich<BR><BR>(if you're able to save some fro Bavaria I'd place it in the Dolomites ... but I'm biased

I would allow at least 3 days for munich and 5 days for Rome

Dear Claudia,<BR><BR>I would echo some of the comments here. Yes, add a day to Venice & stay IN Venice. Stay only in Florence for the 3 days, then the countryside. No point in staying in Siena, just as much car & traffic hassel. If it were me, I would stay in the Tuscan countryside for a whole week & do day trips into Florence. Yes, skip the Cinque Terre if you only have 1 night. NO, don't skip Rome.<BR><BR>Buon viaggio!

Claudia -<BR><BR>I think 'ppp' made a nice adjustment to your itinerary. Like others (your first trip to Europe, did you say) I would not skip Rome. I'd skip the CT if you have to cut somewhere.<BR><BR>My 'two cents' are that you might want to lose the car on your arrival in Venice and definitely stay in Venice proper. Venice Mestre will look like a smoggy industrial park after your visit to Bavaria and Austria and the Dolomites! The Eurostar train from Venice to Florence is so easy and you won't want a car in Florence either. I wouldn't camp outside of Florence for three days only to day trip into Florence. I'd stay in Florence with no car. Also, three succesive day trips out from Florence to Siena, SG, and elsewhere in Tuscany will be very tiresome. My recommendation, therefore, would be to take a bus to Siena on the day you depart Florence. Either overnight in Siena or at day's end, pick up a rental car in Siena and use it for the next 3-4 days to tour the towns in Tuscany, returning the car to Rome.<BR><BR>Lastly, assuming that flying into Munich and home from Rome is not an option for you, consider flying Rome to Munich.