Nonconformist

Although I haven't finally decided on exactly where near Interlaken to stay yet next summer (I'm leaving the final choice to my travelling companions), I'm fine tuning my thoughts as to what I hope to do there, and I have one or two questions.

1. Is it worth taking a daytrip to Lucerne? I know I'd only end up with half a day actually there, but I don't see myself taking a future trip staying any closer, so this would probably be the only chance to see the town. I'm interested in the old town itself and museums rather than venturing to the mountains there.

2. The Jungfrau trip: Has anyone been to the husky keennels at the Eigergletscher and is it worth a stop on the way up to the Jungfrau? Is it possible to stop off at Lauterbrunnen or Grindelwald as part of a day going to the Jungfrau, or should I choose between the former and the latter? I'm not sure that the Jungfrau on its own is worth the trip for me, for a whole day, although I'm sure my travelling companions will want to go there.

3. If I take a train to Kandersteg for the day, would I have time to see the Blausee nature reserve and Oeschinensee in that day?

4. Lake Thun: Can I realistically expect to fit in visits to Thun, Spiez, Oberhofen, the Beatus caves, and Hiltenfingen in two days worth of sightseeing? I'm interested in the following:
Thun (old town, castle, church of St Mauritius; building in Schadau Park with unusual panorama of town (open Tues-Sun 10-5); Schloss Schadau (art exhibitions July and Aug); art gallery); Spiez (castle and church); Hilterfingen (Schloss Hunegg); Oberhofen Castle; and the Beatus Caves? It works out as two places per day, which looks doable to me, but I don't want to rush,a and what's the best way to divide them up/combine them? Should I take extra sightseeing time from other areas (i.e. cut out Lucerne, Kanderstegg or the Jungfrau, heretical as the latter might seem to some)?

5. On a Lake Brienz day can I realistically fit in Brienz old town and Ballenberg open air museum?

I'm also planning a daytrip to Bern, but that looks straightforward enough; also visiting the Schynigeplatte and the older part of Interlaken.

As I'm not looking at going into the mountains all that much, I presume a Jungfraubahn pass would not be a good investment for me.

enzian

1. Yes.

2. Get an early start and you will have plenty of time to explore either Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen on the way back.

3. The train from Interlaken to Kandersteg is only a little over an hour each way. You will have time to walk to the Blausee and look around, then ride the chairlift up to Oeschinensee and look around there. The lakeside path through the scupltures can be covered in an hour or so. Just be sure to check the time of th elaast chairlift ride down (around 6 pm), unless you want to walk down. It's a nice walk.

Nonconformist

Thank you for your advice.

Ingo

1. Yes, definitely go.

2. no, haven't been to the husky keennels. You can do a round trip first via Lauterbrunnen - Wengen and back via Grindelwald. There is enough time for stops in all these small towns.

3. Yes, plenty of time.

4. Yes, it's doable. I'd calculate two hours for the walk around the old town in Thun. The St. Mauritius church is nothing spectacular, 10 minutes are enough. Don't join a guided tour of the castle, walk around on your own; the tour is rather boring. Schloss Schadau is a bit of a walk from the old town, but it's also a boat stop if I recall correctly. Don't miss the Scherzligen church next to Schloss Schadau and the Wocher Panorama. I would probably try to see Schloss Hünegg that day, too.

The other day is fine for Spiez, Oberhofen and Beatus caves. Interlaken - Spiez is a quick train trip. Then use the boats for crossing the lake.

5. Yes, that's easy.

Yes, go to Bern. It's a delightful small city. I found Interlaken to be surprisingly charming (in parts) and enjoyed the walk along Höhematte promenade, the Kurpark/Casino, the old church/convent/former castle complex. Also, Unterseen is very charming IMO.

I recommend to purchase the Swiss Half Fare Card for one month. Cost is 99 Sfr. and it gives you 50% reduction on all fares (train, bus, boats, most mountain railways/cable cars).

Ingo

Nonconformist

That's very helpful. I has already calculated on getting the Half Fare Card - it looks like the best all-purpose one.

Budman

In one day we went up the funicular to Harder Kulm and had lunch. Great views of both lakes and all the mountain tops. Then took the ferry to Brienz and walked around the town for the day.

bob_brown

I agree with the others on the answers to your questions. I am, however, a little puzzled why you would choose Interlaken as a destination and at the same time have limited interest in the Berner Oberland itself.

I have been to Interlaken several times and have yet to find much to do there other than eat in a restaurant, look in shop windows and visit the model trains. (The casino has no interest for me.)

The Jungfraujoch is a trip I have done twice. However, if you don't have any interest in walking to the hikers' shelter on the flank of an neighboring peak, the Mönch, you miss a big part of the adventure.

As for the dog kennels, if you have seen one dog kennel, you have seen them all. Most of the dogs will be earning money up at the Jungfraujoch by hauling tourists around in a sled.

Even with a half fare card, the trip to the Jungfraujoch is fairly expensive.
The round trip fare with the discount is 88.30 chf, which right now converts to about $75.00. (And of course you have to factor in a share of the cost for the half fare card.)

However, if the day is cloudy, I see no point in going because any views would be obscured.

You could hedge your risk by going first to Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen, and, if the day proved to be clear, continue to the top.

There are 4 points from which you can get a tremendous view of the main range of the Berner Oberland with out paying Jungfraujoch prices. These are:

1. Schynige Platte, which is reached via train from Wilderswil, which itself is the first stop on the trip that to Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen. (The train goes first to Wilderswil as a combined train and then divides at the next station. The front part goes to Lauterbrunnen, the back part goes to Grindelwald. You can change at either station for the Jungfrau.)

2. The terrace of the restaurant at the gondola station named First, which is the last station on a spectacular gondola ride from Grindelwald.

3. The Männlichen, which is a ridge that rises about 4,000 feet above the Lauterbrunnen valley. You have excellent views of the Eiger north face, the Mönch, and the Jungfrau. On a clear day, with a good pair of binoculars, you can see the building at the Jungfraujoch clearly.

To get there take the train to Wengen from Lauterbrunnen and then take the cable lift to the crest of the ridge.

4. The Schilthorn. This peak has a viewing station and can be reached via cable car from Mürren which can be easily reached from Lauterbrunnen.

The Museum of Swiss Life at Ballenberg is very interesting. It is spread out over many acres. The west entrance can be reached from Brienz by Post Bus. Brienz in turn is a short ride on the train from Interlaken Ost. Or you can take the lake boat.

Luzern is a 2 hour train ride away.
The distance is not that great but you need that much time because the train makes many stops along the way.

You can drive it in about half that amount of time.

Nonconformist

Bob: the specific choice of destination was largely down to my travelling companions, who do want to spend some time in the mountains. Im sure I shall have a perfectly good time visiting the places I've earmarked. Indeed, I think it's rather a shame if some people are only interested in the mountains themselves and physical exercise and not in local culture and history (as I gather from some other discussions), but that's their choice as this is mine.

I was planning on the Schynigeplatte in any case.

If I can fit it in, it seems a waste not to go the Jungfrau while I'm there (I'm sure my parents will think so, which means it's possibly one of the things we would do together), and that sounds better than the Schilthorn from various threads I've read here. I'm not averse to a bit of walking myself, or to seeing beautiful scenery, it's just not my prime objective. How long/strenuous is the walk you mention?

It may sound as though I'm microplanning this, but I do intend to leave the final decisions to the last minute, e.g. see what the weather's like before emnbarking on one of the mountain trips, and I'm quite prepared to drop something if I feel I'm doing too much, or there's something special going on when I get there or advertised in the tourist info and not mentioned in any of my guide books. I'd just like to have a rough idea before I go - aprt from anything else it helps in planning the length of the trip and choosing the place to stay.

I do appreciate all opinions.

bob_brown

As for the Jungfrau, the main attraction there is a view of the Aletschgletscher. You do not get a panoramic view of the high peaks because your view is blocked by the adjacent peaks and also by the fact that you are standing on top of the main ridge in a hole between the Mönch and the Jungfrau.

If you want a great panoramic view, I can recommend the trip to Schynige Platte. From there you can see the lakes on either side of Interlaken from high above the valley and you can see the panorama of the Berner Oberland itself.

One suggestion, try to avoid weekend days. We made the mistake of going up on a sunny Sunday, and by afternoon the return schedule was fiction. We mobbed up and waited for the next train down.

The rail company was far more interested in bringing people up with specials than they were in getting us down around 18:00 hours.

You can run into similar problems at the Jungfraujoch as well in peak season.

I have visited the outdoor Museum of Swiss Life twice. It is interesting but seeing it fully in one day requires stamina because it covers a large area.

The transportation museum in Luzern is well worth the trip.

When I go, we stay in an apartment for at least a week and shop the local markets for food like we lived there.
We have been there enough that we have gotten to know some of the local people.

If you are interested in the alpine culture, take advantage of the cheese dairy tour from Lauterbrunnen. It requires a short walk uphill, but you go to a working dairy farm and see the man making cheese. The guide we had spoke good English and translated for us.

There is a slight cost involved.

We got a look at the real thing so to speak and were able to sample some of the fresh cheese.

As for the surrounding villages, Grindelwald is too large to be called a village. It is a tourist hotspot and has the usual hotel and restaurant clusters. Wengen and Mürren have few permanent residents because they are mainly clusters of hotels with a few shops.

Lauterbrunnen has several hotels, but people do live there. Most of the locals shop at a huge Coop Grocery near Interlaken Ost or a Migros in Wilderswil, which is where we stocked up.

Nonconformist

Thank you, this is all veyr helpful. I suspect I'll be wavering over whether to go up the Jungfrau or not right up until I actually get there (g).

It sounds as though I won't be able to see Brienz the same day as the open air museum, so I shall have to think again about how to fit that in. Maybe I need to extend the stay (I was planning on 10 days), but (a) I don't know if I can afford to and (b) it will depend on whether my travelling companions will have enough to do.

I think I will probably skip the transport museum in Lucerne - vehicles are just something that leave me cold.

Thanks again.

PalenqueBob

Half-fare card is good but don't overlook the Swiss Pass which gives in a one-month period a certain number of 100% travel days and then 50% off on other days on everything except Jungfrau (25%) until last day is used up.

And in the BOB you can take some 100% covered trips that may make the Swiss Pass a better deal, such as:

Interlaken-Lauterbrunnen - cable way to Grutschalp - great cliff-side mountain train to Murren then cable down to Gimmelwald and then one of the most thrilling aerial cableways in Alps to Stechelberg, on Lauterbrunnen valley floor and postal bus back to lauterbrunnen - interlaken

if staying in wengen then wengen-interlaken is also fully covered on this day by Swiss Pass. And you need not buy tickets at every stage.

or wengen/grindelwald/murren day trip to Ballenberg Open-Air Museum, one of most popular in Europe, plopped in meadow overlooking east end of Lake Brienz

Wengen/Gr/Mur/laut to Interlaken, hop on steamer behind station to Geissbach Falls - take funicular there to waterfalls and famous hotel and back to home - go to Brienz, village of woodcutting fame then take postal bus to Ballenberg - all covered by Swiss Pass 100% except short Geissbach funicular - 50% and as Swiss Pass acts as a free museum pass on days of 100% valaidity the $15-20 entry fee (i would think it would be that much) would be covered in full by the pass. Retrace steps to home base - all covered by pass

or from Ballenberg take bus to Meiringen, home of Meringue and Sherlock Holmes fame - museum in tiny old church here and nearby Reichenbach Falls where Prof Moriarity and Holmes fatally tangled (funicular to top) and then from Meiringen take train to Innertkirchen to walk thru famous narrow Glacier Gorge - all free with Swiss pass

So your 100% travel day can add up - or use it on Lake boats on Lake Thun, etc.

But if only in the Jungfrau area itself - just Grindel-Lauterbrunnen area then the Jungfraubahn Pass could be the best of all - esp if doing Jungfraubahn train and Schilthorn cable.

But look at least at Swiss Pass - i've always had one and end up traveling more than i would expect - after getting to Interlaken i may later in afternoon hop a boat for an unforgettable ride on lake Thun just for relaxation - may not do if i had to pay 50%, etc.

Swiss passes are sold in Switzerland at stations, much like Half-Fare (only sold in Switzerland i think) but currently at about 15-20% more than outside country in my last comparison. In US www.raileurope.com originates the Swiss Pass (RailEurope is part owned by Swiss Railways) and i don't know why they are cheaper but the are now - next year could be different. I always refer folks to three good sources on Swiss trains: www.swisstravelsystem.com has a lot on lake boats, mountain trains, Jungfrau area, specialty trains, etc. - it's a consortium of various train, boat and lift operators. www.ricksteves.com has interesting stuff on the same as does www.budgeteuropetravel.com - on the home page you can request their free and excellent European Planning & Rail Guide which has a good chapter on Swiss trains - maps and special info on BOB - i always recommend them for Swiss Passes IME due to their expertise and lack of RailEurope's $18 mailing fee on Swiss Passes. Finally check www.sbb.ch for ordinary fares for train travel to see which scheme is the best for you. It may well be the half-fare card.

start early

Nonconformist

I'm doing my best to work it all out ahead of time.

I had been assuming as I wasn't going to be traversing the entire country every other day, the full Swiss Pass was unnecessary, but I take your point about things like boat trips, and also museum entry being included would be a real plus for me. Obviously it would be annoying to get the Half Fare Card and then find I'd spent more overall than I would have if I'd gone for the Swiss Pass. Speaking of boats, that's one thing I haven't managed to find an online source of info re pricing - do you have any ideas? Even just a rough idea would be helpful. I can't access the budgeteuropetravel listings because I'm not in the US.

PalenqueBob

The Half-Fare card is most useful for folks going to one place, say the BOB and then not taking regular train travel, lake boats, etc. but mainly doing gondolas and Jungfraujoch type trains.

With the Half-Fare card you should carefully calculate your expected train trips/ lake boats, etc. at 50% off vs 100% covered by the pass.

In most cases the savings would be minor over the pass which potentially gives you much more - not even having to buy tickets is one factor - but if you know exactly what you will be doing the Half-Fare card could be better and is easy to compare at www.sbb.ch

bob_brown

http://www.bls.ch/schiff/index_e.html

The above link will take you to boat schedules and prices for the Brienzersee and the Thunersee.

I have been through Brienz more than once. The chief attraction there is the wood carvers. We have found two fairly large stores that sell the carvings. Both are located along the main street which is near the lake front.

If you take the train/post bus to Ballenberg West, you will of necessity go through Brienz.

As long as you want to investigate villages and towns in the Aar Valley, let me suggest also a visit to Meiringen. It is one of the more pleasant places I have strolled through.

There is an itsy bitsy Sherlock Holmes museum there. Why? Meiringen was where Holmes and Watson stayed before Holmes and Moriarty had their famous confrontation at the Reichenbach falls.

Reichenbach itself is located near a hospital on the south side of town. There is a cable car on tracks that takes you up. To be honest about it, those falls, even with as much rain as the Berner Oberland had last summer, are not what I expected based on Doyle's description. Granted, I would not want to fall into plunge basin.

If waterfalls interst you, Trümmelbachfälle located in-valley from Lauterbrunnen, are spectacular. The water comes from snow and glacier melt on the Jungfrau. Last summer they were thundering. The falls are well recessed into the side of the vally and not visible from the road. There is slight fee to visit. The walkways inside the cliff are lighted and there is an elevator to take you up to the prime viewing points.

Also if you want a good peek at the culture, visit the Lauterbrunnen musuem. It gives you a good idea of the valley as it used to be. There is an English description that the lady at the desk will hand you.

The hours are restricted, however. Offhand I do not recall what they are.

One final note, visit the church in Lauterbrunnen particularly the cemetery. Each grave is a miniature flower garden. Taken as a whole, the area is a beautiful flower garden. This is part of the valley culture.

Nonconformist

Thank you for your help, Bob.

PalenqueBob

1. Is it worth taking a daytrip to
Thanks nonc

<Lucerne? I know I'd only end up with half a day actually there, but I don't see myself taking a future trip staying any closer, so this would probably be the only chance to see the town. I'm interested in the old town itself and museums rather than venturing to the mountains there>

This is a great day trip, especially on a day that's not great for hiking, etc.

The train ride itself is one of the most scenic in Switzerland - from Interlaken-Ost you board the narrow-gauge Brunig Pass train that putzes first along the shores of idyllic Lake Brienz to Meiringen where it reverses to begin the steep climb up and over the Brunig Pass.

The line is so steep at points that the train has to use cogs to climb and then later descend at safe speeds. (this is the only Swiss Railways (SBB) mainline train that uses cogs (rack railway)

anyway at the summit is the Brunig Pass and then you slowly descend towards Lucerne, passing some swell large Alpine lakes.

The station in Lucerne is in the heart of town - the two famous old wooden bridges just a stone's throw away (well they've each burned lately and are not basically new but they are still so dreamy with the turquoise river rushing underneath them - the old triangle pictures restored inside the span.

Lucerne is so compact yes a few hours will suffice to whet your appetite here

And if you want to mix a boat ride in then take a boat from Lucerne's train station (opposite it on the lake) to Fluelen - about a one hour cruise and rejoin the Brunig pass train line there

Service on the line is hourly; some first-class cars have domed observation cars (some Golden Pass specialty trains run over the route as well)

A Swiss Pass again would cover it all - train, boat, even Golden Pass train.

And Lucerne IMO is one of Europe's most dreamy and beautiful towns - gloriously set on the fjord-like Lake Lucerne.

Nonconformist

I guess that's a definite yes to Lucerne then.

bob_brown

I guess I am the non conformist when it comes to the Brünig Pass train ride. After driving over major passes like the Susten, Furka, Grimsel, St. Bernard, and a couple of others, the Brünig Pass is relatively minor. I suppose if you have not seen the "biggies" the Brünig is scenic, but after looking down on that same valley from high vantage points like the Faulhorn and even Schynige Platte, the view is rather tame in my opinion.

Because of slow traffic, driving up or down the pass is more of a pain in the kodonkus than anything else.

When the train stops at Sarnen, you may be able to get a good view of a small but scenic lake. That lake, however, is much more dramatic when descending the steep twising hill on the west side of the town.

Luzern is pretty town and the tourist office folks are most helpful. The bus to a stop near the Transportation Museum is close to the train station.

If you go to the transportation museum, you might be tempted to take the baloon ride. It stays tethered so you don't go cruising over the lake.

Also look for two displays rarely seen elsewhere. First there is a very good display on the different types of mountain cable lifts that describes the differences among a Zahnradbahn, Luftseilbahn, a Gondelbahn, a Drahtseilbahn, a Sesselbahn and a Stehseilbahn.

Gondelbahns are fun to ride, particularly when the wind freshens and the little cars start swinging in the breeze to the extent that the operator shuts the line down with you halfway between cable masts. You get to swing to and fro in the breeze! Better than any carnival ride.

PalenqueBob

<guess I am the non conformist when it comes to the Brünig Pass train ride. After driving over major passes like the Susten, Furka, Grimsel, St. Bernard, and a couple of others, the Brünig Pass is relatively minor>

well the key point is that trains don't go over the other passes you mention - but under them if at all.

The Brunig Pass train ride IMO is more scenic than the fabled Glacier Express, though there are a few places on that marathon ride that are more awesome - near Zermatt and before St Moritz - rest is ho-hum

I consider Brunig Pass one of Switzerland's most scenic train rides and since the Golden Pass train uses it they do too i guess.

And it's not just the pass itself, though when the train slows to a crawl and engages with the cogs it's always a thrill.

But rather the miles it goes along Lake Brienz and then the lakes after the pass, which i have a video of and can be seen for many miles, glimmering far below until the train reaches their level

And before Lucerne the train goes along Lake Lucerne

Maybe not as dramatic as the Bernina Express, to me Europe's most fantastically scenic train, it stacks up well with any other (regular trains, not Jungfraujoch go nowhere trains)

Plus the Brunig is only a few hour ride and lovely Lucerne waits at the end - a fantastic day trip IMO

Mimar

5. Absolutely you can see both Brienz and the Ballenberg Museum in one day.

And I second the Swiss Pass. We couldn't believe it saved us money, but my husband worked it out in Excel 3 times and it did. Plus it was very convenient.