The D'Orsay does not exist.
Apr 6th, 2006, 12:11 PM
#1
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The D'Orsay does not exist.
I constantly notice the Musée d'Orsay being referred to as the D'Orsay yet the Musée du Louvre is not called the Du Louvre.
A very brief French lesson is in order. The "de" or the "d'" is dropped when referring to any name in its abbreviated version. It is the Orsay, not the D'Orsay. The prime minister Dominique de Villepin is called "Villepin" in a headline, not De Villepin. (However, if you say Mr. it is "Monsieur de Villepin.)
If you want the exception that proves the rule, it is De Gaulle. It is always De Gaulle and never just Gaulle.
A very brief French lesson is in order. The "de" or the "d'" is dropped when referring to any name in its abbreviated version. It is the Orsay, not the D'Orsay. The prime minister Dominique de Villepin is called "Villepin" in a headline, not De Villepin. (However, if you say Mr. it is "Monsieur de Villepin.)
If you want the exception that proves the rule, it is De Gaulle. It is always De Gaulle and never just Gaulle.
Apr 6th, 2006, 02:56 PM
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Thank you, Kerouac--I twitch every time I read d'(or D')Orsay. But what to do when referring to a hotel in Nice called La Pérouse? If one just says the Pérouse, the foreshortened name sounds wrong.
Apr 6th, 2006, 03:32 PM
#8
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The definite article -- La in this case -- is always correct to include.
With proper names, drop the aristocratic "particule" -- the lower case "de" -- when using the name without a Christian name, the title Monsieur or other title.
Honore de Balzac = Balzac; Guy de Maupassant = Maupassant.
De Gaulle -- no lower case -- was not entitled to use the particule and his name is correctly cited as De Gaulle.
Long ago, a slight acquaintance told me that there is a law in his native Belgium (which, as a monarchy, still has a titled aristocracy) that imposes fines for the adoption of the lower case when one is not entitled to it.
In this case, his full name was M. de Kerckhove de Varenne van Veeren, I believe.
With proper names, drop the aristocratic "particule" -- the lower case "de" -- when using the name without a Christian name, the title Monsieur or other title.
Honore de Balzac = Balzac; Guy de Maupassant = Maupassant.
De Gaulle -- no lower case -- was not entitled to use the particule and his name is correctly cited as De Gaulle.
Long ago, a slight acquaintance told me that there is a law in his native Belgium (which, as a monarchy, still has a titled aristocracy) that imposes fines for the adoption of the lower case when one is not entitled to it.
In this case, his full name was M. de Kerckhove de Varenne van Veeren, I believe.
Apr 6th, 2006, 03:35 PM
#9
Are you all trying to sound superior tonight? People throught out the world use short cuts to referring to someone or something like the French do for Henri Bernard Levy, he is BHL.
Correct someone as the post merits it and they'll pay more attention but some attitudes do not work
Correct someone as the post merits it and they'll pay more attention but some attitudes do not work
Apr 6th, 2006, 03:40 PM
#10
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"If you want the exception that proves the rule, it is De Gaulle."
I'll bet not one person in a hundred knows what "exception that proves the rule" actually means. Hint: it is a usage of the word <i>proves</i> that does not imply verification.
I'll bet not one person in a hundred knows what "exception that proves the rule" actually means. Hint: it is a usage of the word <i>proves</i> that does not imply verification.
Apr 6th, 2006, 03:59 PM
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Whoopdedoo.
From now on, whevenever anybody says they stayed "at Agli Alboretti" in Venice I'll be sure to jump all over them.
And if they dare call me a doofus, I'll correct them: it's just all "fuss" without the "du."
From now on, whevenever anybody says they stayed "at Agli Alboretti" in Venice I'll be sure to jump all over them.
And if they dare call me a doofus, I'll correct them: it's just all "fuss" without the "du."
?
Apr 6th, 2006, 04:16 PM
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It always sounds strange to me when I hear people refer to the Del Coronado in San Diego as the "Del". The "Of The Hotel". What an absurd name! But as Cigalechanta said before, shortened names happen!
Apr 6th, 2006, 04:22 PM
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Because the name comes from the quai d'Orsay and the old Palais d'Orsay, torched in the Commune of 1871, whose site it now occupies.
But whether Orsay was a family name or a place I cannot say.
There WAS, as I recall, a Comte d'Orsay, the lover of the infamous Lady Blessington, who befriended Thackeray.
I think the illicit pair, who were generally insolvent, lived in some splendour in London in the 1840s.
(How the hell did I remember that? -- I haven't studied nor read Thackeray in 35 years)
But whether Orsay was a family name or a place I cannot say.
There WAS, as I recall, a Comte d'Orsay, the lover of the infamous Lady Blessington, who befriended Thackeray.
I think the illicit pair, who were generally insolvent, lived in some splendour in London in the 1840s.
(How the hell did I remember that? -- I haven't studied nor read Thackeray in 35 years)
Apr 6th, 2006, 05:04 PM
#17
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Here is an interesting story of the Grimod du Fort family and how they received the title of Comte d'Orsay Orsay..
the eighteenth century, the family of Grimod du Fort bought the land and received the title of comte d'Orsay. In 1957, largely due to the influence of ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orsay
the eighteenth century, the family of Grimod du Fort bought the land and received the title of comte d'Orsay. In 1957, largely due to the influence of ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orsay
Apr 6th, 2006, 05:17 PM
#19
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Thanks for the French lesson. Unfortunately it was written in English not French.
In English one does not drop a lead character with an apostrophe. The word is treated as a whole. When a word is written as "d'Orsay" in a foreign language it is kept as such in English. One does not drop the "O" in front of "O'Leary" or "Tam O'Shanter" when their name is as such. That's why the Musée du Louvre is call the "Louvre." It's a whole word as is "d'Orsay" when it's written.
In English one does not drop a lead character with an apostrophe. The word is treated as a whole. When a word is written as "d'Orsay" in a foreign language it is kept as such in English. One does not drop the "O" in front of "O'Leary" or "Tam O'Shanter" when their name is as such. That's why the Musée du Louvre is call the "Louvre." It's a whole word as is "d'Orsay" when it's written.
Apr 6th, 2006, 08:58 PM
#20
Original Poster
Anybody who wants to ask a taxi driver to go to the D'Orsay is certainly entitled to sound ignorant if he wants to -- or not, just as I learned to call that northwestern chain of department stores the "Bon" instead of the "Bon Marché" in order not to sound ignorant in Seattle.
