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The dialect in Barcelona

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The dialect in Barcelona

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Old Jan 29th, 2008 | 11:20 PM
  #21  
 
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it is not only an accent in andalucia. many of the consonants are not even pronounced, or are pronounced in an incorrect way.

if you want to duplicate what is most spoken in the USA you should be looking at S. America/mexico for your language improvement classes.

i think she should study where she wants to, but if she is looking to perfect her language skills in a short time, being surrounded by people who use castillian in the purest form is a benefit. This all rests on the level /priority this person has and her goal.

she will learn whereever she goes if she isolates herself from the other english speakers ( which will be the majority of her classmates)

once you have perfected or somewhat mastered a language, THEN you can move on to understand the various accents, which, of course, at an interpreter´s level is absolutely necessary.

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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 04:22 AM
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As Lincasnova noted the prnounciation in the south is not always correct.

Both slang and idioms vary from coutry to country and region to region. Accordingly the slang and idioms in Andalucia, might not be what is spoken in the southern, eatern, western US.

My father-in-law was born in Galicia and a sister-in-law was born in Puerto Rico and they would look around the room for a translator when they spoke directly to one another.


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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 05:33 AM
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Hanl...Granada is not Sevilla I mean, Granada University has also great spanish courses and it is reknown also for them. Sevilla is more on the private academies side and then the quality of the teaching would vary a lot more (there can be wonderful ones and others not so much) which is something you don't get to know till you are there and cannot do anything to avoid it.
It's the same in English, when we began to learn it..we are taught BBC accent(kind of neutral one), unless you are interested on American English. Then, when you have an advanced level (to say, university level) then you get to know the different accents : Scottish, Wales,
Estuary English... Many Spanish learners go to Ireland to join English courses because they say they have no particular accent when speaking English (which I don't think it is actually true but in any case it's not a difficult one to understand).
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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 06:24 AM
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During our first trip to Spain a thousand years ago, we were befriended by Spanish students in Barcelona. To the confusion of all, we would speak Spanish and they would speak English (we are Americans.)

One night of the Catalan students said, "I am taking the tub home."

My wife and I scratched our heads until we discerned the tub was the tube.
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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 06:34 AM
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LOL , Aduchamp ! I'm not at all impressed...foreign languages teaching in Spain at the schools has always been pretty bad. I remember when I was on the last year of elementary school (then I was 13 years old) my english teacher at school didn't know to speak english..she wasn't able to pronounce correctly not even a single word...so she didn't want to do any speaking activity because most of us (the pupils) were learning english in private lessons outside the school so most of us speak better english than her !!
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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 06:35 AM
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Kenderina, I wasn't passing judgment so much on the quality of schools in Andalucia as the idea that Spanish learners shouldn't go to the south in case they learn "incorrect" Spanish or are unable to understand anybody... I was trying to use my experience to reassure the OP that regional accents needn't be a big problem for learners of Spanish, as they weren't for me - not after a couple of days to "acclimatise", anyway

My personal view is that it's important for language students to be exposed to all aspects of a language, not just the "received pronunciation" that one hears from the teacher or from language tapes or CDs. Of course, it's a shock when you arrive in a city and discover that nobody talks like you were told they did, but I think that's an integral part of the learning process.

And I honestly don't think there's any harm in being exposed to different accents fairly early on in the learning process. I learned French first in the south-west of France (in les Landes, where there is a very strong accent), then Toulouse (ditto), then Tours (supposed to have no accent), and the variety of accents I encountered helped to enrich my knowledge of the French language. Same with Spanish - 6 months in Granada and 6 weeks in Costa Rica gave me a great insight into a couple of the variants of the Spanish language!!

On the other hand, I'm a linguist by profession and I've alway been fascinated by languages, so perhaps my positive experiences are atypical... But just wanted to put a different spin on things.
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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 07:58 AM
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You named it...you are a linguist
I understood your statement, I just was adding that Granada is also a very good place for learning Spanish for the quality of teaching (and Sevilla is not known for that).
If I were to spend a good amount of money on such a thing, I would like to make sure I'm going to have the best teaching and learning experience that my money can pay
Then, outside the language classes..yes, it's ok to go wherever. Though it won't be my first choice, I'm not the one who has to choose
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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 09:06 AM
  #28  
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Am I right or are there 4 languages in Spain and an extra dialect (Mallorca)

While Barcelona is a good place to learn Castillian from say a 40 year old I doubt it would be from a 20 year old as Castillian is no longer mandatory at school.

Pebble...pond...pond....pebble
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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 10:26 AM
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Castilian (Spanish)
Gallego (Combination of Portugese and Castilian)
Catalan
Basque-non-arayan language of undetermined origin

And then udner the Spanish Constitution:

The Statute of the Principality of Asturias, set up as an Autonomous Community in 1981, reads: "The Bable shall be protected. Its use will be promoted by the media and the teaching institutions, respecting in any case all the local differences and the willfulness in its learning".

The Statute of the Autonomous Community of Aragón, set up in 1982, read: "The several linguistic variations of Aragón shall be protected, being considered as elements of its cultural and historic heritage".

The Article 7.1 of the Statute of the Comunidad Valenciana, which includes the provinces of Alicante, Castellón and Valencia, reads: "The two official languages of the Autonomous Community are the Valencian and the Castillian. Everyone has the right to know and use them.". The old Kingdom of Valencia was set up as an Autonomous Community in 1982, and the Law for the linguistic normalization of the Valencian language was approved on 23 November, 1983 (B.O.E. 20, of 20 January, 1984).
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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 12:40 PM
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Bilboburglar, there are apparently several dialects of Catalan, including different ones spoken on Mallorca and Ibiza.
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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 01:13 PM
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Well, I think there is no problem to study Spanish in Barcelona; it's true that in Barcelona people speak two languages Spanish and Catalan, but Catalan is a language easy to Spanish speakers and people in Barcelona are nice, if you don’t understand anything, you don’t worry you can ask them to repeat.

On the other hand I think you should inform in your University in Spain about language of course, if this language is Spanish all will be easier, you’ll start listening Catalan in your spare time and this is always better.

Another possibility is going to study en other Spanish cities where people speak only Spanish as Salamanca, Valladolid o Madrid.

Bye,
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Old Jan 30th, 2008 | 02:19 PM
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Boarderbabe,
You mention that you want to learn Spanish that you "can use in the States." Specifically what will you be using your Spanish for in the States? Teaching Spanish in high school or college, or something else?
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Old Jan 31st, 2008 | 12:58 AM
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Almost all the Spanish spoken in the 'Americas' is Castilian. That language is the Official language of Mexico, Argentina and all other Spanish-speaking Countries in the Hemisphere, all members of Instituto del Idioma. As with other languages you will find variations among what you read and what you hear spoken. Such is also the case in Spain: In Andalucia, for example, it's said that people 'swallow their 'S's.'

In Barcelona, you will surely learn pure Castellano unless you enrolled in a course in Catalan. It may be an advantage to learn the language without regional variations.

During the Franco regime, languages other than Castilian were outlawed. But Euskera, Galego and Catalan flourished, at least partially because many people didn't like el Caudillo or his Policys. Speaking their own language was a way for people to express themselves
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Old Jan 31st, 2008 | 05:46 AM
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Franco regime was a dictatorship...don't forget that. When a kid is hit (very hard) at school just because he/she said something in a language other than castillian ,when someone goes to jail if it is heard in the street speaking catalan or euskera, it's easy to understand that people reacts against it. As they had to wait for long till they were able to react (almost till Franco died) , they overreacted in some cases. But 30 years later (now) I think things are getting normalized on the languages side.
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Old Jan 31st, 2008 | 11:54 AM
  #35  
 
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salamanca pronunciation of "fish" in spanish

pes-ca-tho ( more or less)

sevilla pronunciation:

pe-cao

.. in which case.. you wonder if they are talking about a "pecado" which is a "sin"

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Old Jan 31st, 2008 | 11:40 PM
  #36  
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I guess we also should ask about dialects in America. I understand that Cuban Castilian makes people in Chile laugh.
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Old Feb 1st, 2008 | 01:48 AM
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bilboburgler writes: "I guess we also should ask about dialects in America. I understand that Cuban Castilian makes people in Chile laugh."
It should be the other way 'round. I've found Cuban much more faithful to Spain's Castellano than is Chilean. But the Official language in both Countries is Castilian.

LinCasanova: a similar situation exists in French. Peche is fish; but it is also 'sin.' Some words from the Hail Mary: Prié por nous pauvres pecheurs. I got in trouble with two French Maitres d'ecole in the use of those words a long time ago (in a former lifetime). But that's a whole 'nuther story.

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Old Feb 1st, 2008 | 01:49 AM
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There's no such thing as correct and incorrect pronunciation, IMO. That just seems snobbish. Would you say then that the only correct English was spoken in southern England and that all you Americans were speaking bad English? The vowels are totally different to British English, not even starting on the different expressions and vocabulary.
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Old Feb 1st, 2008 | 02:06 AM
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<<Peche is fish; but it is also 'sin.'>>

Bad example. "la pêche" is fish, while "le péché" is sin, and they are pronounced quite differently.

Nontheless, French, like most languages has homonymns which have to be distinguished by context. There are many instances in English which could also be cited (sighted, sited).
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Old Feb 1st, 2008 | 02:16 AM
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i was just trying to throw in some humour that tends to throw off my students when they come. obviously, you finally get used to it.

and don´t get me wrong..

i ADORE sevillanos and their accent/way of speaking. They are the most cheerful of the spaniards i have met.

i love the gypsy carriage drivers..

anyway. good luck to all you (us)students.

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