lauramsgarden

Hi all, I am starting the very early fleshing out of our first (and most like only) trip to Italy. We have the air tickets - following fodorites advice flying direct into Rome and back from Venice. We will have 14 nights total. I've been reading trip reports and guide books but there are so many options it's confusing. The basics - we do like history, art, gardens, nature and of course food. I do worry about getting overwhelmed by so many renaissance art options. I'm hoping we can balance city/country, ancient and modern history and art. So here is what I am thinking as a starting point:
1. 4 nights Rome (it looks like one of those days could be a side trip to Pompeii?)
2. Florence - 3 nights
3. Sienna or nearbye smaller town (Chianti?) 4 nights. Big question with this one - I know driving is the only way to really explore the region but I'm not brave enough to drive in other countries, and my husband's health makes driving a maybe. We have done ok with driving in Greece, Spain and Portugal - so seriously, how challenging would the roads be and can we rent a car in say Sienna instead of one of the larger towns (planning on using train in between larger cities). I know this sounds crazy but it has worked for us in other countries recently, - the other option might be working with a local guide who could pick us up in the morning and show us around and then drop us at our lodging at night. checking out tours by locals this didn't seem out of the question.
4. 3 nights Venice.

does this sound like a reasonable itinerary? other advice - suggestions? I would love to get up to the Lake country but it sounds like that would mean skipping either Florence or Tuscany or both. I am open to all advice (trip is in mid May). thanks

kja

I'm sure it will be wonderful, no matter what you choose, but it strikes me that 4 nights is extraordinarily little for Rome (particularly with jet lag upon arrival), 3 nights is very little for Florence given the interests you state (though it could work), and 3 nights is IMO bare minimum for Venice. I would NOT try to go to Pompeii from Rome with the time you have; perhaps you could fit Ostia Antica in if it's a priority. Basically, I think you might consider shifting some time from the Tuscan countryside to Rome. JMO.

greg

>>> I've been reading trip reports and guide books but there are so many options it's confusing.
>>> does this sound like a reasonable itinerary?
When you approach planning as a mechanical exercise -- starting from so many days here so many days there (to do what?) and read millions of options (to do what?) then it is easy to get confused. You have no guiding criteria to determine how many nights are enough.
If you start from the objectives, the number of nights needed to accomplish them naturally falls out. If you have too many things to do within your time constraints, drop ones at the bottom of the priority or ones near the bottom consuming a lot of time. What you end up represent your top priority items achievable within your current constraints. You can spend endless amount of time spinning your head second guessing yourself if you don't have a grasp of your top concrete objectives.
The value of objectives is personal. Whether Pompeii deserves a slot in your itinerary depends on what values it brings in relation to the full day it takes to get there and back. For those with only a cursory interest, spending a whole day is probably not worth doing. For those who have studied the ancient Roman architecture and the classic Roman art, Pompeii and the Archaeological Museum in Napoli house splendid collection of the artifacts from the era.

kja

If only I found that to be true! That's how I end up planning my trips, but nothing gets onto my wish list if it didn't meet my objectives, so I don't find it quite that straightforward, instead having to make many difficult choices along the way.

dreamon

I think your plan sounds fine, although I might swap Siena with Florence just because Siena is south of Florence. You can never have enough time in any of these cities so just take the time you have and enjoy it. My daughter said to me just recently that she'd rather leave a place wishing she had longer than miss out on somewhere else that she'd really like to visit (within limits of course).

With regard to a car, I've visited Tuscany several times and never hired a car. Yes, that does mean that you can't rush around seeing multiple other towns in a single day but I like the fact that it forces me to slow down. Siena is a bit of a transport hub so you could take some day trips by bus (or train) if you wanted. Taking a private or group day tour is always a possibility as well.

JessicaBr

Hi,
If you really would like to see Pompeii, you should also go to Napoli to visit The National Archaeological Museum. When I was in Pompeii I was a little disappointed not to see many artefacts. Even the mosaics are replicas (the originals are in the museum).
And if you are open for suggestions. Maybe Sorrento, Carpi and Amalfi coast will be a nice stop. It's all close to Napoli.

bvlenci

Four nights is indeed not much for Rome, especially if you're considering a day trip to Pompeii. You might consider visiting Ostia Antica instead, which is the ancient Roman seaport, and right in the city of Rome. It's a different type of ancient Roman city than Pompeii, but to me it's even more interesting. It has ruins from a much longer historical period than Pompeii does, and it was a more cosmopolitan city. There are no guides waiting to recruit clients on the site, and it's a complex site, even bigger than Pompeii, so I would suggest reserving a guide in advance who can meet you there. They have audio guides at the entrance, but they were not very useful the last time I was there, because many (maybe most) of the marker signs were missing. (We found one on the ground.)

Ostia - Harbour City of Ancient Rome

However, it is possible to visit Pompeii on a day trip from Rome. I've done it; it's a rather tiring day. If you decide to do that, I would add another night to Rome.

You seem to be interested in Renaissance art. In Rome, I highly recommend several museums that don't get much press, but that have wonderful Renaissance art.

The Gallery of Ancient Art in Palazzo Barberini is near Trevi Fountain. "Ancient" in this case just means "not modern". This museum mostly focuses on paintings from late medieval times to early modern times, and has many real treasures from the Renaissance period. The palazzo has two monumental staircases, by two different great Baroque architects, Bernini and Borromini. You can get a combined ticket which includes both this museum and its sister museum, the Corsini Gallery, which is smaller but with a remarkable density of paintings by great masters.

https://www.barberinicorsini.org/en/

The Villa Farnesina in Trastevere, which is right across from the Corsini Gallery, is a Renaissance villa, set in a lovely garden. Some of the rooms have large Reniassance frescoes, including some by Raphael.

Villa Farnesina | Gli affreschi di Raffaello a Roma

The Galleria Doria Pamphilj is a spectacular Renaissance palazzo, near the Pantheon, which is still owned by descendants of the once-powerful Doria Pamphilj family. The rooms of the palazzo are stunningly furnished in the styles of various periods, and the family's art collection, which includes many Renaissance masterpieces, is displayed on the wall the way it was originally displayed. The visit includes an excellent audio guide narrated by a member of the family.

https://www.doriapamphilj.it/roma/

The Palazzo Farnese, originally owned by the same family as the Villa Farnesina, is now the French Embassy. The palace, in Piazza Farnese, not far from Piazza di Navona, is a treasure chest of Renaissance art. You can visit it on certain days of the week, but tours in English are offered only on Wednesdays.

https://inventerrome.com/index.php/e...alazzo-farnese

Driving is not very challenging in Italy compared to the countries you mention. However, if you don't want to drive, I suggest staying in a small town that has some bus transportation. Buonconvento is a much smaller town than Siena , and is easily reached from Siena by train (30 minutes). Buonconvento also has bus connections to other well-known Tuscan towns, such as Montalcino (30 minutes by bus); Pienza (35 minutes); and Montepulciano (about an hour). You can also reach these towns by bus from Siena, but you almost always have to change buses in Buonconvento, so you might as well stay there; it's been named one of the most beautiful small towns in Italy.

https://www.visittuscany.com/en/idea...ages-of-italy/

Another way to see the countryside from a base in Florence is to take a day-long wine/gastronomy tour. If you choose a small group tour, it will be more rewarding. These tours usually visit a winery or two, stop in several charming towns, and have a traditional lunch at a farm or winery. For people with limited time and no car, this allows you to see a lot of countryside in one day. That would allow you to devote more time to Rome. If you decide to do this, I would add two of those extra days to Rome.

Jean

I agree with greg. Figure out your absolute priorities in each destination and then determine how much time you'll need there. Decide how you want to divide the days between big cities and Tuscan countryside. One can say you don't have "enough time" in X or Y or Z, but that is based on their priorities and preferences, not yours. In a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Italy, there are dozens of places that are difficult or impossible to skip, but only you can make the tough choices. The good news is that you're going to have a great time no matter where you go and how much time you spend there.

One suggestion: When you leave Rome, take the train to Chiusi and rent a car. At the end of your time in the countryside, drop the car at the Florence airport and take the shuttle bus or a taxi into the city center. Driving is very easy (esp. with GPS), but do learn about ZTLs (zona traffico limitato) which are areas in every city and town that you can't drive into. They're pretty easy to avoid in the small towns, but you have to be alert to the signage because GPS doesn't include this info as it routes you.

https://www.italybeyondtheobvious.co...with-ztl-zones

lauramsgarden

This is awesome all thanks. Greg, I appreciate your thoughts. Honestly, we've used this method for the last five or six trips and it really works for us. I think part of it is that there is rarely specific things we feel we have to say (ok, except for Granada and the Alhambra) and so we choose areas/towns/cities for what they are known for and navigation practicality, do our research before we arrive, and then go with what we are in the mood for and how we are feeling. With some serious health issues it is more important for us just to be where we are and enjoy what we can - and if we miss a "must see" we miss it. We've had some amazing trips with much fodors guidance, and feel extremely grateful for all.
Jean - I love your ZTL warning. We ran into that in Portugal where suddenly we found ourselves in a pedestrian only street. It was a bit wild backing up through the crowd. And in Spain once the GPS wanted us to go down a flight of stairs! Oh yes, and there was the highway in Portugal that just ended and we had to decide right or left. It was an adventure but ultimately magical.

KJA - I love the idea of the Ostia Antica - we've both read novels where it featured prominently.
and Dream on thanks for the Florence/Sienna advice

and Bylenci - wow, thanks for all the links and ideas. This is exactly the kind of advice that helps so much. I'll update y'all after we figure it out a bit more.

suze

If you did just Rome, Florence, and Venice, you would not need to drive a car or have a driver. Those three would be perfect for a two week trip and could easily been done with just two train trips (Rome to Florence, Florence to Venice) and would allow you 4-5 days in each place.

HappyTrvlr