Neil_Oz

stormbird, what's wrong with a robust exchange of views? Why on earth should it end up "in tears"? I'm not crying yet, and if I do I hope someone close to me takes me to the nearest shrink.

Dukey

"British and commonwealth forces were fighting and dying 4 years or so before you guys were woken up by Japan"

Mucky, don't push it, OK?

As I recall there was this little issue about you guys having reached "Peace in our time" before somebody woke YOU up so don't get too self-righteous about this.

Mucky

Don't push what Dukey??

I am not getting self rightous, just pointing out that it wasn't good old USA that suffered in that conflict.

Peace in our time, indeed. And where were you when the Munich agreement was signed?

Preparing to flog us tanks I guess.

Handbags at dawn !!

flanneruk

"Sorry, but I just feel that this post has no place in this particular forum"

Fine. The rest of don't.

You're entitled to your views. Just as we're entitled to ignore yours.

audere_est_facere

By and large we're grateful for the US' involvement in WWII. However what actually rankles with us is more to do with the Hollywood re-writing of history which makes it looks like the yanks beat the Germans single handedly. Watching US war films you wouldn't believe that there were any Brits, Canadians, free French etc involved at all.

When this is combined with statements like "if it wasn't for us you'd be speaking German" our hackles do tend to rise.

Personally I am grateful to the Americans for that (eventual) assistance, but am also smart enough to know that it was in fact the Russians that beat the Germans and the European theatre of WWII was won by the time the Americans intervened.

Other theatres were not decided and we'd certainly have lost in the far east without the USA.

lobo_mau

"War is diplomacy by other means". No country fights a war outside domestic borders, with a high material and human cost just for friendship or kindness reasons.

nona1

Well, call me ignorant, but I didn't know we had a financial debt to the US from WW2. So anyway, nice that we've finished paying it at last and can put that money to use on other things.

Re gratitude to the US for joining the allies: I am grateful to every country that fought on our side, with no extra or less gratitide to the US. I can't help thinking that they should have entered the war much earlier. But at least they didn't just sit on the fence the whole time like the 'neutral' nations such as Switzerland.

The 'we saved Europe' and 'if it weren't for us you'd be speaking German' comments that I have hear spoken with genuine belief at times make me want to slap the speaker! I think that the US entry helped to hasten the end but we would have won anyway, primarily because of Russian action at that time.

caroline_edinburgh

The highest number of empty chairs are in the former Sovit Union.

caroline_edinburgh

P.S. Apologies for typos.

JimSteel

An interesting read on the perceived cultural differences between the USA and the UK in WW2 is highlighted by this book 'instruction to American Serviceman in Britain. (sorry for the long link) which I have read (Waterstones £5.99) This is reprinted from the original given to all GIs on the boats coming over. It states it clear that bragging and looking at another mans girl is not good. It is also very interesting to note the differences implied about standards of living between the two countries. The US was striding ahead in standard of living way before the War.

http://www.amazon.com/Instructions-A.../dp/1851240853

An equally interesting version exists for Tommie’s in France. However I have to agree with what most historians now conclude is that it was the USSR that truly won it on the back of 25 million missing seats round Russian tables.

degas

What was the interest rate?

Did the French government pay the USA back?

PatrickLondon

2% - the real cost was in the other conditions: reverting to full convertibility of sterling, reducing tariffs and ultimately (though that was part of a later bail-out package) surrendering patents on jet engines and the like.

As for the French - well, I don't know if they asked for or got any US financial aid before the Marshall Plan came along. I suspect not.

sunstar

>>>>"British and commonwealth forces were fighting and dying 4 years or so before you guys were woken up by Japan"<<<<<<

Yup that was pretty much the case. We did have forces in North Africa in early 42. We had Americans that volunteered for Brirish Military servie.

But the Americans did not get in the shootout in full capacity until 43 and 44.

The British fought the Germans forses 4 years with Fance as their allies.

Come to think of it, having France as allies , well, isn't that kind of like taking Pee Wee Herman into a biker bar to pick a fight with some rough biker dudes?

Sun( I'm just kidding. I can see the French travel people getting all huffy) Star

degas

Did the USA get paid back for Marshall Plan help?

walkinaround

jim...i've read that instruction manual for servicemen. it's a laugh and provides a good insight on this situation. it tries to teach the visiting servicemen respect for britain but, despite good intentions, is quite condescending as it tries to teach this respect.

Trudaine

"Come to think of it, having France as allies , well, isn't that kind of like taking Pee Wee Herman into a biker bar to pick a fight with some rough biker dudes? "

Kiddding or not kidding, ones can see Mr Murdoch's media have left lasting impressions in some minds...

JimSteel

Degas – Yes, by creating a prosperous and stable Europe the US was able to create the economic foundations that created the modern global economy which we have all benefited from over the last 60 years of peace. In addition, the US could put lots of nuclear bombs in Germany and the UK as well as lots of troops thus protecting its flank from the evil commies. Money well spent.

Pausanias

I'd regret seeing the valiant global effort to defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan diminished by bickering, so long after the fact. Each nation has its own myths about the war, probably incapable of correction, but it shouldn't be hard to recognize them as only part of the story. If we can afford to be magnanimous to our enemies, should we not be gracious with our allies?

logos999

Anyway, it's interesting to see how people that get all their "information" from the Discovery channel can have such a vivid discussion about what they think are facts.

Mucky

"If we can afford to be magnanimous to our enemies, should we not be gracious with our allies? "

We were !! we paid them back all the money we owed..lol

;-)

Muck