welltraveledbrit

Thanks for sharing your experiences, the crowds really start to ramp up in June, I noticed it at the British Museum today.

latedaytraveler

Hi TEXASBOOKWORM,

Really loving you report with your daughter's input. I just finished Day 2 - love that area of Trafalgar Square. You wrote..

"... we went into St. Martin’s in the Fields for a quiet look at its interior, nicely lit by light from the “warped window”—while I don’t like a lot of “modern art,” I am a big fan of what London seems to do in many places in blending/juxtaposing the new/modern/contemporary with the ancient. St. Martin’s old interior lit by this day’s light through a modern window is wonderful."

Very well stated. I wonder if that window was damaged in the WWII then replaced with a modern touch. Thanks for the details. Will go back to Day 3 now.

RM67

Enjoying this and also a fan of St Dunstan in the East.

texasbookworm

Again, thanks to all those who take the time to read AND comment/respond. It is encouraging to know if I've helped anyone or prompted a memory or given an idea, etc.

R made gluten free version of millionaire shortbreads--oh my yummy. She'd probably share her recipe if anyone really wanted it.

Lateday--yes, from the little I read it seems that St. Martin's window was damaged in WWII and only rather recently replaced. Nice (and I'm a "fan" mostly of colored glass in windows in churches that seemed designed for stained glass, but this one is nice)

irishface--Yes, I will post the tour trip report early this week I hope; I will post a note/link here when I do.

welltravel--I've been reading your post here off and on and enjoying your up to the moment reports. Brilliant! And of course you have given lots of ideas for more off the beaten paths sites for future visits!

Oh, and in looking at my pictures, I found at least one mistake in my details in the trip report above; on the Windsor day, I said something about us walking back through the "Dowlings"--I have no idea where that name came from! I meant the gardens and park area called The Goswells!

latedaytraveler

Hi again TEXASBOOKWORM,

I got a kick out of your description of the commuter chaos on the Tube at rush hour. Two years ago I went from Charing Cross on the train to London Bridge to visit the SHARD around 6 PM.

Commuters were literally racing from one train to another with great speed, all well dressed with gals in high heels - don't know how they do it!

Also agree with "....and vowed to never go anywhere on this trip again without a London map in my backpack!" So true.
Savoring this report. I will go back to Day 5 later...

thursdaysd

"....and vowed to never go anywhere on this trip again without a London map in my backpack!"

In the past I've always tackled London with a mini AtoZ - picked one up on arrival if necessary. However, now I have a smart phone with Google maps I may not bother. A phone was very useful in Venice last year, and if it can handle Venice I think it should be able to handle London.

TXDabbler

R here! Thanks to everyone for comments and advice.

I used the recipe from this website for the shortbread. I just used 1 cup of gluten free all purpose baking mix from King Arthur for the * ingredients. I also used a 9x9 pan. I also know this is hard to imagine, but I thought there was too much chocolate and would use 1 1/2 cups next time. http://www.barefeetinthekitchen.com/...rs-recipe.html

flanneruk

"I got a kick out of your description of the commuter chaos on the Tube at rush hour. "

I've never seen commuter chaos in London, and I've not read any descriptions of it on this thread.

London is a busy city, and the pace of life on and under our streets (with or without heels) is faster than in sleepier towns. Its transport system, at peak, might intimidate the more rustic visitor: but the millions regularly using it do so in a highly organised - and calm - manner.

If they're running it's because they know the relevant train's going to leave in 90 secs and life's too short to wait 4 mins for the next. That's organisation: not chaos.

latedaytraveler

Hi FLANNER,

"... Its transport system, at peak, might intimidate the more rustic visitor ..."

You forgot to add, "the more rustic AMERICAN visitor."

elberko

Thank you, texasbookworm, enjoyed your report, and there were useful nuggets of information for my trip.


The 2for1 deal is only good for a few of the LondonWalks...I don't remember where I saw the list, just tried to find it. London Walks DOES offer a discount card to take 2(pounds) off of future walks if you take a few. Also, n email to them from their website got me an answer to a question within a short time.

elberko

I found the link. There is one walk per day that is eligible for the 2 for 1 deal:
http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/london-walks

flanneruk

"You forgot to add, "the more rustic AMERICAN visitor."

That would be tautologous.

texasbookworm

Thanks for clarification, elberko; I, too, got a quick response from London Walks to a pre-trip email; I just didn't see the specifics about eligible walks in my pre-trip planning, so was sorta surprised; the walks were worth full price, in any case. If I ever go again with any plans to take more than one, I will buy the discount card after the first walk.

About maps--or lack of them--it was my own fault totally. One, I had no plans to be IN London that day, after Cardiff, so packed light and left maps at home. Two, we were traveling as cheap as we could on our phones and had no data-plan, so we were avoiding internet usage so didn't really have easy/cheap way to access map on phones. And three I just turned us the wrong way and didn't ask anyone.

Flanner--yes, I did not mean any of my scribblings to imply any commuter chaos. I did not see such. Commuters rushing, yes; commuters totally stopped in large masses, yes. It was, for me, only the crush on the sidewalks/pavements of the Strand (and somewhat on Regent Street) that were ridiculous, and that wasn't caused by commuters but by probably tourists and shoppers? I guess by definition I am a rustic American visitor, if by rustic one means a plain and simple person. I am not rustic meaning rural, as I live in small city, but except for the largest cities in America, public transport is not the norm, so I think I do pretty well to have managed as well as I have in several European large cities. And, as you say, in general they are systems remarkable for their organization and timeliness despite the huge numbers--especially London's. Experiencing such mass transit systems is one reason I like to take my students to large European cities, to give them a taste of such. One doesn't have to be rustic/rural to have little American experience with mass transit, but having such experience is important, I think, in broadening perspectives. I love my private vehicles and Texas roadways, but it's not the only way to get around.

texasbookworm

oh and flanner--don't know if you remember but you strongly urged me/us to get out in the countryside and take a walk, in my pre-trip planning questions/posts. Well, we did--and it may have been in Austen country and not the Cotswolds, but it was great and you were right!

janisj

you should get some sort of award for eliciting a "tautologous" . . . may be a first on Fodors

janisj

oops -- I meant to use a wink, not an alien

latedaytraveler

Hi again TBW,

"Day 5—Windsor and London— Kings Cross area, British Library with Magna Carta exhibit, and a play"

Wow, I had to take a nap after reading about that soooo full day. You mentioned:

"We had first walked through St. Pancras and seen the new art—the clock called One More Time—nice—and the statues—I love the bronze statue of the former Poet Laureate Sir John Betjeman,..."

That is one area I want to explore when I am next in London - thanks for sharing.

texasbookworm

LDT--Naps are for home--no rest for the weary traveler if following me around! Definitely head to those areas when you can.

Janis--a medal award trophy maybe. Ha. But I really do have to quibble that "rural" and "American" are not synonymous. But I don't quibble with flanner's comment on lack-of-chaos-on-London-transit. I didn't see any, anyway, although some reports I read about London Bridge station earlier this year made me glad I didn't have to use that station.

Oh, and I had wondered about how the closing of ticket offices was going to affect the ...uninitiated/slightly lost tourist? I found plenty of agents walking around in the stations, around the stiles/gates--all very helpful whether in a gruff business manner or a more friendly kidding one. No problems with "lack" of ticket offices in my experience.

latedaytraveler

TBW,

" It was more than the 2 miles indicated on what I’d read from station to House, but when we got to Jane Austen’s house, the lady there said we HAD come the shortest way."

Did you really walk the two miles to the house? I guess you did. Then ...

" We walked through the loveliest English countryside on public footpaths, through woods, over stiles and an abandoned rail way, past rape seed fields—so beautiful. I got tired but was ok; R enjoyed it thoroughly. There was lots of shade as I hoped and the air was mild. Very very nice. Probably highlight of whole trip!" Wonderful!

OK, then I read, " Oh, I forgot to say—we’d been averaging walking around 12 miles a day, with a couple days much more than that. That’s QUITE an increase to my norm!"

Wow!

R - I agree: " I hate to feel “tourist-y,” and guided tours always make me feel this way, but my experience with the London Walks has been only positive so far, so I would suggest them."

Mum & R - great report - thanks so much!

flanneruk

<i>"the crush on the sidewalks/pavements of the Strand (and somewhat on Regent Street) that were ridiculous, and that wasn't caused by commuters but by probably tourists and shoppers? </i>

Interesting question.

There's no doubt that London's streets have got a great deal more crowded (with pedestrians) over the past few years. My sense of it is that the growth's most acute in the West End between 1800 and 2200. I'm not sure crowds in the shopping streets around Oxford St have changed much: Oxford St has had Europe's heaviest pedestrian count for decades, and it really feels little different during the day from 25 years ago, though its back-street hinterland is a great deal more crowded - largely because the profusion of pavement cafes has taken a huge amount of otherwise empty space out of pedestrian use.

The huge transformation here is pedestrian traffic after 1800. The area used to be a desert at night: those back-street cafe complexes are now an immense pedestrian magnet till midnight.

Although Transport for London passenger count's up 30-odd percent over the past decade, better management and improved, more capacious, kit generally make the tube feel emptier than a decade or a quarter-century ago. Some stations (above all: KX/St P) have got a very great deal busier - but there, hundreds of millions invested make the crowds less threatening than in the 1980s, whereas at London Bridge and Victoria, the very act of upgrading is making the stations (at least temporarily) much more unpleasantly crowded.

The really interesting question is where all those people (especially in the West End at night) are coming from.

The distinction between "locals" (a term scarcely ever used in modern educated English), commuters and foreign visitors doesn't work in SE England: London's the regional capital and transport hub of a highly integrated, railway-based, economy stretching to the coast south and east and about 100 miles west and north, and people based in Oxford or Brighton pop into the West End of an evening almost as unthinkingly as they did (or will) when living in Islington.

A significant proportion of short-term foreign visitors are here principally to work, and as London's dominance of multi-country business services (from law to architecture to financial jiggery pokery) has grown, the evidence seems to be that such visits have grown faster lately than conventional tourism.

But a huge amount of the region's population growth comes from a kind or person you have to go back to classical Athens to find a word for: metics. These are people who aren't citizens (though under our system, most can vote and/or receive public benefits), live and work or study in an area, are fully integrated in the local culture and economy, speak a dialect close to indistinguishable from the local one, have little interest in becoming citizens and happily and frequently pop back to their parents' home overseas for a few days.

Whatever you call them, they're central to London's economy - as waiters, students, tech entrepreneurs, medical staff (from hospital cleaners to distinguished professors with Nobel prizes) and practically every other kind of role imaginable.

What all these groups share, to my eye, is a lack of ties. Self-evidently they don't wear them except as part of formal evening dress: but the West End has spawned a tidal wave of attractions (those pavement cafe-ridden back streets are all over central London these days) appealing to an enormous range of different kinds of people who don't need to get home before the babysitter's time runs out.

What's visible on the evening streets isn't any kind of uniform signalling "tourist" or "office worker". But the restaurants, concert halls and proper theatres seem populated entirely by the 18-30's and over 60's - and the speed many switch between close-to-native English and something truly foreign indicates metic or visiting honcho from Dusseldorf head office more than a package tour from Shanghai.

The growing attraction of vibrant real cities is a global phenomenon. London's just better located, better served by transport links (however much we all love to whinge about them) and has been sharper at fine-tuning its offers to evolving consumer tastes than the cities it once saw as its peers.