I am quite offended at you chracterization of us Neanderthals as a bunch of louts.

Og

I agree, ira. Neandethals were cutting edge 70,000 years ago. How soon people forget!

Amsterdam if you can trust him not to blow all his cash on dope!
Ibiza if you can trust him not to do ditto. on booze.
Berlin seems to be gaining a reputation as a music honeypot, if you want somewhere with some of everything.
London if you don't mind being overcharged and rained on.

Hi Orcas, another comment here got me thinking. Two years ago I took my now 19 year old grandson to Portland, OR for a week. The occassion was a family wedding which he really enjoyed plus seeing all the family members etc.

But I did worry about him getting "bored" at some point. One day he and I were invited to the Portland Rose Garden by a family member. Everyone else had either left Portland or were busy with work etc. So I felt like we were "dragging" my grandson to the Rose Garden. He was polite about it but obviously not enthused.

I will never forget that afternoon!! All of a sudden he got really interested in the roses. He finally wandered off by himself. We saw him bending over to get the aroma of the various roses, standing and looking at the scenery from the Rose Garden. I think we stayed twice as long as we intended to due to his complete enjoyment of this beautiful place.

So it is good to take teens to places they "are not interest in". Sometimes they learn to enjoy things they have not been exposed to.

BTW, the next day I took him to downtown Portland and let him spend hours in a computer store. I felt it was good to give him some time for his main obsession at that period of his life.

I would imagine this European trip your family is taking will work out just fine.

I keep thinking about this thread and I have another couple of thoughts in response to some of what has been said.

First, while we often travel with another family largely so the kids have companionship and we have let our son bring a friend to the beach for a week, we have said that our Europe trip is a family only trip. I think having time with just the 4 of us together sometimes is important. I agree with the poster who said it is sometimes easier for a kid to relax with his family when others aren't around. I'm not saying we never bring a friend, just not on every trip.

Also,(and I'm sure this was Orcas' plan), we don't cater exclusively to any member of the family. In planning our London trip, for example, we are going the rock n'roll tour for one son, to the theatre for another, and everyone will come with me for a visit to the British Museum and British Library. I'm sure they will enjoy it, but it wouldn't be anyone else's pick. We compromise and choose activities accordingly and all learn from it. Sometimes you never know what will be of interest to whom....keeps its interesting.

We did Scotland with our 16 year old son and stayed in a nice place north of Edinburgh from which we could do day trips. It had a lot of sporting activities and my son had a great time riding ATVs through Burnham Wood. He had just finished Macbeth in school and was quite enthused about the whole thing. Also - and I don't want to hear about this - he was thrilled that we let him order beer at a pub and loved the tour of the Famous Grouse distillery, complete with tastings.

We have traveled with him quite a bit and he has an okay tolerance for the museums as long as it includes a trip to the gift shop.

These ideas can really be used in any location. I try to think of things he will enjoy telling his friends about when we get home. Try to chose a location that would make for easy airline connections to the location and then again home.

I know a family that allows each family member to plan one day. My son is now a member of this family (he married in)... so in Ireland he picked a day at the brewery. They really seem to enjoy it.

You could try Nice--lots of lively kids rollerblading along the Promenade des Anglais, good nightlife, some live music. Or Paris, where he could do a Segway tour and then the Friday-night mass rollerblading trip that attracts around 10,000.

This supposes, of course, that your sun rollerblades. If not, skateboarding comes to mind...

While I would have been thrilled if my parents had taken me on any vacation aside from visiting grandparents at your son's age, he is obviously just at "that age." Many people have given great ideas, but I remember being attached to my friends when I was 16. ARe any of his friends tolerable? Would any parents be willing to pay for an airplane ticket so he could "relate to someone else?" I think Paris is a wonderful city but I didn't see it through the eyes of a 16 year old. I have also heard that Prague is pretty cool.

Thanks for all the ideas. I now realize we could find plenty of things to do that would interest our son if we stick to the Netherlands and nearby. Amsterdam looks full of music and sights of interest.

Our son prefers to go to Italy. He's never been to southern Europe and likes the idea of going somewhere different and sunny. He is interested in seeing Rome, too, as he is familiar with it from school and movies.

We actually would prefer Italy, too, for the sunshine and liveliness. HOWEVER, the thought of losing another day traveling is not inspirational. We might stick to northern Europe to make the best use of our very limited time. I know we would enjoy Amsterdam and we have friends in Brussels. We have to decide soon as we need to lock up the tickets.

We have thought about letting our son bring a friend, as some of you have suggested, but have decided against it, partly for cost, but also partly for all the reasons against that have been mentioned. Our trip will partly be a family trip, seeing the little cousins. Our son is more relaxed when with us alone. When with his friends, he is too concerned about "cool" sometimes, and might focus on them instead of on the family.

We are hoping to go frequent flier, but it will eat up a lot of points, as few flights are currently available with seats at 50,000 miles, but we can get them at 80,000, if there are seats left on the airplane.... This may also be a factor in our choice. Decisions, decisions.

My Mom suggests we put off the trip to when we have more time, but we have other ideas of where to go when we have more time....It's a big world!

I should not complain about having this decision to make! I appreciate all of your help. Thanks. I will let you know what we decide to do and post a trip report.

I look forward to your report--have a wonderful time.

Orcas, I don't have one of those teenagers but I was one of those teenagers! My airline-parents took my two older brothers (total guitar-heads, too!)and me on great trips, some of which we were not interested in at first. Many of the suggestions here are right on target.

As for us, we loved cities or beach areas (Amsterdam, Paris, Cote d'azur, anywhere in Italy, Madrid, Sevilla, Costa del Sol, many parts of Germany) more than rural areas. There is so much to do. We got away from "the parents" and went to flea markets, hung out in student areas, and got to go out at night to hear music or just go to the movies (all easier, I admit, with siblings/friends along).

My parents gave us choices but didn't completely cater to us. Some things we just had to do, and often ended up, as many posters here have said, enjoying them besides ourselves. And our parents often ended up liking things we suggested, too.

In Spain, we learned about the "art" of drinking wine with a meal (I am not advocating you give alcohol to your son, that's up to you and the laws of the country, of course!), a good life-lesson, I think.

Those trips, filled with arguments and frustrations as well as amazing moments, are what have bonded us as a family. I applaud you for taking your son on these trips. You seem like great parents.

You know, my first trip out of the country was with my parents at 16. I was as Neanderthalish as I was allowed to be in a strict family but even though I grumbled about being dragged through too many cathedrals, I can date my wanderlust to that trip so long ago. What a gift.

He'll appreciate this trip, trust me.

I am also Mom to a 16-year-old guitarist AND percussionist. We should start a club!

I totally agree with the doing things for the kid. Especially since it sounds like you make this trip occasionally. Why not do things that fit your family at the moment?

I just took several musicians to London and we loved it. I am never a fan of Hard Rock Cafes, although we went to the original in London and it was phenomental. We went to the vault and saw some original lyrics by John Lennon. I even got to hold a trumpet that belonged to Miles Davis. It was great. And the kids loved it too! We spent time later at Covent Garden in the market. That was a great bargain time for all of us. Since it's an open-air, it didn't seem too much like shopping!

And, FYI, we just took a short trip to Memphis, TN. We've done this many, many times and really wanted something different. We toured the Gibson guitar factory and Sun records. Between this and Beale Street, (where you can find another, less interesting Hard Rock!) I can highly recommend this. Since Memphis is an International Airport, maybe you could work it in?

Finally, I would try to stay in some hostels and consider a short-term Eurail pass. We have some friends whose kids are a bit older. They have traveled Europe and this is how they discovered hostels. I think that Neanderthal is probably old enough to get bit by the travel bug this way. All of our friends kids (young college age) have raved about Prague. If young N. wants to travel this way in the future, it could be an excellent way to start. My 20 year-old will be in Amsterdam in a few weeks. We can try to post again with her views.

And, I forgot another London jewel. Royal Albert Hall. Have him get into the history of it before you go. Any musician who loves his craft will enjoy this. You can certainly go visit. The exterior is extraordinary. Hopefully, there will be something -- anything -- playing while you are there. Also, London theater in general is wonderful. Get a ticket to something you might all enjoy (my kids loved Mamma Mia!). If you can swing it, sit near the orchestra pit so he can see the working musicians as well as the action on the stage.

We're making progress here! I couldn't get any tickets to Rome at all, so that decision was made for me. We will be flying in and out of London, due to frequent flier necessity, and will pick up a cheapie flight to the Netherlands from there. (The flight is dirt cheap the taxes tres cher!)

We'll be staying a few days with family and have the rest of the time to explore on our own. We'll have to decide between spending time in England or more time on the continent. In England, we could visit Bath and Stonehenge, which could substitute for Rome . Thanks for the tips on sights for the musically inclined. I wouldn't have thought of like the Royal Albert Hall, the Hard Rock Cafe and going on a Rock and Roll tour. Our son would really enjoy those activities and so would we! (We've been to London once and caught some of other famous sights.)

And I'd love to see a show. Bballmama, I've wanted to see "Mama Mia" for a long time, and we have tickets for the traveling production in Seattle next month! Can't wait!

Or we could spend time getting to know Amsterdam better and visiting other sights in the Netherlands and Belgium. Ghent looks beautiful in the photos on the internet, and Bruges looks picturesque with all the canals.

I will try to include my son in the planning, once I'm more clear on the choices. For me, the planning is almost as much fun as the trip, as I learn so much and also have a lot more time to savor it, which is all the more reason to include him! The trip goes by all too fast!

How about Liverpool? In addition to seeing where the Beatles were born, there is a really interesting Maritime Museum, which I think a 16 yr old male would prefer to Stonehenge and Bath. Or Edinburgh is great.

I would highly recommend anywhere in Ireland for a 16 year old musician. Lively music scene, impromptu in pubs, etc, and the Irish are so friendly, he could probably sit in somewhere.

I mention these as not too far out of the way if flying into London and going to Netherlands. But the Amalfi Coast is unforgettable. If you can't fit it into this trip, you have to go there sometime.

The poster who suggested you all stay in hostels had a good idea if you are game enough to do it. Some hostels have "family rooms" that perhaps you and your spouse could rent, then your son could bunk in the guys dorm.

You would meet 20somethings at breakfast and hear what places they enjoyed seeing. Maybe some might even include your son on a day trip. Start reading up in "Let's Go" and "Lonely Planet" for details on good hostels, as they vary a lot in quality.

Those books also list other places of interest to the young adult age group.

Since London is still on your list: I enjoyed "The Empress of Russia" in north London. The pub was upstairs with various music groups. Other acts were stories and jokes. It was more on the acoustic/folk side, but not at all cutesy.

Someone else commented that they weren't recommending you buy your son a drink. Of course, we the Fodors board don't know your son or any extenuating circumstances. But in general, I would question why not. If it is legal in the country you are visiting, buying him a drink is not going to hurt him and it might help put alcohol in a less mysterious perspective for him. Just my opinion.

Prague has a PHENOMENAL music scene, if you can make it here with your son. I am a 19 year old American student studying here for the year, and this city has an amazing night life. I'm sure your son would love all the choices here.

If you do decide to visit Prague, I would recommend staying in Kolej Komenskeho. This is the "International Student" dormitory for Charles University. The Kolej rents out Private rooms for between 10 and 15 USD per night. The college student atmosphere would be enjoyable for your son, and the prices are amazing. The Kolej is only a 15/20 minute tram ride from the city center, and a 7 minute walk to Prague Castle.

Either way, I hope your family has an amazing trip, I want to go to the Netherlands someday!

Ok, well I am 20 years old, and I have to say that as a younger teen, I would have seriously loved to go anywhere out of the country. And being a very large music person, I have to say that two places stood out to me. 1.) Iceland. They have so much diverse music there, it's really really neat. I'm so interested in Iceland, that I'll be heading there in January. And Reykjavik is really a neat place. 2.) London. At least he'll understand what everyone is saying, they have really interesting styles, that he will probably like, and there are a lot of different music things going on, that I know I personally would like, as I play the guitar as well so I hope that helps. I know Iceland isn't considered very often, but there is a LOT of music there. Hope that helps.