Taking 17 yo granddaughter to Italy and Paris-need ideas
Sep 17th, 2018, 08:13 PM
#21
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If any of your are interested in fashion the Yves St. Laurent museum might be of interest to you. It's in his personal residence in the 16th. My friend and I were there shortly after it opened, last October, and there is a huge amount of his work exhibited there. Very interesting, gorgeous clothes, and it showed how his work evolved over the years. There also is a new perfume museum that we wanted to get to, and somehow didn't.
https://musee-parfum-paris.fragonard.com/
https://musee-parfum-paris.fragonard.com/
Sep 18th, 2018, 07:47 AM
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I'd still suggest that Switzerland and the awesome high Alps could be a great stop Venice to Paris - Interlaken area:
https://www.google.com/search?q=jung...h=536&dpr=1.75
Something different and can be tons of fun doing easy hikes - taking thrilling mountain trains and aerial gondolas, etc.
https://www.google.com/search?q=jung...h=536&dpr=1.75
Something different and can be tons of fun doing easy hikes - taking thrilling mountain trains and aerial gondolas, etc.
Sep 18th, 2018, 08:25 AM
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I would consider either staying in Florence and taking a day trip to Siena, or staying in Siena and taking a day trip to Florence. They're fairly close together, and well-connected by frequent buses. This would save you one change of hotels, and give you a day or two in the city you prefer.
I also wouldn't go to the Cinque Terre in the summer, but if you really must, I would plan on hiking the high trails, where most of the mass tourism visitors don't venture. However, you need decent hiking shoes for these trails, and, being "high trails", there is a good deal of climbing involved. Several of the lower trails have been closed for the last seven years due to the risk of landslides, and the remaining two lower trails are often as crowded as the Long Island Expressway at rush hour. For this reason, I recommend staying in Monterosso or Vernazza, so you would have a chance at hitting one of the lower trails before the tour buses arrive.
To give you an idea, take a look at this:
https://genova.repubblica.it/cronaca...ti_-123899365/
The photo, and especially the video, will give you an idea. Obviously, because of the subject matter (Revolt against badly behaved tourists in the Cinque Terre) they don't show it when all is quiet. I probably would plan to stay there only two nights. That would give you one evening and one early morning without the day trippers, and with good light for photographs, and one entire day to hike the high trails. This would give you another day to spend elsewhere.
Palenq, my American cousins visited the Louvre a few years ago in the summer. They couldn't get anywhere near the Mona Lisa, but they got a shot of it by holding their iPhones above the heads of the crowd in front of them. I would suggest trying to see Leonardo's John the Baptist, which is also at the Louvre. It was being restored a few years ago, but should be back by now, more brilliant than ever. In my opinion it's his masterpiece, with an equally enigmatic smile as the Mona Lisa. (She's known as La Giocanda in Italy.) I saw John the Baptist when it was on loan in Milan, before it was restored.
Actually, I agree that the Louvre may not be the best museum visit for your group. It's one of those museums, like the Vatican Museums, or the Uffizi in Florence, that's best visited in mid-January. I agree that the D'Orsay, which is also often quite crowded, but a more manageable size, is probably a better choice. I also like the Rodin Museum, which has a very nice sculpture garden, with a café and lawn chairs.
In Florence, I don't recommend the Uffizi Gallery unless one of your group has a very specialized interest in Italian Renaissance painting mostly of a religious nature, as the collection is heavily focused on that period and many of the works displayed were originally in churches. It's also a huge museum. My daughter and I once spent seven hours there, over two days, and still saw only part of the collection. The Bargello Museum is the sister of the Uffizi, and has primarily a collection of sculpture, including works by Michelangelo, Donatello, and other great masters. The Museum of the Duomo is also very interesting and contains many great works that were originally in the Duomo, including, again, those of Michelangelo and Donatello. Donatello's Mary Magdalene (in the Duomo Museum) is one of my favorite sculptures of all time. His David, in the Bargello, dare I say it, appeals to me more than Michelangelo's David.
I think one of the best ways to appreciate Renaissance art in Florence is to visit some of the great church/museums, where you can see the art displayed as it was meant to be seen. The Museum of San Marco, once a convent, has the monks' cells gloriously decorated by frescoes by the Beato Angelico (known as Fra Angelico in the US). The Church of Santa Maria del Carmine has several beautifully decorated chapels, including the Brancacci Chapel, mostly decorated by Masaccio, with the Expulsion from Paradise, one of his great masterpieces. The Basilica of Santa Maria Novella has many great Renaissance masterpieces, including the Tornabuoni Chapel, decorated by frescoes from the studio of the Ghirlandaio, where the young Michelangelo was an apprentice. Some art experts believe that some of the painting of these frescoes is his work, including a boy who is thought to be a self-portrait. The last time I was in Florence, there was a volunteer giving free tours. We took the tour, which was very interesting. The volunteer guide said they also offered tours in English. However, I don't think you can always expect to find a guide available, especially an English-speaking one.
Another visit that would probably appeal to some of your group is to the Officina Profumo Farmaceutica di Santa Maria Novella, a medieval pharmacy that was once where the monks of Santa Maria Novella sold their concoctions. Now it's operated by a private group that sells all sorts of creams, lotions and cologne waters, and some of the original concoctions of the monks. Many of the furnishing are original. They also have a very nice tea room. Whenever I'm in Florence, I pick up some of my favorite lotion, the Crema Fluida Relax, a very light (and lightly scented) body lotion that's non-greasy and suitable especially in the summer.
If you are insistent on visiting the Vatican Museums and Sistine Chapel, I suggest you go on a Friday evening, when it's much less crowded, and also less hot and humid. (There is almost no air conditioning there, and the crowds in summer are like those in the photo of the Cinque Terre.) If you can't go on the Friday evening, I would get one of the early entry tickets. These are offered by private groups, at a very high price, but the Vatican Museums offers a less expensive early-entry.-with-breakfast option. This doesn't include a guided tour, but it includes an audio guide, and, to be honest, I prefer to be independent in that museum, so I can spend more time on the things that interest me. If you do the early entry, make a beeline to the Sistine Chapel as soon as you're free of the breakfast, before the hordes arrive. Then go back to see the rest of the things you want to see. I highly recommend the Egyptian collection, and the Etruscan Collection (not open on Friday evenings). My granddaughter (12 years old) said she could spend two weeks in the Egyptian rooms. She liked it better than the Sistine Chapel.
In Rome, some of the delightful uncrowded museums are Palazzo Massimo alle Terme, the Villa Farnesina, the Capitoline Museums, the Galleria Doria Pamphilj, and the Capitoline Museums. The Doria Pamphilj Gallery is especially interesting even to people who are not much into art. It's a Renaissance palazzo still owned,and partly inhabited, by descendants of the powerful Doria Pamphilj family. The family's art collection, with some priceless treasures and some paintings of little interest, is displayed on the walls as it was originally. The rooms are lavishly furnished in period style, and there is an excellent audio guide narrated by a member of the family. They also have period musical entertainment some days. (The Vatican Museums also has musical entertainment at some of the Friday night openings.)
In Venice, some of the better uncrowded visits are to the Ca' Rezzonico, a lavish palazzo with some art displayed, especially temporary exhibits; and the Scuola Grande di San Rocco, almost completely covered with works of Tintoretto. The Peggy Guggenheim Museum would probably be of interest to lovers of modern art; I've never been there, so can't express an opinion. I also recommend just getting lost a bit in Venice. Off the overly beaten path, you can enjoy hours of peace and quiet on some little paths along unfrequented canals.
Basically, what I'm trying to convey is the importance of visiting more hidden treasures and fewer world-famous "must-see" sights when you're visiting Europe in high season and don't have much time in any one place. If you try to tick off all the things on the top-ten lists of each city, you'll spend almost all of your time shuffling along in a crowd of your fellow tourists and will leave Europe exhausted and disillusioned. Your granddaughter may be put off art for life. Another reason for skipping a few of the biggies is that it gives you an excellent reason to return. I know I have to go back to Paris, because I still haven't seen the Picasso Museum and the Orangerie.
You'll be flabbergasted to see how much more crowded, I would say inundated, Paris is than it was than when you lived there. It's even much more crowded than it was fifteen years ago. My husband and I were in Paris for about a week five years ago, in April, so not yet high season. We had both been there several times before, but we wanted to revisit a few old favorites. We waited over an hour to get into Sainte Chapelle, but I really wanted my husband to see it. We decided to skip Notre Dame when we saw the crowd waiting to get in; we had both been there before. We didn't even attempt to go to the Louvre, where I had been before; I don't remember if my husband had. The D'Orsay was crowded, but bearable. We got in with a fairly short wait, although we hadn't bought tickets in advance. We enjoyed the Cluny Museum, of medieval art, which was new to both of us, and refreshingly uncrowded. We also didn't go up the Eiffel Tower, which my husband had done before and which doesn't really interest me; I'm quite satisfied to view it from ground level.
I also wouldn't go to the Cinque Terre in the summer, but if you really must, I would plan on hiking the high trails, where most of the mass tourism visitors don't venture. However, you need decent hiking shoes for these trails, and, being "high trails", there is a good deal of climbing involved. Several of the lower trails have been closed for the last seven years due to the risk of landslides, and the remaining two lower trails are often as crowded as the Long Island Expressway at rush hour. For this reason, I recommend staying in Monterosso or Vernazza, so you would have a chance at hitting one of the lower trails before the tour buses arrive.
To give you an idea, take a look at this:
https://genova.repubblica.it/cronaca...ti_-123899365/
The photo, and especially the video, will give you an idea. Obviously, because of the subject matter (Revolt against badly behaved tourists in the Cinque Terre) they don't show it when all is quiet. I probably would plan to stay there only two nights. That would give you one evening and one early morning without the day trippers, and with good light for photographs, and one entire day to hike the high trails. This would give you another day to spend elsewhere.
Palenq, my American cousins visited the Louvre a few years ago in the summer. They couldn't get anywhere near the Mona Lisa, but they got a shot of it by holding their iPhones above the heads of the crowd in front of them. I would suggest trying to see Leonardo's John the Baptist, which is also at the Louvre. It was being restored a few years ago, but should be back by now, more brilliant than ever. In my opinion it's his masterpiece, with an equally enigmatic smile as the Mona Lisa. (She's known as La Giocanda in Italy.) I saw John the Baptist when it was on loan in Milan, before it was restored.
Actually, I agree that the Louvre may not be the best museum visit for your group. It's one of those museums, like the Vatican Museums, or the Uffizi in Florence, that's best visited in mid-January. I agree that the D'Orsay, which is also often quite crowded, but a more manageable size, is probably a better choice. I also like the Rodin Museum, which has a very nice sculpture garden, with a café and lawn chairs.
In Florence, I don't recommend the Uffizi Gallery unless one of your group has a very specialized interest in Italian Renaissance painting mostly of a religious nature, as the collection is heavily focused on that period and many of the works displayed were originally in churches. It's also a huge museum. My daughter and I once spent seven hours there, over two days, and still saw only part of the collection. The Bargello Museum is the sister of the Uffizi, and has primarily a collection of sculpture, including works by Michelangelo, Donatello, and other great masters. The Museum of the Duomo is also very interesting and contains many great works that were originally in the Duomo, including, again, those of Michelangelo and Donatello. Donatello's Mary Magdalene (in the Duomo Museum) is one of my favorite sculptures of all time. His David, in the Bargello, dare I say it, appeals to me more than Michelangelo's David.
I think one of the best ways to appreciate Renaissance art in Florence is to visit some of the great church/museums, where you can see the art displayed as it was meant to be seen. The Museum of San Marco, once a convent, has the monks' cells gloriously decorated by frescoes by the Beato Angelico (known as Fra Angelico in the US). The Church of Santa Maria del Carmine has several beautifully decorated chapels, including the Brancacci Chapel, mostly decorated by Masaccio, with the Expulsion from Paradise, one of his great masterpieces. The Basilica of Santa Maria Novella has many great Renaissance masterpieces, including the Tornabuoni Chapel, decorated by frescoes from the studio of the Ghirlandaio, where the young Michelangelo was an apprentice. Some art experts believe that some of the painting of these frescoes is his work, including a boy who is thought to be a self-portrait. The last time I was in Florence, there was a volunteer giving free tours. We took the tour, which was very interesting. The volunteer guide said they also offered tours in English. However, I don't think you can always expect to find a guide available, especially an English-speaking one.
Another visit that would probably appeal to some of your group is to the Officina Profumo Farmaceutica di Santa Maria Novella, a medieval pharmacy that was once where the monks of Santa Maria Novella sold their concoctions. Now it's operated by a private group that sells all sorts of creams, lotions and cologne waters, and some of the original concoctions of the monks. Many of the furnishing are original. They also have a very nice tea room. Whenever I'm in Florence, I pick up some of my favorite lotion, the Crema Fluida Relax, a very light (and lightly scented) body lotion that's non-greasy and suitable especially in the summer.
If you are insistent on visiting the Vatican Museums and Sistine Chapel, I suggest you go on a Friday evening, when it's much less crowded, and also less hot and humid. (There is almost no air conditioning there, and the crowds in summer are like those in the photo of the Cinque Terre.) If you can't go on the Friday evening, I would get one of the early entry tickets. These are offered by private groups, at a very high price, but the Vatican Museums offers a less expensive early-entry.-with-breakfast option. This doesn't include a guided tour, but it includes an audio guide, and, to be honest, I prefer to be independent in that museum, so I can spend more time on the things that interest me. If you do the early entry, make a beeline to the Sistine Chapel as soon as you're free of the breakfast, before the hordes arrive. Then go back to see the rest of the things you want to see. I highly recommend the Egyptian collection, and the Etruscan Collection (not open on Friday evenings). My granddaughter (12 years old) said she could spend two weeks in the Egyptian rooms. She liked it better than the Sistine Chapel.
In Rome, some of the delightful uncrowded museums are Palazzo Massimo alle Terme, the Villa Farnesina, the Capitoline Museums, the Galleria Doria Pamphilj, and the Capitoline Museums. The Doria Pamphilj Gallery is especially interesting even to people who are not much into art. It's a Renaissance palazzo still owned,and partly inhabited, by descendants of the powerful Doria Pamphilj family. The family's art collection, with some priceless treasures and some paintings of little interest, is displayed on the walls as it was originally. The rooms are lavishly furnished in period style, and there is an excellent audio guide narrated by a member of the family. They also have period musical entertainment some days. (The Vatican Museums also has musical entertainment at some of the Friday night openings.)
In Venice, some of the better uncrowded visits are to the Ca' Rezzonico, a lavish palazzo with some art displayed, especially temporary exhibits; and the Scuola Grande di San Rocco, almost completely covered with works of Tintoretto. The Peggy Guggenheim Museum would probably be of interest to lovers of modern art; I've never been there, so can't express an opinion. I also recommend just getting lost a bit in Venice. Off the overly beaten path, you can enjoy hours of peace and quiet on some little paths along unfrequented canals.
Basically, what I'm trying to convey is the importance of visiting more hidden treasures and fewer world-famous "must-see" sights when you're visiting Europe in high season and don't have much time in any one place. If you try to tick off all the things on the top-ten lists of each city, you'll spend almost all of your time shuffling along in a crowd of your fellow tourists and will leave Europe exhausted and disillusioned. Your granddaughter may be put off art for life. Another reason for skipping a few of the biggies is that it gives you an excellent reason to return. I know I have to go back to Paris, because I still haven't seen the Picasso Museum and the Orangerie.
You'll be flabbergasted to see how much more crowded, I would say inundated, Paris is than it was than when you lived there. It's even much more crowded than it was fifteen years ago. My husband and I were in Paris for about a week five years ago, in April, so not yet high season. We had both been there several times before, but we wanted to revisit a few old favorites. We waited over an hour to get into Sainte Chapelle, but I really wanted my husband to see it. We decided to skip Notre Dame when we saw the crowd waiting to get in; we had both been there before. We didn't even attempt to go to the Louvre, where I had been before; I don't remember if my husband had. The D'Orsay was crowded, but bearable. We got in with a fairly short wait, although we hadn't bought tickets in advance. We enjoyed the Cluny Museum, of medieval art, which was new to both of us, and refreshingly uncrowded. We also didn't go up the Eiffel Tower, which my husband had done before and which doesn't really interest me; I'm quite satisfied to view it from ground level.
Sep 18th, 2018, 08:32 AM
#24
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Spend an extra day in Venice and go to Burano to get some great photos. The colors are wonderful.
Perhaps also visit Lucca from Florence.
If you want to go to Provence, consider skipping Rome this trip and spend more time in the picturesque villages and towns in Provence. They seem made for photos. Aix is like an impressionist painting.
Perhaps also visit Lucca from Florence.
If you want to go to Provence, consider skipping Rome this trip and spend more time in the picturesque villages and towns in Provence. They seem made for photos. Aix is like an impressionist painting.
Sep 18th, 2018, 08:33 AM
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I should add that for your itinerary trains and buses are by far the best option. The cities are not intended for cars, and many parts of them are off limits. The high-speed trains connect cities much more quickly and cheaply than cars. The Cinque Terre is particularly unsuited for cars. If you decide to spend a day or two in the countryside, consider renting a car for those days. You need an International Drivers Permit (IDP) along with your normal license to drive in Italy, and maybe also in France. Read up on the international road signs, and in Italy on the ZTLs, limited traffic zones found in nearly every town and city.
A car for five may not contain all your luggage, unless you are very light packers, so you might want to rent a van.
A car for five may not contain all your luggage, unless you are very light packers, so you might want to rent a van.
Sep 18th, 2018, 09:40 AM
#27
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bvlenci, I just wanted to write a quick THANKS for your detailed response and specific ideas as well as links. I am printing it out so we can leisurely read over it again this weekend and formulate some plans. Great ideas. More later.
Sep 18th, 2018, 09:42 AM
#28
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Sassafrass, Thanks for the reminder about Burano. One of my favorite photos from there is framed on my living room wall. We might do that. But I like the idea about the villages around Provence too. I love village life in France. We once spent three months in Chambon-sur-Lignon at language school and it was charming!
Sep 18th, 2018, 09:45 AM
#29
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Thx bvlenci. We will all be carrying carry-ons only--plus camera bag to two, but alas--we are tall and sort of big people! So we will have to see, but we have already decided to not drive most of the time. Maybe in Tuscany and in the countryside.
Sep 18th, 2018, 11:27 AM
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I used a tour guide in Rome two days. I had three daughters along and they all loved her. If you think you might want a tour guide I would definitely contact her. Our first day was touring the Colosseum and Forum. No waiting in lines, informative and fun! the second tour was of the Vatican. Again, no lines. She was awesome and affordable. Please let me know if you'd like her contact info. I don't want to post it publicly...not sure if that is permitted.
I am taking my 17 year old to paris too....in 2016 I took my then, 17 year old to Paris and we saw all the sights. We stayed in a great little hotel in the Marais. I highly recommend this area (4th arrondisement). It is hip, lively but not crazy...
My daughter and I went to Monmatre and both loved it. We of course did the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame. We went prom dress shopping....we ate fabulous foods and wandered everywhere. She loved the outdoor markets! Can't wait to do it again this year with my now 17 year old daughter. I'm looking at AirB&B's in the Latin Quarter. Let me know if you find anything....
I am taking my 17 year old to paris too....in 2016 I took my then, 17 year old to Paris and we saw all the sights. We stayed in a great little hotel in the Marais. I highly recommend this area (4th arrondisement). It is hip, lively but not crazy...
My daughter and I went to Monmatre and both loved it. We of course did the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame. We went prom dress shopping....we ate fabulous foods and wandered everywhere. She loved the outdoor markets! Can't wait to do it again this year with my now 17 year old daughter. I'm looking at AirB&B's in the Latin Quarter. Let me know if you find anything....
Sep 18th, 2018, 11:32 AM
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Saw that you are considering Versailles. My friend who was just there in May said it was a waste. Overcrowded...couldn't even get to the mirrors. Too many people to deal with and limited what they were able to see. She suggested visiting chateaus in the Loure region...That is our plan. Lesser known area. Also...I suggest asking your granddaughter if she would want to go the Louvre. My daughter had no desire. Instead, she wanted to walk the streets and embrace the people, the food, the art and the shopping all within the streets rather than a museum.
Sep 18th, 2018, 11:54 AM
#32
3) Any experiences she should absolutely have?
Maybe ask her that question? As with the Louvre above, 17 is old enough to have a big say in the trip planning and daily schedules, what she does or does not have an interest in seeing and doing.
Maybe ask her that question? As with the Louvre above, 17 is old enough to have a big say in the trip planning and daily schedules, what she does or does not have an interest in seeing and doing.
Sep 18th, 2018, 01:24 PM
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Versailles can be a drag for the palace tour but the parks and gardens are a delight as is the Hameau where Marie-Antoinette allegedly played peasant girl - rent bikes to cycle around the vast area or take a people mover or walk - if possible come on a day when the water fountains are playing to piped in music - many weekends I believe. But palace tour to me was always rather a bore what with suffocating crowds but the entire park and all with huge rectangular water pool - can rent boats - a joy to explore as is the town of Versailles that few palace visitors ever get to - a nice upscale regional town with popular market many days in wrought-iron market halls redolent of what Les Halles in Paris once looked like. Take RER C right to within a few blocks on palace entry. Fontainebleau would be a royal fantasy palace that is easily reached by train and somewhat fewer crowds.
Sep 18th, 2018, 08:54 PM
#34
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Andreadee! Thank you! I love what you did visiting. And yes, I would like your guide and guide's contact #. And I'd like to know your great little hotel in Marais. I do want to go to Montmartre with an extra day as we bought a painting there years ago for about $ 80 and it is now worth about $10,000! Makes for a great story as that artist that I admired became famous!!! She knows that painting and story. I'll let you know and my email address is patty [email protected] Thank you!!!
Sep 18th, 2018, 08:56 PM
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Andreadee, again a good idea but I think she does want to go to the Louvre if even briefly. My daughter REALLY wants to go to Versailles again, so we'll see how that goes. But I think Taylor might agree with your daughter.
Sep 18th, 2018, 08:57 PM
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Andreadee, again a good idea but I think she does want to go to the Louvre if even briefly. My daughter REALLY wants to go to Versailles again, so we'll see how that goes. But I think Taylor might agree with your daughter.
Sep 18th, 2018, 08:58 PM
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Thanks again, PalenQ. The town of Versailles sounds like a nice idea that I had never thought of. I'll check on the fountains. We took our daughter to Fontainefleau years ago when she was a baby!!!
Sep 19th, 2018, 11:09 AM
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Sep 19th, 2018, 12:08 PM
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And many areas of Louvre have very few visitors - the mobs gravitate to a few key places - like suze says you could pop in for just a quick look and then be able to say 'we saw the Louvre'! Again a museum pass allows this type of thing without worrying about money.
And the pass also allows free entry to places like Pantheon and Conciergerie, Ecole Militaire (see Napoleon's stuffed dog!), Arch de Triomphe, the Towers of Notre-Dame (see the big bells) and zillions more museums and sights that you may enjoy more than Louvre.
And the pass also allows free entry to places like Pantheon and Conciergerie, Ecole Militaire (see Napoleon's stuffed dog!), Arch de Triomphe, the Towers of Notre-Dame (see the big bells) and zillions more museums and sights that you may enjoy more than Louvre.
Last edited by PalenQ; Sep 19th, 2018 at 12:11 PM.
