scrb11

I'm looking to use miles and I see redemption options either to Zurich round trip or fly into Milan and fly out of Venice. I've been to many but not all of the places in these regions. I've not been to any of these places in the late summer, which is when it's suppose to be most likely to have sun and minimal rain, especially in the mountains.

I've been to Switzerland twice but only in the winters, once staying in Grindlewald and Zermatt and then the other time staying in Wengen and Luzern. Did some hiking from Wengen when there was only one sunny day. Not a big hiker though, mainly interested in getting to the most scenic spots. One thing I haven't been able to do is take in the beauty of the lakes, around Interlaken as well as Geneva. I think I had the Swiss Pass the first time but obviously didn't get to use it for discounts on lake cruises. I've been looking at various itineraries, some of which look very busy. For instance, it seems I'd be able to cover BO and either Engadine or Zermatt or Montreux and surroundings near Lake Geneva.

The duration would be 2-3 weeks in either case, about 13-15 full days on the ground in Switzerland or a couple more days in Italy.

For Italy, I've been to Como a couple of times, Ortisei once, Garda once and Venice a couple of times. I would be thinking of renting a car and go to Stresa/Baveno for 2-3 days, Como (or up in Menaggio) for 3-4 days, Ortisei for 2-3 days and then Venice for 3-4 days. Would return the car as I arrive in Venice maybe even try to get to Trieste, though that's a longer train ride than I would have thought (4 hours each way it seems).

Probably could do without the car in Lake Como, though it seems more useful to have up in Val di Gardena. I have no problems taking trains (though taking luggage including a big suitcase may be a hassle) but the train from MXP to Stresa is 90 minutes or more. The distance is only suppose to be 22 miles or via roads? Hotels in the area list parking, some private, some public, making it sound like it's better than parking in mid Lake Como. But if that's not the case, if it's as crazy to park as in Menaggio, then I can look picking up the car after the Lake Maggiore and Como.

Does anyone have opinions about one country or another at this time of the year? I guess Switzerland could be less of a hassle since I wouldn't have to deal with a car (though in doing some research on the Engadine, it seems having a car could be useful in some parts). It may come down to Swiss Alps vs. Italian Lakes and Venice.

PalenQ

Swiss Pass is fully valid for 100% boat travel on regular ferries on just about all Swiss lakes - and has been for some time. For info on Swiss trains and passes check www.sbb.ch; BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com. Perhaps a 15-consecutive pass would be a great deal -covering everything that moves in Switzerland just about, except gondolas and trains to mountain tops and those are 50% off. Rule is that is a boat, bus or train or gondola connects two actual villages or towns it's fully covered if not usually 50% off.

why all or nothing - easy to mix say Italian lakes with Swiss Alps or Italian Alps with Swiss lakes.

Don't need car in Italian lakes areas either as boats go everywhere and you can easily see both sides of the lake. Venice of course car-less. I enjoyed Lake Garda a whole lot and right on train line to Venice. Verona and Vincenza and Padua also neat old towns easily accessible by rail.

I took an air bus from Stresa to Malpensa and back - direct and no hassle.

Information About The Alibus Shuttle From Malpensa To Stresa - 2018

scrb11

I was thinking maybe an 8-day Flexipass?

Because I wouldn't necessarily have to be traveling every day during two weeks? For instance, if I stayed 4-5 days in BO, maybe would need to travel in and out and maybe one trip down towards the lakes. Then again, there are buses and cable cars to take when hiking around too.

Or Half Fare card if I can minimize the need for travel.

But before figuring out all that, I guess I would need to choose first.

swandav2000

Hi scrb11,

Wow, going to Switzerland in August is going to be vastly, vastly different from going in the wintertime, particularly in the Oberland area, which gets inundated with tour busses. The tour busses are particularly heavy in Interlaken and in Grindelwald -- because that's as high as they can get to -- and the towns are too small to graciously integrate so many of these off-loaded day-tripping passengers.

For that reason, and because you want to focus on lakes on this trip, I'd suggest you stay right on the lake at either Thun or Spiez. Both of these towns have a castle, both have stunning lake views, and both are way off the path of the tour-bus-riding tourist.

For the Lake Geneva area, I'd also suggest finding a small and less touristy spot. Montreux can be elbow-to-elbow in the summertime, which I find really unappealing. So you may want to stay up in the hills above the lake, where it will also be cooler -- maybe in the vineyard villages like Lutry or Chexbres or Chardonne. Or you could stay on the other side of Lausanne, at Morges or Nyon.

I think you'll be fine in the Engadin Valley, which has yet to surface as a destination for the major tour companies or for most English-speaking visitors. I spent a week in Zuoz once (many, many years ago) and while it did have a tourist information office, it did NOT have a shop selling tourist trinkets or souvenirs. You may want to consider seeing both upper and lower Engadin, with a stay in Scuol for the lower Engadin. For the upper Engadin, you could choose from Sils or Silvaplana or Pontresina or Samedan, etc.

Since you've already been to the Oberland two times, I would be tempted to skip it this time -- maybe focus on Lake Geneva, two spots in the Engadin, then the Bernina Express to get to Italy.

Have fun as you plan!

s

scrb11

I was looking at hotel prices in all the locations in both countries.

They all seem okay until you get to Val di Gardena. A lot of them area already booked out, which is not the case in Switzerland or other places in Italy. But they're charging over $200 a day for 3-star ski lodges up in Santa Cristina. One place, they charged $500 more for half-board for one person, though I was checking for a 6-day stay.

Wengen half board options are not nearly as expensive, though I was looking for 4 days.

The only other really expensive places are those with views or balconies over the Grand Canal in Venice.

Sue81

HI, Well I love Wengen, and would go back in a minute if I had air tickets. The mountains are fantastic there. Was there in mid July 18, had sun every day. Also loved Murren, but it is not as open as Wengen with the walls of mountains across from our cabin. Also you mentioned you've been to Zermatt, I was there too in July and thourougly enjoyed the village altho much more touristy, but good dining, and the underground museum is fascinating. Can give you the name of a very nice new and expensive hotel if interested, sort of built into mtn in Zermatt. I'd go back to Switzerland. Sue

StCirq

We are big fans of Lakes Maggiore and Orta. Easy enough to get up into the mountains there and travel to Switzerland. Been to that area several times, last in late November of 2017, but only once in August, and it wasn't oppressively touristed.

We spent a week in Venice at Christmas in 2016 and stayed a week at Ca' dei Nobile, which we loved and was inexpensive by our standards for Venice.

scrb11

I know I can visit both areas but I think it would be one or the either because if I go to Switzerland, I'd buy some rail pass and in Italy, I'd rent a car.

About the only place I might cross over is from Lake Como. I see the train up to Monte Generoso, which isn't too far from Como. But I guess I would have to cross into Switzerland to try out that train.

Would I need a Swiss vignette for such a short trip into Switzerland?

StCirq

If you're going to travel on a highway, yes. It doesn't have anything to do with the length of time, but on the roads you'd be using.

PalenQ

You never have to drive on motorways (presumably what StCirq calls highways) requiring the vignette. Motorways and our freeways or limited access roads - see map:

https://www.tolltickets.com/country/...spx?lang=en-GB

So rather than pay 40 CHF for the motorway vignette just take regular roads that go thru towns, etc.

PalenQ

And one would think Mt Generoso train and summit to be rather tame after all those Swiss trains you'll have taken?

scrb11

No if I go to Como, then I wouldn't be going to Switzerland otherwise.

scrb11

I don't know about necessarily focusing on the lakes. I'd like it if I'd see more of the BO in the bright sun. I've never been up to Schynige Platte for instance or Harder Klum but both seem to have spectacular views of the lakes. And every time I've been on the train and it stopped at Speiz, the water look spectacular, with it so close to the train station.

Even though I've been to BO, I'd still prioritize it over Engadin. But I may try to get to both, though the train journey times are tough. I looked at going to Zermatt for 2-3 nights but then you have to go all the way back to Zurich to get to Klosters for example, making for a long day on trains. What I don't get is there seems to be an east-west line to the south, which is more of a direct route from Visp or Brig to Chur and then Klosters, without having to go all the way north to Zurich. Yet all the routing goes through Zurich, despite this map showing an extensive network:

https://www.sbb.ch/content/dam/infra...te-schweiz.pdf

OK, it looks like you can take the Glacier Express along that southern line but it takes 5 hours as well. More scenic but takes just as long if not longer.

The part of Lake Geneva I want to see is something like this:

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/p...aphy/680910590

Not sure exactly where it was taken. It says Vevey but are there pastures right by what I assume is a relatively bigger city?

As for Engadin, it appears after St. Moritz, you would take buses to places like Celerina or Silvaplana. I like the idea of the Engadin Pass but a car might be needed to get around to all the cable cars covered by the pass. That would be from staying 3 nights in the area.

PalenQ

Gottcha! Go for Monteroso!

kja

I adored the Engadine, but wouldn't try to cram it into 3 nights -- and I'm not one to dally! Too, I wouldn't aim for St. Moritz. No need for a car in the Engadine.

Melnq8

St. Moritz would be pretty low on my list too. Stay in a nearby village - many choices accessible by train or bus.

scrb11

Well it would be 2 nights in Klosters and then 3 nights by St. Moritz. I could add 1 or 2 more nights too, maybe cut days from other destinations (BO, Zermatt, possibly Vevey or Luzern).

Just based on an initial search of hotels. Maybe I'm overrating the value of the Engadin Card, which you get by staying 2 or more nights at a participating hotel. One of such hotels is a 4-star in St. Moritz which seems to be a good value as well as well-reviewed.

So if I'm going to hit as many of the cable cars included in the Engadin Card, St. Moritz seems to be in the middle of them, with Celerina to one side and Silviaplana to the other. I also noticed that St. Moritz seems to be the terminus of the rail connections? So sbb.ch shows any connections beyond St. Moritz, such as St. Moritz to Silivaplana, to be on buses. Now maybe those buses are frequent so you wouldn't miss a car. But if I'm going back and forth between Piz Corvatch and Corviglia or points further out, I may consider it. Have to do some more research to see if buses would be sufficient.

swandav2000

Hi again,

Just like to agree that no car is needed in about 95% of the places in Switzerland, including the Engadin Valley. If you do have to transfer to a bus, it is only marginally less comfortable than transferring to another train, just requiring you to walk outside the train station and onto a waiting bus. You won't be the only passenger doing this and will probably be following a nice little parade of folks enroute to the same place. Trains and busses are seamlessly integrated.

Also remember that using public transportation will help keep that beautiful area clean and pristine; it is so easy and fun to reduce your carbon footprint for a few days, so it would seem a shame not to take advantage of it.

Anyway, that photo might be around Jongny or above Jongny or somewhere above Corsier. The position of the town on this side of the lake and the position of the mountains does make it look like the view point is around Vevey. But it is above the vineyards that cover the hillsides directly above the lake, yet there is no evidence of Mt Pelerin in the photo. So I'd guess it's to the east of Mt Pelerin.

The reason why I thought you wanted to focus on the lakes is your statement: " One thing I haven't been able to do is take in the beauty of the lakes, around Interlaken as well as Geneva."

Anyway, have fun as you plan!

s

neckervd

Buses around St. Moritz:
Surlej (Corvatsch gondola) - Champfer - St. Moritz Bad (Signal gondola) - St. Moritz (Chantarella-Corviglia rope railway, main railway station) - Schlarigna (Marguns gondola) - Punt Muragl (Muottas Muragl rope railway) - Pontresina (Alp Languard chairlift, railway station) : every 15 to 30 minutes from 7.01 until 18.31, then every hr until 23.53;
Maloja - Sils Maria - Silvaplana - Champfer - St. Moritz Bad (Signal gondola) - St. Moritz (Chantarella-Corviglia rope railway, main railway station) - Schlarigna (Marguns gondola) - Samedan (railway sttion) - La Punt - Chamues-ch: every 30 to 60 minutes from 6.20 until 23.38
Bus Pontresina - Diavolezza gondola - Lagalb gondola - Bernina Pass - La Motta: every hr from 8.12 until 19.12
Train Pontresina - Diavolezza gondola - Lagalb gondola - Bernina Pass - Poschiavo: every hr from 7.02 until 20.04

neckervd

Journey times:
Brig - St. Moritz via Zurich: 5 1/2 hrs
Brig - St. Moritz via Andermatt (Glacier Express itinerary): 6 1/2 hrs
Brig - St. Moritz via Centovalli - Locarno - Lugano - Lake Lugano - Lake Como - Chiavenna: 8 hrs