Yah - Bern is a fine city, for a day but like many European cities is rather dead at night since most stores close - kind of like a ghost town at night. And hotels here are amongst the most expensive in Europe whilst more tourist destinations like the Interlaken area and Montreux have lots more affordable hotels. I'd do Bern as a day trip from either Lucerne or the Interlaken area - saving it for a bad weather day.

Palenque, swandav2000 and schuler, thanks for your viewpoints and always for your patience and generosity in listening and advising!

Deep breath...about to plunge in...and actually finalize the itinerary and book the hotels! If I start treading water instead of swimming, I'll be right back!

Besides I'll be back anyway as it's delightful to anticipate the trip by listening to all your favorite experiences in Switzerland!

thanks for your thanks! Sincerely and IMO no matter where you go in Switzerland is bound to be great - every inch of the country is scenic IMO - the flower bedecked chalet-style houses - the cows with tinkling cow bells, etc.

Thanks to this wonderful discussion I feel like I have already "travelled" all over Switzerland with you all! Thanks for the "tour"!

We have our airline tickets and I have 9 out of 15 nights booked for hotels. Here is what I have booked:

Fly LAX to Zurich

4 nights: <i>Lucerne?? Engelberg??</i>

4 nights: <b>Murren (booked!)</b>

5 nights: <b>Wengen (booked)</b>

2 nights: <i>Zurich??</i>

Fly home Zurich to LAX

We have made the difficult decision to skip the Lake Geneva area on this trip. That will be the next Swiss trip hopefully!

We are also definitely staying in both <b>Wengen</b> and <b>Murren</b> where we have booked hotels. (In fact we are still open to adding even more nights to Wengen & Murren.)

For the 1st four nights in Switzerland...I am probably going to book 4 nights in <b>Lucerne</b>. BUT hotels in Lucerne are expensive, and I'm a bit worried about the noisy city. (I'm a light sleeper.) The Romantik Hotel Wilden-Mann looks like our style...although too expensive like most hotels in Lucerne. I REALLY wanted to start our trip with 4 nights in Lucerne so we could relax, recover from jetlag, explore the town and the lovely lakes, and do a day-trip up to Engelberg / Rigi / Titlis ....plenty of lovely choices. Or even a day-trip to Bern.

OR we could start our trip with 1 night in <b>Zurich</b> (or Lucerne) and 3 nights in <b>Engelberg</b>...

OR we could go directly from our flight in <b>Zurich</b> to <b>Engelberg</b> for 4 nights... However jet-lag so exhausts and disorients me that I think this would be a bit demanding for me. (I usually pick a hotel closer to the airport after such a long flight...)

Our flight from LAX to Zurich arrives in the late afternoon...around 4:00 pm...

We prefer to unpack our luggage and stay a minimum of 3 or 4 nights in each "base" hotel. From there we take day-trips. We enjoy gorgeous scenery, walks, wildflowers, mountains, waterfalls, nature, peace, culture, music, tasty food/wine/beer. History, museums, zoos, botanical gardens...romance... We look for "local" accommodations / cafes / pubs / which are locally owned/family-run wherever we can find them. We don't need a lot of night-life...the moon and a star-lit night is probably our favorite night-life!

QUESTION: I'm curious: if you have stayed in <b>Lucerne</b>... Do you like Lucerne as a base, and why or why not? Did you feel the experience was worth the price of the hotels?

QUESTION: If you have stayed in Wengen, Murren, and Engelberg... Which was your favorite, as a base, and why?

For the end of the trip, we will spend the last 1 or 2 nights in Zurich.

Thanks for the grand tour of Switzerland and all the advice and viewpoints! Please feel free to add your viewpoint even if it's the minority viewpoint. I'm enjoying the discussion.

BUT hotels in Lucerne are expensive, and I'm a bit worried about the noisy city. (I'm a light sleeper.) The Romantik Hotel Wilden-Mann looks like our style...although too expensive like most hotels in Lucerne>

IME cities like Lucerne roll up the sidewalks as soon as the shopping district closes - by 7pm or so and the city becomes churchmouse quiet after that (and on Sundays too)

Lucerne is not a loud large city like Zurich

Palenque: Thanks for your view that Lucerne gets quiet after dark. I hope so. I think I'm going to book our first 3 or 4 nights in Lucerne. I tried to find a nice quiet hotel on a smaller village along Lake Lucerne but they mostly seem to be luxurious hotels along the lake in the smaller villages. The Romantik hotel wilden-mann in Lucerne sounds the closest to the kind of place we enjoy, although as I said I didn't realize Lucerne was so expensive.

We do like some balance and variety on trips. Perhaps since we are spending most of the trip based on Wengen and Murren...it would be a nice balance to spend some nights based in a town like Lucerne which does offer some museums, etc. Plus I do enjoy scenic lakes. Our Swiss Pass should include the boats I think...

Yes the Swiss Pass passes on boats like trains and there are sweet places to head to around Lake Lucerne - fjord-like Lake Lucerne - to me the lovliest of many lovely Swiss lakes.

Palenque: You have been generous with your advice and I have enjoyed a preview of Switzerland through your eyes! 8-) Thank you to all of the fodorites who have participated in this fascinating discussion!

Palenque (or anyone who wishes to answer): OK I am ready to commit to my itinerary. We will begin our Swiss adventure with 3 nights in <b>Lucerne</b> at the Romantik Hotel Wilden-Mann. I like your description of the "fijord-like Lake Lucerne...to me the lovliest of many lovely Swiss lakes". Sounds so nice! 3 nights in Lucerne gives us 2 full days on the lake. What would you recommend we do with our 2 full days (and 3 nights) in Lucerne? We will have Swiss passes and so the boats sound enticing.

I originally wanted 4 nights in Lucerne but since it's so expensive, we will spend 3 nights in Lucerne. So that means I'm adding 1 more night to the Berner Oberland, for a total of 10 nights in the Berner Oberland region.

At the end of the trip we will have 1 or 2 nights in Zurich before flying home. We decided we need to be closer to the airport. I'm going to email a hotel which is in a quiet area a few blocks from the old town of Zurich...convenient location but quiet as I understand.

In Luzern do the Mt. Pilatus round trip in the morning (boat to Alpnachstad, cog-train up to Pilatus, cable car/gondola down to Kriens, bus back to Luzern). Afterwards explore the old town, walk along the lakeside promenades, see some churches, sights or so.

For the next day I recommend the looong lake cruise to Flüelen. IMO only the part of the lake that is called "Urner See" (from Brunnen to Flüelen) has a Fjord-like ambience. From Flüelen take the trains back, maybe visit a town along the way, like Schwyz or Zug (little detour), or spend more time in Luzern if you haven't seen everything you're interested in.

Btw, I have stayed in Stans, half way between Luzern and Engelberg and found it to be a very pleasant, non-touristy and convenient small town for day trips. Quite inexpensive compared to Luzern also, but of course you won't find a fancy hotel there.

meteoschweiz is our preferred weather site because of its Swiss radar map. It's almost real time, about a 30 minute lag...good to see what's happening around the country and what's heading your way. http://www.meteoschweiz.admin.ch/web...radarbild.html

And it does offer some (not all) of its info in english.

Ingo: Thanks for the tips on the best day-trips from Luzern! Stans sounds interesting as a base also..I will look that up too. Where did you stay in Stans? I do want to see the part of the lakes called "Urner See". Originally I wanted 4 nights in Luzern to have plenty of time for day-trips but the hotel prices in Luzern make it more affordable to have only 3 nights in Luzern.

Thanks, all you passionate traveling fodorites, for a fabulous Swiss discussion! I already feel like I've traveled all around Switzerland with you all.

Now I've actually got my 4 "bases" chosen and all hotels booked...except for the next-to-the-last night, which is either going to get added to Zurich or Wengen. So this is what I ended up with and I'm very excited about this trip:

Fly LAX to Zurich
3 nights: Luzern
5 nights: Murren
5 nights: Wengen
<b>1 or 2</b> nights: Zurich

Right now we are booked 1 night at the Radisson Blu hotel at the Zurich airport. I hope that was the right decision. Seems very convenient before flying home, quiet, and air conditioned. Although not as charming as other areas...

Since we are getting so much time in the Berner Oberland, I might post a separate question about favorite day-trips or walks or activities from Murren and Wengen. But you have all given me a lot of info (above and in other posts) on Wengen and Murren already. Thank you all!

IMO only the part of the lake that is called "Urner See" (from Brunnen to Flüelen)>

Ingo - i agree - i was talking about the larger arm that goes to Fluelen and not the smaller arm that goes to Stans/Alpnachstad.

We have been following your plans with interest. We will arrive in Lausanne from Paris in early September and plan to spend 4 nights in Lausanne.
We plan to get a 15 day Swiss pass for 2 people 2nd class.
We are thinking of then spend 5 nights in Interlaken, 2 nights in Zermatt and 4 nights in St Moritz.
We intend to travel the Golden Pass, Glacier Express and Bernina Pass routes, but in the ordinary trains. We want explore each area by boat/train/ foot etc.
We then want to spend 4 nights in Varenna on Lake Como and 4 nights in perhaps Stresa or Locarno on Lake Maggiore before catching a train to Milan to meet other family members.
Is this different approach to 4 bases in Switzerland a reasonable one, and can we get to Varenna by train?

Yes you can get to Varenna by rail - at the southern terminus of the Bernina Pass rail route - cross the square after leaving the Swiss station and go into the Italian station from where trains leave about hourly for Milan, stopping en route at Varenna-Esino (sp on the Esino part)

I do like you for bases - at least one in each language area it seems

Thanks for the information about the train to Varenna.
When we leave Varenna we have now decided we would like to spend 4 nights in Locarno as our base for Lake Maggiore. Can we get there by a combination of boat/bus and train?
From Locarno we would like to do the Centovalli route and then head on down to Milan if this is possible.

Varenna-Esino Mo, 07.06.10 dep 10:37 R 2565 Regionalzug

Monza Mo, 07.06.10 arr 11:26
Monza Mo, 07.06.10 dep 11:55 R 10850 Regionalzug

Chiasso Mo, 07.06.10 arr 12:43 13
Chiasso Mo, 07.06.10 dep 13:03 4 S 10 S-Bahn Direction: Bellinzona

Giubiasco Mo, 07.06.10 arr 13:56 4
Giubiasco Mo, 07.06.10 dep 14:04 5 S 20 S-Bahn Direction: Locarno
Locarno

It's a roundabout way by train - the above is a sample routing from bahn.de - note all regional trains so just hop on after buying a thru ticket to cover all - if possible for the Swiss portion to buy in Italy - not sure.

takes about 4 hours - there may be a better non-rail route but i do not know about it.

Note the above schedule comes from www.bahn.de - the German Railways site that has schedules for all of Europe - the easiest i've seen - to reach the English schedule page where you put in Varena-Esino (spelt corrrectly this time) and Locarno and the date and you get all the trains and details. A good way to reach the English page is to go to www.budgeteuropetravel.com and on their home page click on the link 'Best European Railway Timetable' or some such wording and you'll get the English schedule page - i reference this home page link because they also give you on that home page valuable tips to fully use the bahn.de site - such as where the changes are - time between changes - whether reservations are required or not, etc.

From Locarno we would like to do the Centovalli route and then head on down to Milan if this is possible.>

Yes very easily done - the Centovalli (100 Valleys) train is a sweet roll through pastoral hilly Italian countryside (though the train - named FART - yes FART is run in conjunction with the Swiss and local authorities) it ends in Domodossola, on the mainline to Milan - probably four hours all told Locarno to Milan.

Seems you could also take the Centovalli when going to Locarno - take a train Vareena to Milan and then to Domodossola

Then from Locarno you could take a boat on Lake Maggiore to Stresa and then train to Milan

Palenque: I am reading your advice to Ozmali16. You gave me a chuckle...a train named FART must surely generate a lot of chuckles!

<b>THANK you everybody!</b> \/ It was challenging to buckle down to the task of creating a slow itinerary...when there are so many fantastic places to explore in Switzerland! My husband and I appreciate everyone's advice and we feel good about this final itinerary:

Fly LAX to Zurich
3 nights: <b>Luzern</b>
5 nights: <b>Murren</b>
6 nights: <b>Wengen</b>
1 night: <b>Zurich</b> airport (Radisson Blu)
Fly Zurich to LAX (then drive home to San Diego!)

I've booked the hotels, yay! And I've got lots of ideas for scenic walks and day-trips.

But I'd still like to hear about everybody's favorite scenic walks, restaurants, or day-trips from Murren and Wengen, since we have a total of 11 nights in the Berner Oberland! We are interested in wildflowers, scenic views, easy walks for me (and more challenging walks for my husband the biologist); any interesting native flora or fauna; any music or cultural activities... Or anything else I've not thought about!

<b>Murren and Wengen:</b>
Since we have 11 nights in Murren/Wengen, I think we might alternate days spent in the Berner Oberland with day-trips out to places like Bern. Or maybe we'll never want to leave the scenic mountains! I definitely want to see Ballenberg, so that will take up 1 whole day. As for the other sites near Interlaken, along the 2 lakes Thun and Brienz...any ideas about favorite sites in that area? We also want to see the William Tell performance near Interlaken one night (Tellfreilichtspiele).

I might post a separate question about this since we have so much time in the Berner Oberland. I'm getting excited and nervous...our trip is coming up in June/July!