Switzerland and Schengen
Apr 21st, 2008, 10:01 AM
#1
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Switzerland and Schengen
Hi,
We are leaving the US this week for 6 months in Europe. I have planned our trip around the Schengen 90 day rule (will go to Croatia during the 180 days). I know that Switzerland is also a non-Schengen country until 11/14/2008, but have heard conflicting reports about whether it will still count until November towards my 90 non-Schengen days, since their border patrol is now so lax.
I have emailed both the Swiss and Spanish consulates (we arrive and depart in Spain), but both refuse to answer my question directly.
Any insight?
We are leaving the US this week for 6 months in Europe. I have planned our trip around the Schengen 90 day rule (will go to Croatia during the 180 days). I know that Switzerland is also a non-Schengen country until 11/14/2008, but have heard conflicting reports about whether it will still count until November towards my 90 non-Schengen days, since their border patrol is now so lax.
I have emailed both the Swiss and Spanish consulates (we arrive and depart in Spain), but both refuse to answer my question directly.
Any insight?
Apr 21st, 2008, 10:15 AM
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It's not the job of Spanish or Swiss diplomats to tell you how to get round the spirit of Spanish law.
But Switzerland isn't in Schengen, and the 90 day rule applies to Schengen only. You don't need exit stamps to demonstrate you left Schengen for the intervening 90 days if you went to Switzerland. And no-one's going to go out of their way to force you to demonstrate you've obeyed the 90 day rule under normal circumstances. If, say, you commit some offence while in Schengen more than 90 days after you first arrived, you might be asked to demonstrate you'd left the area or else face deportation. But credit card receipts etc would suffice.
But Switzerland isn't in Schengen, and the 90 day rule applies to Schengen only. You don't need exit stamps to demonstrate you left Schengen for the intervening 90 days if you went to Switzerland. And no-one's going to go out of their way to force you to demonstrate you've obeyed the 90 day rule under normal circumstances. If, say, you commit some offence while in Schengen more than 90 days after you first arrived, you might be asked to demonstrate you'd left the area or else face deportation. But credit card receipts etc would suffice.
Apr 21st, 2008, 01:19 PM
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Well a Google search leaves me confused (again flanner!) if Switzerland is actually in the Schengen scheme now or not and is simply waiting voluntarily for whatever reason to do the border-VISA thing in accordance
Or whether flanner is right (unlikely IME) that technically Suisse is not in Schengen yet.
Or whether flanner is right (unlikely IME) that technically Suisse is not in Schengen yet.
Apr 21st, 2008, 09:10 PM
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The question isn't "Is Switzerland one of thge countries that's signed the Schengen agreement?"
It's "for people who don't need visas, does the 90 day limit include time spent in Switzerland?".
To which the answer is "no". As http://ec.europa.eu puts it:
"As a citizen of a third country you may enter and travel within the territory of the Member States applying in full the Schengen provisions for a period of up to three months, provided you fulfil the entry conditions laid down in the Schengen acquis, now integrated into the EU
Switzerland has not yet "applied in full the Schengen provisions"
Incidentally, the rules are different for nationalities (like Serbs and Russians) who need visas. For these people, a principle rather like the 90 day rule often does apply.
It's "for people who don't need visas, does the 90 day limit include time spent in Switzerland?".
To which the answer is "no". As http://ec.europa.eu puts it:
"As a citizen of a third country you may enter and travel within the territory of the Member States applying in full the Schengen provisions for a period of up to three months, provided you fulfil the entry conditions laid down in the Schengen acquis, now integrated into the EU
Switzerland has not yet "applied in full the Schengen provisions"
Incidentally, the rules are different for nationalities (like Serbs and Russians) who need visas. For these people, a principle rather like the 90 day rule often does apply.
Apr 21st, 2008, 09:16 PM
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PS:
Yes, I'm a lot sharper than the Boss. But I don't understand passports.
My passport lets me travel anywhere in Europe for as long as I like and the Boss can afford. SAme goes for any other dog, from anywhere, with a passport. I'm sure there's a reason the French, Germans etc limit the amount of time American humans can stay, but don't limit how long their dogs can.
But the logic defeats me. The Boss says thgat's because my brain's too small. I say it's because the Continentals are being stupid again.
Yes, I'm a lot sharper than the Boss. But I don't understand passports.
My passport lets me travel anywhere in Europe for as long as I like and the Boss can afford. SAme goes for any other dog, from anywhere, with a passport. I'm sure there's a reason the French, Germans etc limit the amount of time American humans can stay, but don't limit how long their dogs can.
But the logic defeats me. The Boss says thgat's because my brain's too small. I say it's because the Continentals are being stupid again.
Apr 22nd, 2008, 06:54 AM
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Since border conrols are so lax bteween Switzerland and the surrounding Schengen lands there is no way for them to know you have left Schengen during your 90 days. This can only be noted by you crossing a border where your passport is machine read. I wouldn't count on time spent in Switzerland being seen as non Schengen days. The same is true for Liechtenstein.
Don't forget to get a toll sticker for Switzerland and Austria. Also make sure your vehicle has a warning triangle and fluorescent jackets for you to wear in the event of a breakdown..
Don't forget to get a toll sticker for Switzerland and Austria. Also make sure your vehicle has a warning triangle and fluorescent jackets for you to wear in the event of a breakdown..
Apr 22nd, 2008, 07:47 AM
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Though the Vatican City State isn't part of Schengen, since you can only enter and leave it through Italy, Italian rules apply. So even though you spend some time wholly within the Vatican, you are still deemed to be in Italy for immigration purposes.
BTW, there is no accommodation for non-official visitors within the Vatican. There is a guesthouse run by a group of nuns for official visitors to the Vatican (e.g. high-ranking RC clerics). Lesser clergy stay at Domus Romana Sacerdotalis near Castel Sant'Angelo.
BTW, there is no accommodation for non-official visitors within the Vatican. There is a guesthouse run by a group of nuns for official visitors to the Vatican (e.g. high-ranking RC clerics). Lesser clergy stay at Domus Romana Sacerdotalis near Castel Sant'Angelo.
