Swiss to Vote On Guaranteed $3,000/Mo Income for Every...
Oct 15th, 2013, 05:09 AM
#1
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Swiss to Vote On Guaranteed $3,000/Mo Income for Every...
Swiss citizen - probably to be voted on this November - so if going to Switzerland soon expect a lot of publicity for and against this popular referendum - the right of Swiss citizens to initiate with 100,000 valid signatures any ole thing they want.
Wonder how easy it is to immigrate to Switzerland, if the vote passes I'd be on my way!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=692662
Wonder how easy it is to immigrate to Switzerland, if the vote passes I'd be on my way!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=692662
Oct 15th, 2013, 05:36 AM
#3
I strongly suggest, Pal, that you check out the tax situation for those people who have decided they want to move to Switzerland where they get to decide "any old thing." Michigan might start looking quite nice to you.
Oct 15th, 2013, 05:38 AM
#4
And I disagree that you need LOTS of money to move there depending on what you consider to be "lots."
I actually looked into the idea a couple of years ago as well as the various taxing plans. One of the larger minuses was the amount of tax I would have to pay in order to renounce US citizenship; the alternative: paying taxes in the US and in Switzerland simultaneously.
I actually looked into the idea a couple of years ago as well as the various taxing plans. One of the larger minuses was the amount of tax I would have to pay in order to renounce US citizenship; the alternative: paying taxes in the US and in Switzerland simultaneously.
Oct 15th, 2013, 07:28 AM
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Immigrating - incredibly difficult in Switz - would make you a resident - NOT a citizen.
And considering the cost of living $3K per month (that's only $36K per year) would be below the poverty line.
And considering the cost of living $3K per month (that's only $36K per year) would be below the poverty line.
Oct 15th, 2013, 08:00 AM
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"...a companion Swiss referendum will cap CEO's pay with that of the lowest staff member in a company!...
Not really.
The Initiative (not referendum) is called (I translate) "1:12 - for just salaries" because that is the ratio it aims at - that the highest salary in a company can't exceed an amount that is 12 times the salary of the lowest full-time employee.
From the government website that spells out future (and past) voting issues (the Swiss vote many times a year on issues that - in other countries - are entirely in the hands of elected politicians) -
https://www.ch.ch/de/initiative-1-12-gerechte-lohne/
Volksinitiatve "1:12 - für gerechte Löhne"
Worum geht es?
Die Initiative verlangt, dass in einem Unternehmen der höchste bezahlte Lohn nicht mehr als das Zwölffache des tiefsten beträgt. Damit will sie die Löhne des obersten Kaders einschränken.
About the minimum wage: This official government website https://www.ch.ch/en/minimum-wage-and-average-earnings/ has a page in English that states explicitly "Swiss law does not specify any minimum wage or average earnings"
Not really.
The Initiative (not referendum) is called (I translate) "1:12 - for just salaries" because that is the ratio it aims at - that the highest salary in a company can't exceed an amount that is 12 times the salary of the lowest full-time employee.
From the government website that spells out future (and past) voting issues (the Swiss vote many times a year on issues that - in other countries - are entirely in the hands of elected politicians) -
https://www.ch.ch/de/initiative-1-12-gerechte-lohne/
Volksinitiatve "1:12 - für gerechte Löhne"
Worum geht es?
Die Initiative verlangt, dass in einem Unternehmen der höchste bezahlte Lohn nicht mehr als das Zwölffache des tiefsten beträgt. Damit will sie die Löhne des obersten Kaders einschränken.
About the minimum wage: This official government website https://www.ch.ch/en/minimum-wage-and-average-earnings/ has a page in English that states explicitly "Swiss law does not specify any minimum wage or average earnings"
Oct 15th, 2013, 08:11 AM
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It's a wonderful irony.
For the past five years, the perpetual whingers in London's financial services industry have been threatening to take their toys off to a Zurich suburb "because the Swiss don't hold with all this socialist crap".
The thought that they might now have to pay their secretaries at least $1,000,000 a year: it really couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of petulant adolescents.
Of course, they could come back to London - if they can afford the house prices.
For the past five years, the perpetual whingers in London's financial services industry have been threatening to take their toys off to a Zurich suburb "because the Swiss don't hold with all this socialist crap".
The thought that they might now have to pay their secretaries at least $1,000,000 a year: it really couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of petulant adolescents.
Of course, they could come back to London - if they can afford the house prices.
Oct 15th, 2013, 08:13 AM
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To further clarify - no specific amount has been put forward, the Initiative is a long way from ever becoming law let alone resulting in such a decision.
I'm not sure where that amount of 3000 (and in Dollars???) comes from. Besides, the equivalent of 3000 US dollars doesn't go very far if you live in Switzerland...
This is the text of the Initiative that has been brought forward by a group of citizens (not any political party) and published in the federal papers on April 11, 2012, to be put to a vote (note that "Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen" translates as "unconditional minimum income"):
Die Bundesverfassung wird wie folgt geändert:
Art. 110a (neu) Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen
1 Der Bund sorgt für die Einführung eines bedingungslosen Grundeinkommens.
2 Das Grundeinkommen soll der ganzen Bevölkerung ein menschenwürdiges Dasein und die Teilnahme am öffentlichen Leben ermöglichen.
3 Das Gesetz regelt insbesondere die Finanzierung und die Höhe des Grundeinkommens.
I'm not sure where that amount of 3000 (and in Dollars???) comes from. Besides, the equivalent of 3000 US dollars doesn't go very far if you live in Switzerland...
This is the text of the Initiative that has been brought forward by a group of citizens (not any political party) and published in the federal papers on April 11, 2012, to be put to a vote (note that "Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen" translates as "unconditional minimum income"):
Die Bundesverfassung wird wie folgt geändert:
Art. 110a (neu) Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen
1 Der Bund sorgt für die Einführung eines bedingungslosen Grundeinkommens.
2 Das Grundeinkommen soll der ganzen Bevölkerung ein menschenwürdiges Dasein und die Teilnahme am öffentlichen Leben ermöglichen.
3 Das Gesetz regelt insbesondere die Finanzierung und die Höhe des Grundeinkommens.
Oct 15th, 2013, 08:15 AM
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"...The thought that they might now have to pay their secretaries at least $1,000,000 a year:..."
Where does that come from? This discussion never was on solid ground, and this just takes it off the rails...
Where does that come from? This discussion never was on solid ground, and this just takes it off the rails...
Oct 15th, 2013, 08:16 AM
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Getting my Swiss annual ("B") residency/work permit took all of three weeks. We're about to get our permanent residency. And we don't have "loads (and I mean really loads) of $$$$$$"
We don't think of ourselves as fixed-term expats -- nor does my employer (I'm classed as a "permanent, local hire"). We're immigrants, with a high likelihood of staying here the rest of our lives.
We don't think of ourselves as fixed-term expats -- nor does my employer (I'm classed as a "permanent, local hire"). We're immigrants, with a high likelihood of staying here the rest of our lives.
Oct 15th, 2013, 08:21 AM
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"1:12 - for just salaries"
just an fyi: the most widely accepted English translation is "1:12 -- for fair wages"
https://www.ch.ch/en/initiative-1-12-fair-wages/
just an fyi: the most widely accepted English translation is "1:12 -- for fair wages"
https://www.ch.ch/en/initiative-1-12-fair-wages/
Oct 15th, 2013, 08:31 AM
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""...The thought that they might now have to pay their secretaries at least $1,000,000 a year:...Where does that come from?"
The shyster end of London's boutique finance houses want to move to Switzerland so they can keep paying themselves around $10 mn a year. If the referendum passes, they have to choose between coming back, cutting their salaries to twelve times their secretaries' or upping their secretaries' wages.
It's obvious which of those three they won't do - and they've been bleating about all the things that are wrong with London, so their options are limited.
No doubt it won't quite happen. But just the thought of the panic that must be running through their brains is making me feel a great deal better about life.
The shyster end of London's boutique finance houses want to move to Switzerland so they can keep paying themselves around $10 mn a year. If the referendum passes, they have to choose between coming back, cutting their salaries to twelve times their secretaries' or upping their secretaries' wages.
It's obvious which of those three they won't do - and they've been bleating about all the things that are wrong with London, so their options are limited.
No doubt it won't quite happen. But just the thought of the panic that must be running through their brains is making me feel a great deal better about life.
Oct 15th, 2013, 09:00 AM
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Gosh, Flanner, now you are sounding like one of those Guardian readers you were despising this morning. I always find the world seems different after a drink or two in the evening, and it is just 6 p.m.
Oct 15th, 2013, 10:08 AM
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"you are sounding like one of those Guardian readers"
Not remotely. The kind of whingeing shyster wholl live in a Zurich suburb to avoid British tax gives honest money-making, and honest tax-dodging, a bad name.
Can't they just fiddle their expenses like everyone else?
Not remotely. The kind of whingeing shyster wholl live in a Zurich suburb to avoid British tax gives honest money-making, and honest tax-dodging, a bad name.
Can't they just fiddle their expenses like everyone else?
Oct 15th, 2013, 12:26 PM
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What does Switzerland produce except much of the world's anti-depressants and chocolate and watches and precision instruments - where does the money come from - IMO what should be illicit money laundering - the banking industry operating in what I would say is a shady way and this is tolerated by the rest of the world.
Why?
Because fat cats all around the globe from North Korean dictators to Saudi princes to the filthy rich anywhere put their money there due to the secrecy BS.
The Swiss living off the rest of the world have one of the highest if not the highest per capita incomes in the world yet what do they really produce - again chocolate, drugs and precision instruments and I guess tourism is a big thing - especially fat-cat Asians are flocking here.
and what about those cows dotting the landscape everywhere and those little Alpine farmers still tilling small plots of land and cutting hay by hand - that's as hokey as can be - Swiss farm subsidies must put those of the EU to shame. Where does all the socialist hand outs come from - yes flanneruk has it right - Switerland is European socialism at its peak - but only for citizens - many long-time residents cannot become citizens and cannot vote - ah Demockery of democracy.
Don't get me wrong - I love Switzerland in many ways but always marvel at how well off the Swiss are for what little they seem to produce and again it's IMO all money - what should be condemned as illegal money laundering.
Why?
Because fat cats all around the globe from North Korean dictators to Saudi princes to the filthy rich anywhere put their money there due to the secrecy BS.
The Swiss living off the rest of the world have one of the highest if not the highest per capita incomes in the world yet what do they really produce - again chocolate, drugs and precision instruments and I guess tourism is a big thing - especially fat-cat Asians are flocking here.
and what about those cows dotting the landscape everywhere and those little Alpine farmers still tilling small plots of land and cutting hay by hand - that's as hokey as can be - Swiss farm subsidies must put those of the EU to shame. Where does all the socialist hand outs come from - yes flanneruk has it right - Switerland is European socialism at its peak - but only for citizens - many long-time residents cannot become citizens and cannot vote - ah Demockery of democracy.
Don't get me wrong - I love Switzerland in many ways but always marvel at how well off the Swiss are for what little they seem to produce and again it's IMO all money - what should be condemned as illegal money laundering.
