Louise

I am planning a trip to Switzerland in December, and would like to know : <BR> <BR>1.what exactly does the swiss pass cover in the bernese oberland area? does it cover transport to gimmelwald? murren? if not, how much is it? <BR>2. will it be possible for a very fit hiker to hike down from schilthorn in december? what about the long First hike? mannlichen-kleine scheidegg-wengen? <BR>3. is there an early-morning special for schilthorn? <BR> <BR>thanks in advance <BR>

Ed

1. Up to and including Muerren, Gimmelwald, Grindelwald, Wengen. Discounts on travel beyond those points. <BR>2.Question is not one of fitness but snow depth. Schilthorn descent and First to Schynige Platte out of the question. (And the Schynige-Wilderwil train doesn't operate in the winter.) Maennlichen to Kleine Scheidegg likely to be fine. I'd guess not from Kleine Scheidegg to Wengen, though possibly. Many trails are maintained in the winter. Check with the tourist offices of the villages. <BR>3. Yes, there's an early morning fare, at least in the summer, to the Schilthorn on departures before 0900 ... possibly may not apply in ski season (normally Dec. 15 onward.) You can check with http://www.schilthorn.ch/index...2.html <BR> <BR>Rome.Switzerland.Bavaria <BR>www.twenj.com

Bob Brown

Ed is right on with his statement about hiking those trails in December. In fact, I stopped and turned around on the trail from the Faulhorn to Schynige Platte in September because of the snow cover on an exposed ledge. The trail was very narrow and covered with packed snow that was virtually ice. Not having a roped partner and an ice axe, I decided it was foolish for me to try it. <BR>But if you can reach First, there are many beautiful views from up there. <BR> <BR>I cannot answer your question about the Swiss Pass because I bought the Swiss Card. It gives 50% discounts on the various trains. Also, when compared with the Swiss Pass, the Swiss Card yields larger discounts on the various cable lifts (gondalbahnen, sesselbahnen, luftseilbahnen).(Or so I was told.) Perhaps Ed can clear up a question for me. I was told that the Swiss Pass would get me a discount on the ride from Lauterbrunnen to Wengen, but it would not pay for all of it. Is that true?? <BR> <BR>On the strength of that statement, I bought the Swiss Card and got 50% off on the whole Jungfrau ride, up and back. <BR>The Swiss Pass would have given me a 25% discount. (so I was told) <BR> <BR>Another option is the Berner Oberland Regional Pass. It comes in two versions: a 7 day pass and a 15 day pass. The 7 day pass gives 3 days of unlimited free travel within the region, except on a few selected routes like from Kleine Scheidegg to the Jungfraujoch where it is good for a discounted ticket. On the other 4 days you can purchase tickets at a discount. The region is quite large if I read the map correctly. It extends all the way to Luzern, Bern, and through the tunnel to Goppenstein and beyond. <BR>We did not go on the Schilthorn ride because the we planned that for the last day we were in Lauterbrunnen and it started raining with heavy, low cloud cover. <BR>In the summer, you want to take that trip early regardless because the ride on a clear day is very popular.

Anna

Ed is correct in telling you that the swiss pass covers all costs up to Wengen, Grindelwald, Gimmelwald and Murren. It should be noted that you must take a bus and then a cablecar from Lauterbrunnen to get to Gimmelwald, but it is all covered by the swiss pass. To get to Murren, you must either go through Gimmelwald on the cable car and then take another cable car, or take 2 other train-like lifts from Lauterbrunnen, but, again, these are all covered by the swiss pass. You get to Wengen or Grindelwald directly on the train. We did all this last summer and never had to pay for anything, except from Wengen to Jungfrau, and from Murren to Schilthorn, and the swiss pass gives you a 25% discount on those segments.

Ed

For Bob's questions, Anna is correct. The highest year 'round villages are covered. (Aside from tourism, the Swiss Government insists on this in part to encourage (younger) residents to remain in these villages.) As well, the Swiss Pass gets a 25% discount on most everything. <BR> <BR>There are several passes that can be useful for visitors to the area. We always find the Swiss Pass the best for our plans, but there are several others. I think I have them all covered fairly well at www.twenj.com/swpasses.htm <BR> <BR>Ed

Bob Brown

Thanks for the info. I was told that the passes were good as far as Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald. The implication was that they were not good beyond that point. Even so, I think the Swiss Half Fare Card was our best bet because it was good for discounts on the cable contraptions and trains in Saas Fee, Saas Grund, and Zermatt. <BR>Anyone interested in checking out the regional pass can get a little information from this site: <BR>http://www.habkern.ch/verkehr/regiopass/regiop_e.html <BR>It does have a map showing the coverage area of the regional pass and the routes were discounts apply. I just wish the presentation included a few more details. There are so many variations on the fundamental idea of an inclusive pass with different degrees of discounting, that it is hard to run a difinitive cost analysis. Given that we got a free ride from Zurich Kloten to Lauterbrunnen and back, plus the 50% discount on the Jungfrau trip, as well as 25% discounts on cable lifts all over, I still think I came out ahead financially. <BR>

Patrick

Despite what they tell you, it is anyone's guess what discount each pass will give you. My favorite was when three of us got separated to take a combo train and lift package in Schilthorn area. We two guys were first and showed our Swiss passes and were given 25% off on part, and half price on another part. The girls were about 10 minutes behind us in line with the exact same passes and the same plan and were given both segments free!! I guess they were prettier than we were. <BR>One day our trip up First gondola was free with the Swiss pass. Two days later they only gave us 25% discount.

Ed

A couple of follow-ups: <BR> <BR>1) The Swiss Card can be a good deal if you'll be doing little travel outside the immediate area and more or less sticking to the village you've chosen as a base. On longer visits where you'll be moving around the area extensively, taking cruises on the lakes and perhaps one or two day-long excursions to places like Bern or Luzern the Swiss Pass is likely to be the better deal. <BR> <BR>2) Just to correct any misimpressions about how easy it is to get to Muerren: <BR>It takes 7 minutes longer to get to Muerren than Wengen, whether traveling from Interlaken, Lauterbrunnen or Grindelwald. The trip is actually one of the most enjoyable rides in Europe. You begin with a 9 minute funicular ride ... very steep and scenic. Change then to a narrow gauge one car train for one for one of the most spectacular views you can get of the Jungfrau Massiff. If you're worried about luggage, they handle it for you at no charge. You can retrieve it at the end, or many hotels will send their porter to the station to fetch it for you. <BR> <BR>Folks have lots of reasons for choosing other spots than Muerren to stay. (Better for us ... the fewer that stay the better.) But one shouldn't be put off by occasional comments about Muerren's "remoteness". It as convenient as anywhere else in the Jungfrau region, and the views are lovelier. <BR> <BR>Ed