dugi_otok

Here is a backup plan in case you change your mind again!

>>I am not sure if this Switzerland only itinerary will work out well in the end. I tried to add south Germany in the beginning, then tried to add some France... Could it possible to make 10-11 days of Swiss Alps, 4 days non-Swiss? Any advice? <<

How about 4 days in the Alsace, France? Visit a large regional capital city Strasbourg, a quaint medium size city Colmar, a series of small medieval towns and villages, picturesque half timbered Hansel and Gretel houses including chimneys with storks, cobbled streets, and neighboring ancient ruined castles. All on the Route des Vins- vineyards everywhere. Visit the majestic Chateau du Haut-Koenigsbourg.

8- Colmar -Train- Zurich to Colmar (2-1/4 hrs )
9- Colmar Day trip to Strasbourg by train (50 min)
10- . Riquewihr*
11- Riquewihr*
12- Montreux Drive half hr Ruiquewhir to Colmar, Return car Train- Colmar to Montreux (3-3/4 hrs)
13- Montreux
14- Zermatt- Train Montreux to Zermatt
15- Zermatt
16- -Grindelwald- Train Zermatt to Grindelwald (3hrs)
17 - Grindelwald
18- Grindelwald
19- Grindelwald Train Grindelwald to Lucerne (2-1/2 hrs)
20- Lucerne
21- Lucerne
22- Zurich Train Lucerne to Zurich HB( 1 hr)
23- Leaving for home from ZRH I will check Fussen later

dugi_otok

@dugi_otok, you suggest Wengen as our base to explore the OB, it seems most people like it, is it easy to get to every where from Wengen like Grindelwald ? Can Aar Gorge - Brienz be done in OB instead of Lucerne?<<

Bahn.com can be used for Switzerland. But not for buying tickets.

You can get everywhere from Wengen. There is a short 10-15 min train ride to Lauterbrunnen. The Berner Oberland Bahn (BOB) runs from Interlaken to both Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen and you can go from Lauterbrunnen to Grindelwald. They are all about 35 min rides. There is also the Wengernalp Bahn(WAB) that runs from Grindelwald-Kleine Scheidegg-Wengernalp-Wengen-Laterbrunnen

There is a circular day trip that you can do from either Wengen or Grindelwald that would take you to Aare Gorge.
If you start from Wengen it would be :Wengen-Lauterbrunnen*-Grindelwald*-First by cableway (do the cliff walk)-walk to Grosse Scheidegg –Schwarzwaldalp**-Meiringen**(Aare Gorge)-Brienz*-Interlaken(by boat or train)-Wengen**train **bus
It looks complicated but it is not.
It is this trip modified:. https://www.grindelwaldbus.ch/en/hik...ters-roundtrip

jane86

Thank you both for your inputs

”Day trips from Zermatt are long usually since it takes an hour or more to get down from there to Visp and transfer to trains to other sights”

“Wengen-Lauterbrunnen*-Grindelwald*-First by cableway (do the cliff walk)-walk to Grosse Scheidegg –Schwarzwaldalp**-Meiringen**(Aare Gorge)-Brienz*-Interlaken(by boat or train)-Wengen**train **bus”

************------------------

From Zermatt to Brig, there seems direct train or one change, it take one and half hour to get to Brig, if it’s correct it will be interesting to take a day trip to Brig, with its town, palace, cable car to bettmeralp.

Wengen- Lauterbrunnen – Grindelwald to First (do the cliff walk) to Gross Scheidegg to Meiringen (Aare Gorge) to Brienz to Interlaken to Wengen is a great idea, will do! From Grindelwald, is it more direct? will save some time?

dugi_otok

>>Wengen- Lauterbrunnen – Grindelwald to First (do the cliff walk) to Gross Scheidegg to Meiringen (Aare Gorge) to Brienz to Interlaken to Wengen is a great idea, will do! From Grindelwald, is it more direct? will save some time?<<
Since this excursion starts at the Gondolabahn Grindelwald- First Station , if based in Wengen, you would have to take the train to Grindelwald. If based in Grindelwald you would walk to the station from your hotel. I would estimate that basing in Wengen adds almost one hour to the excursion. However the day you go to the Schilthorn the opposite is true since that excursion starts in Lauterbrunnen.

Hambagahle

The names listed on the SBB site are not all train stations. The SBB gives detailed transportation information for our entire transport network which includes buses, post buses and boats as well as trains. It is definitely THE site to use to get connection information here in Switzerland. The first name - or the one in bold - on the list is usually the main station but not always. The others can be bus stops or street addresses. If for example you want to find the way to your hotel on arrival in Zürich - put in Zürich, and then the street and number. You will be given choices to narrow this down. In Zürich "Zürich Flughafen" is the airport. Zürich HB is the main station. Chamonix Mt Blanc is the main train station. Chamonix Aiguille du midi is the valley station of the cable car that goes to the Aiguille du midi and so on...

Hambagahle

There are direct trains Zermatt/Brig every 30 mns. brig is a nice small town but I would not waste a day in Zermatt by going down to brig, walking around, visiting the Stockalper Palace and/or the Swiss Guards museum and then going back to zermatt. Once you are in Zermatt - stay IN Zermatt. There is plenty to do there. The only exception I would make would be if the weather in Zermatt is really bad I would go to the thermal baths at Brigerbad for the day. They are lovely. To get there - train to Visp and postbus to the baths. They are open year round.

jane86

Thank you both for your responses Hambagahle and dugi-otok

Any thing else would you recommend to do in Zerrnatt other than Thermal baths? Can you recommend some nice short hikes there? One and two 1/2 days are good? day one with short afternoon, second a whole day, third day till afternoon?

When leaving Zermatt, can consider staying overnight at Martigny, is it good?

For Geneva day trip, would you recommend to do from Montreux? What would suggest for Geneva?

Thank you again

dugi_otok

Map of Bernese Oberland

PalenQ

cable car to bettmeralp.>

Great day out - you do change at Visp or Brig for trains to Betteramp - well a cable way that takes you up to the village then another if I recall right to the longest glacier in the Alps. But I suggest you do Zermatt then base in Sion or Martigny and do those day trips.

neckervd

" But we would be interested in Neuschwanstein, WHICH IS THE BEST"

Who told you such a nonsense?
Neuschwanstein is extremely popular with people from the USA because it doesn't look like a real European castle but like a Disneyland fairy tale castle.

neckervd

DAY TRIPS FROM ZERMATT
complete nonsense!

There are hundreds of kms of hiking trails around Zermatt, directly from the village or from the viewpoints Sunnega, Furi, Riffelap and others that you can reach by rope railway, gondola or train. For train or gondola trips into snow and ice, go to Gornergrat, Kleinmatterhorn, Trockener Steg or Riffelberg.

If you want to visit the castles of Brig, Sion or St. Maurice, the Ossuary at Naters, the underground lake of St. Leonard, the museums etc. at Martigny, the Salt mines at Bex, the thermal spas at Brigerbad, Leukerbad, Ovronnaz, Saillon or Lavey, you must do that the day you go down into the Rhone Valley, that means the day you move to Montreux.

jane86

Thank you neckervd , PalenQ and everyone for your inputs, good suggestions, and help. Looking into them, will come up with the final one, hopefully

Thanks again!

Hambagahle

I don't think you understood what I said! There are no thermal baths in Zermatt. They are in Brigerbad which is about 1 1/2hrs from Zermatt. Only go there if the weather in Zermatt is bad.

What do you do in Zermatt - you hike (or ski depending on the season). You walk around the village, go to the museum, the church (if that interests you) etc. You look at the views and take a LOT of photos.

Nice short hikes? The Five Lakes hike starting from Blauherd is very popular. So is the hike to Zmutt. Or to Furi from Zermatt. OR from the Gornergrat or Rotenboden down by the Riffelsee to Riffelalp. Go to the Zermatt tourist office site and search Hiking. They list maybe 100 or more hikes you can take. www.zermatt.ch

jane86

Thanks for your replies Hambagahle, understand now. I may plan to stay in Zermatt for three nights (two full days), since already up there. How about if they were both bad weather? With light clouds, should we still take an chance go up to Gonergrat? How about Matterhorn Glacier paradise? Likely for any of the Swiss alps in bernese oberland? We are not fans of thermal bath in general, what else could be options for cloudy days?

Thank you

PalenQ

Zermatt has few options for cloudy days except day tripping a long way by train to Rhone Valley - Berner Oberland has many easy day trips if funky weather.

jane86

We consider going to Sion for one day and Martigny for half day after coming down from Zermatt, it 's on route to Montreux, they are small towns but their historical sites such as castles, church, roman site etc seem worth seeing. For Brig, it would be close enough for a day trip, but you will lose the time on the mountain top, so you can't have everything...

PalenQ

Sometimes the weather in high Alps can be weird- could be funky at Matterhorn but on other side of mountain not - Saas-Fe for example is a primo resort in its own right. And weather reports are ubiquitous in hotels, etc. Saas-Fe is easy to get to from Zermatt - take train to St Niklaas and then a thrilling cliffside bus ride to town.

https://www.google.com/search?q=saas...w=1097&bih=535

I've stayed in Brig and Vevey - both are really neat towns but Brig I recall as bit nicer - castle in town and nice old town center.

dugi_otok

If you want to see the Matterhorn , stay in Zermatt at least 2 nights. If you want to do 2 excursions stay 3 nights. Do not stay in Brig and go to Zermatt as a day trip. Cross your fingers for good weather. You will see the Matterhorn even if it is from the village.This website might help you with the decision.
https://swissfamilyfun.com/zermatt-guide/

jane86

Thank you both PalenQ, dugi_otok

Is Saas Fee also above 4000 m? You mean bus will bring you up there? There seems to be 2 h 15 min's train one way, is it mainly a ski resort?

I guess you mean between Sion and Brig, not Vevey. Could we possibly do Brig and Sion in one day? We could come down to Brig from Zermatt in the evening, or early morning after finishing Zermatt, spend a few hours there, then take train to Sion (50 min) and see the two castles and one church, stay over at Sion, next day to Martigny.

dugi_otok: we just want to have backup plans for bad weather when we are up in Zermatt, thanks for the advice.

Hambagahle

To address several points raised above:

1. If there are light, broken clouds there is no problem at all in getting good even great views of the mountains. Indeed sometimes the Matterhorn looks even more dramatic with a plume of cloud trailing off it! What to do in Zermatt though if it is cold and wet? We sit by a fire, read, go for a nice lunch, read some more. Not ideal when you have travelled a long way to get there and want to see the Matterhorn - but that is about all you can do in bad weather. That and go to the cinema and see some of the old films they sometimes screen about the mountains, the climbers etc.
2. You can visit the old town of Sion in half a day but be aware it is a fair walk from the station and you have to climb a steep hill. Walk up the avenue de la Gare until you reach the place de la Planta. Turn right and walk along till you get to the rue de l'Ancien Pont. Turn left there. After a bit you will see the rue des Ch teaux going up to the right. Just walk up there. You can visit the church at the Valère and see the ruins of the castle on the Tourbillon. the church is fortified which is rare. Castle burnt down centuries ago and you can visit that too if you have the time. I would NOT combine this with Brig. To start with going to Brig takes you in the other direction and secondly though Brig is a pretty town it is not that pretty and doesn't have enough things of interest to warrant the detour.

3.* Martigny - if you are going to see the Roman ruins, which are extensive, and visit the Fondation Gianadda (art museum) and the "Barryland" - museum of St Bernard Dogs (with live dogs and often puppies too...)* you really need a whole day. In just an afternoon you could see the Roman ruins, or at least some of them and the main exhibition at the Gianadda but that is that. Until mid June the exhibition is a private collection of wonderful Impressionist paintings from Copenhagen. When the summer exhibition starts it will be Rodin and Giacometti and promises to be a "blockbuster". Then in Martigny there is also the ch teau de la B tiaz (11-12th century castle perched on a hill above the town in the vineyards) and the elegant Place Centrale with its cafés and restaurants and terraces under the plane trees.

4.* Saas Fee - a really "grungy" place and not well kept up especially in summer with no snow to "hide" things! The village is at 1800m. To get there you have to take a bus from either Visp if arriving by train or Stalden if coming down from Zermatt. Get the connections on www.sbb.ch/en It is not worth the time it takes to get there IMO and if you are in Zermatt you will be let down by Saas Fee. It is a ski resort and a climbing/hiking centre but not in the same class as Zermatt.