I've been reading the posts re: driving in Ireland, as I'll be renting a car and driving during my February trip to Northern Ireland and Co. Donegal in the Republic. Several of the rental car companies offer an "all inclusive" rate that includes Collision Damage Waiver -- however, they have an "excess" (what those of us in the U.S. would call a "deductible&quot.

The amount of the deductible is based on the type of car one rents. For the category I'm looking at (next to the lowest price) I learned that the deductible/excess is 500 GBP. Added insurance to cover the excess is quite expensive (almost $200) -- but I thought it would be worth the peace of mind -- especially since I'm nervous about driving in Ireland.

But, I thought I'd check with my credit card company (CitiCard MasterCard-- of course the kind that accrues AA Advantage miles!) to learn if they provide any coverage that might offset the deductible. I was shocked to learn that, provided the car is booked and paid for with the Citicard, they will cover 100% of any damage -- with NO deductible.

BUT, this only applies if you deny ALL insurance coverage from the rental company. If one books an "all inclusive" rate that includes any Collision Damage insurance -- you forfeit this benefit from the credit card company.

So, I'll get complete coverage (with no deductible) but only if I book the rental through a company whose rates are NOT for "all inclusive" coverage. This saves even more $$$. I thought I'd pass along the tip.

FYI, I've asked my credit card company to send me confirmation of this IN WRITING. You might want to check with your companies as well before booking a car.

Now, I just hope I don't get to use any of the insurance!

I just booked at car in Italy with Autoeurope and was told that there is a 200E deductible in case of damage even though their rate includes insurance. I had never heard that before. Thanks for the good tips.

Hi S,

Glad you learned about coverage through your CC.

Keep in mind that some things (tires, glass, undercarriage...) are not covered.

Hi ek,

Check with AutoEurope again. They sometimes offer the same coverage as the CC policies for a small fee.

One other point. Just rented a car for Ireland and AutoEurope's deductible was 1650.00 and Kenwel was 1050.00.

It is also possible sometimes to buy a policy from a company, for example Travelguard, that will cover the CDW.
It is much less costly than the coverage purchased from the car rental companies.
Some people do not have a credit card that will cover them, especially in Northern Ireland.
A $200 excess is not very costly, but I wouldn't want to be hit with a $1600 bill for a one or two week rental.
Ira also has a good point about the tires and windshields.

If I recall correctly, your Visa or MC card will cover damage ONLY if it is a gold or platinum card. And be sure that you present the same card when you pick up the car as you used when first arranging it. And, yes, you must decline all coverage from the rental company.

Coincidentally I have just got off the phone with Amex regarding their corporate card insurance when I saw this thread. Amex corporate insurance covers any damage, including damage to glass and even tires, provided it is not considered 'wear and tear' damage. So if a thief smashes his way into the car or a vandal slashes the tires, this is covered - but not if you drive the car over a nail and puncture the tire that way. I can't imagine how the undercarriage could get damaged except through misuse of the car (e.g. driving off-road, in which case it isn't covered) but I suppose it's worth getting down on one's hands and knees and checking before signing out the car, to see if any is there!

As Songdoc reminds us, it is important not to sign on with any of those 'insurance inclusive' deals if one wants this kind of coverage to be valid.

I must stress that this coverage isn't valid in: Italy, Australia, New Zealand, and parts of Costa Rica and parts of Portugal.

Also, this is for the Amex corporate card - other Amex cards often have different coverage levels, so check. I also have a Citicard Mastercard, but not the kind that accumulates AA miles, so don't know if all Citicards have the type of coverage that Songdoc's does.

vedette,

Visa does not cover CDW in Ireland. You need a gold or platinum Master Card with a credit limit of a couple of thousand dollars. It is always best to check with your credit card company directly in advance. Diner's Club also covers CDW in Ireland, but once again you must be sure of everything in advance.

Another thing to keep in mind with MasterCard. Who ever is driving must use THEIR card to reserve & charge the car on. i.e. if the wife is driving the husband can't charge it on his card and vice versa. If you are paying for an extra driver they must be listed on the rental agreement and then they will be covered.

I just received a Visa Guide to Benefits which becomes effective on 1/1/06. If I did, you did. SAVE IT.

Under the section on Auto Rental it states, "No benefit is provided for motor vehicles rented in Israel, Jamaica, the Republic of Ireland, or Northern Ireland".

An older Mastercard agreement (2004) in the section devoted to car insurance reads: "You may be unable to use this service in Australia, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, or New Zealand".

There are many, many posts about this subject if you want a few hours worth of reading - some facts and lots of opinions.

For many years now Visa has NOT covered rental car insurance in Ireland. Master Card HAS. They used to provide you with a letter if you asked for it stating that, but apparently no longer do that (I guess too many people were asking). They tell you to refer any questions from the car rental people to their website or toll free number. But I rented a car in Ireland using MC, denied the CDW and no one asked any questions. It's done all the time.

In the rest of Europe, including Italy, both MC and Visa WILL cover you. The thing in Italy is their laws, not the credit card company's which state you must take the car agency insurance. One way to get around this, if you are going to any other country (France, Germany, etc) in addition to Italy, is to rent the car in that country. You ARE covered while driving in Italy with the credit card coverage, you just can't pick up your car there.

If you use your credit card for car rental insurance, and you do a lot of damage to the car, they have the right to put a hold on your card until the credit card company settles things (could take months). For that reason, you need a second credit card so you can continue charging things on your vacation. So in Ireland I used my MC to charge the car rental but also had a Visa card. I do that anyway, but in case you only have one credit card you should think of getting a second one. Good idea when traveling anyway in case one is lost or stolen you don't have to be without one while waiting for the replacement.

Alot of people say it's not "worth" the trouble, or anxiety or whatever to use the credit card insurance. But as you have pointed out, it not only costs more to rent the car with the insurance, but the insurance doesn't even cover the most likely damage - scratches, dents and small things that cost up to $500 or whatever the deductible is. So when you add it all up you save hundreds of dollars using the credit card insurance.

Isabel, it is true that most CC insurance will cover you in - for example - Italy, provided you *initiate* the car rental contract *outside* of that country. However, given that many renters are only interested in driving within the bounds of a given country, it would not be a practical option to travel to, say, Austria, for the purpose of driving a car in Tuscany. Most particularly, it would not be economically feasible as a one-way rental (i.e, pick up in Austria, drop in Italy) in light of the hefty drop-off fees that usually apply across borders. But yes, you are technically correct, and the employees of CC companies are using imprecise terminology when they answer customer inquiries.

And it is true that credit cards vary in the extent of coverage provided, including what countries are included or excluded from the coverage. I don't see anyone making any irresponsible blanket statements to that effect. My comments referred to Amex corporate, and I made that pretty clear. I've no idea why AMEX doesn't provide coverage in any given one of the countries listed, be it local laws, some reason of the company's own, or some combination of the two. The point is, it hardly matters.

In my (Citi Platinum) Mastercard certificate, it reads: "In some jurisdictions...the law requires rental agencies to include CDW in the price of the car rental. In these locations, Citibank Collision/Loss Damage Waiver benefits will only provide coverage for any deductible that may apply, provided al the requirements outlined in this Certificate have been met and you have waived the rental agency's deductible waiver." Here's the problem - if you can't, in effect, waive the CDW, because it has already been included in the price by law, then the CC coverage isn't valid. Why is it a matter of opinion, as opposed to fact, to say this?

The last time I checked with AAdvantage MC,they also have a maximum coverage of 15 thousand US dollars per rental which is obviously below the price of any 4 passenger car. So what if the car rented in Switzerland gets stolen....in Italy for example.

The car rental company in Switzerland, Austria, or Germany will also require you to sign that you will not be driving their car into Italy. If don't sign it, they require you to buy the additional insurance.

Thanks for the tip, Songdoc! Would you mind posting this story on my site as well (copyright laws...)? I am sure people can benefit a lot from your experience. Check out htpp://www.touristripoffs.com, thanks a lot!!!!

Have a good day,

Rock Fella

Sue - I was not saying that you, or anyone else in this particular thread, was giving opinion versus fact. What I meant was that there are numerous - probably at least 20 or so, threads regarding the subject of whether or not you can/should use the credit card company insurance. I was suggesting that if someone wanted to read a lot about the subject they could do a search. However, many of THOSE threads that would come up are full of misleading opinions as oppossed to facts. Sorry you misunderstood.

Rock Fella - I'm waiting to receive a confirmation (in writing) from my credit card company before I post on your site. I'll let those who follow this thread know what I learn, as well.

My experience is that the bank that issues the car doesn't have a clue as to what the coverage is. The coverage is from MC, not the bank so all info should come from them. The dollar amount on mine was $50,000 so it seemed ok since I rent a pretty small car most of the time.

Bill

Songdoc, when my DH and I decided to apply for a Citibank Mastercard (also through AA), that feature was a large selling point for us. We drive in Europe quite frequently and having the opportunity to waive the extra CDW saves quite a bit of money over time.

Thanks for posting!
Tracy

Isabel, the only thing you need to regret is that by introducing the topic of fact versus opinion, not to mention talking about other <i> posts </i> when it would have been less ambiguous to talk about other <i> threads </i> ------is that you almost succeeded in burying Songdoc's extremely important point.

And that is, that the term 'CDW' is used very liberally by car rental agencies and brokers, and for a reason that has everything to do with securing more profit for themselves. What they wish the hapless renter to believe is that by accepting the package, one's credit card coverage won't apply, since by accepting the package, one has supposedly accepted 'the' CDW - and as we all know, cc coverage requires one to 'decline the CDW.' Nooooot quite. At least in Mastercard's Platinum coverage brochure, they specify one must 'decline the CDW, or LDW, <i> or similar provision. </i> (italics mine).

And indeed, there is a similar provision that one often has the option of declining, even if one has bought a so-called 'inclusive' package.
This is because, as the terms of many offers make clear, by buying said package one has often only accepted, at best, a partial amount of CDW from the agency. The agency makes that clear with words to the effect that 'whether the renter has accepted or declined the CDW, the renter is still liable [for a specified value of damage or loss to the car by certain specified damages.] The agency actually concedes that one has not only not accepted a waiver to such damage liability, but that under the so-called 'included' CDW it CAN'T be accepted - it is a 'non-waivable excess' or some such weasel-like term. As Songdoc points out, note how careful they are to use a word like 'excess' instead of 'deductible' - because it is unfamiliar to many prospective customers.

Here's where it gets interesting. They next list, as an option, that one may 'limit' one's liability to this non-waivable excess by purchasing......well, various terms apply, but the one most commonly used is 'super-CDW' or alternatively, 'zero excess coverage' or some such. In other words, the liability IS in fact, waivable for an optional fee - just not under the terms of the so-called 'included' CDW. Again, note how careful they are to use the term 'zero excess' or some such, and to avoid using the term 'zero deductible' - even though in fact, both terms amount to the same thing.

Excess or deductible, limiting or waiving, what one is doing when one agrees to purchase any additional optional coverage is to void any coverage that one's CC might already cover!!!

So the important question to ask oneself when considering a so-called 'inclusive' package is, just what is included, and what is not? Is what is EXcluded stuff that even your CC coverage won't cover (damage dues to abuse by you the renter, say) or stuff that your CC insurance WILL cover (damage or loss to/of the car by covered causes, and which is not otherwise covered by the rental agency's coverage)?

This is why I posted the relevant paragraph. True, Mastercard can't be held liable for what is already covered - either because the law required the rental agency to sell only rentals with such coverage included, or because one already paid the extra optional fee. However, even in countries where the law requires such coverage to be included, Mastercard notes they will still 'provide coverage for any deductible that may apply.' (see 'Eligibility'). So, even in countries like Ireland, coverage might be provided that would reduce your liability (deductible, excess, whatever) to zero when certain events occur, provided you don't pay any additonal and optional fees to the rental agency/broker.

Okay . . . I've now heard back from the credit card company and the rental car companies. CitiCard (gold MasterCard) does indeed cover CDW and theft (up to $50,000) -- PROVIDED I DECLINE ALL OTHER COVERAGE. The car rental agencies (Kemwel and AutoEurope -- which seem to be the same company) responded that this is fine -- as long as I bring the document that confirms the coverage provided by my credit card.

That's the good news. The bad news is that I could have gotten a rental car at another agency that INCLUDES the CDW -- for about the same price!

This is a recurring discussion. Car rental in reland IS the worst part of the trip.
To see previous thread on this topic:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34564682

Bob