Ingo

Hello to you Switzerland lovers!<BR><BR>Have a peaceful Christmas and a contemplative time with your family!<BR><BR>Grasshopper: you know that you make me envious? I am sure you enjoy your cross-country skiing. <BR><BR>Not enough snow here for skiing. But we have some very few inches of snow, sun and –5 degrees Celsius. Also a winter wonderland!<BR><BR>Let me tell you that I went with my family to the Mass in the church of the Holy Cross in Dresden yesterday. Their famous boys choir uses to sing there every year. But this year, surprise, surprise, they performed the whole “Christvesper” program (ca. one hour) – a truly perfect evening. They boys choir sang, members of the Dresden philharmonic orchestra played the instruments. The atmosphere was overwhelming. Finally, at the end we all sang “O Du Fr&ouml;hliche …” (don’t know the English title), the church’s bells started ringing (I’ve never heard such a sound of ringing bells before) and when we left the church some snow flakes flew by.<BR><BR>The Mass was recorded by a TV station and will be shown – for those who will be in Europe – on Christmas Eve 2003 on ARTE TV.<BR><BR>Have a great holiday! And continue to share your thoughts and travel experiences!<BR><BR>Ingo<BR>

jw

Hi Everyone, I'm hoping your days 1 and 2 of Christmas were delightful and the same will hold true for the rest of the 12 days.<BR><BR>I have a few minutes to daydream, and I've been thinking of the positive comments Weggis has received recently. I think I've asked this before, but has anyone stayed in a smaller lakeside town of the Vierwaldstatter See? I've always had the impression that Weggis, Vitznau, and Brunnen were at the heavy big-hotel/condo end of the spectrum. But maybe I'm wrong about Weggis? I've had my eye on Gersau, and I'd like to hear from anyone who's spent an hour or so there.<BR><BR>And what about smaller lakes like the Zugersee and Walensee? Any thoughts or experiences? J.<BR><BR>p.s. S' post those pictures soon, please!<BR>pp.s. Last night I cooked bratwurst, red cabbage, and creamed potatoes w/onions and garlic. I'd love to read about what's been going on in your kitchens, especially if it is associated with travel memories.

s

Hello All,<BR><BR>Ingo, I don’t know if you’re surfing the web on your holiday, but I just had to post to tell you how much I enjoyed your description of Dresden at Christmas and the Christmas mass. Thanks to you, I got to share some of that wonderful winter wonderland even here in the southeast US. I hope that spirit of peace and beauty stayed with you through the holidays!<BR><BR>jw -- Sorry, I didn’t stop off in Gersau this trip. Yes, Weggis does seem to have more hotels than inhabitants My only caution might be that Gersau would be even more isolated than Weggis -- to be truthful, that extra hour for bus &amp; train from Luzern did get old. However, if you go in summer when the ferries run more frequently, that would be a minimal problem. <BR><BR>On an only marginally related topic, I got to thinking about the perfect size of Swiss villages/towns for me to enjoy my visit. I thought Weggis -- like Rivaz in Vaud -- is too small as a base. But Luzern is too big. Then I got to thinking about train stations and easy access to excursions. So I think I narrowed down my preferences to this: a town with a rail station of 5-10 tracks only. I think Montreux has, what, 8 tracks?? What do y’all think? Your criteria? I mean, aside from lake and mountain views!!!<BR><BR>s

Jan

Hi there,<BR>Yep, S. I agree with you! Weggis is beautiful, but for me, it is too small to use as a base. However, if you had a car, then, it becomes more doable. I like the size of a town like Lucerne. If I get lazy and don't feel like getting on the train, I can always find something to do. My criteria, for wherever I go, is the town must be scenic with a nice old town, accessible, have decent restaurants, good sized pedestrian areas and parks/playgrounds. Examples are Vevey, Montreux, Wengen, Thun (b/c it is not just a tourist destination) and Ascona. Those are just a few! <BR>Cheers,<BR>Jan

jw

Hi y'all. Well you already know that my requirement is that my base be an untrampled village w/in a half-hour or less distance from a rail hub (or hublette even). So Rivaz is perfect; it is an 18 minute ride from Lausanne every hour and 15 minutes from Montreux every hour, less to Vevey, and when you add the summer boats, there are even more possibilities. Same goes for Leissigen on Thun's lake. Gerra's connections with the outside world are not as convenient -- trains every 2 hours, buses in between, and lakeboat possibilities (though not covered by Swiss pass). Granted, these little places are roll-up-the-sidewalk types, but ah, I love to listen to the rustle of leaves, the lap-lap of waves at the water's edge, and birds. <BR><BR>I know you are correct that Gersau will be the most inconvenient of all, but I'm pretty stubborn. For easier connections, I'm thinking about my friends recommendation of Hergiswil -- but I have not heard anyone say that it is peaceful, so it might not be right for me.<BR><BR>So what about Walensee? Anyone? --J. <BR>

Ingo

Hi all,<BR><BR>Yes, I am surfing the net on my holiday, s! I love to follow your talk about the right size of a place to stay. And I have to add my two cents in!<BR><BR>Jw, Gersau is a nice little village, with less big hotels than Weggis and a real Swiss village atmosphere. Unfortunately it is quite a distance away from Lucerne and the connections are not the best … But, on the other hand it depends on which day trips you want to do. Buses/ferries are running frequently to Brunnen, Vitznau and the southern Lake Lucerne bank (ferries only of course to the latter). So, if you are into hiking Gersau is a very good choice to stay in. And in Brunnen you have access to the trains on the Gotthard route – Fl&uuml;elen, Altdorf, Zug are easily to reach.<BR><BR>I love to stay in places with less touristy atmosphere (more inhabitants than beds for tourists). And I like to have good shopping (groceries), bakery, bank, a sports gear store and a railway station with information desk nearby. I think on Lake Geneva Vevey is my favourite. I stayed in Montreux and it was a close second best (sorry, s). <BR><BR>I am considering Hotel Krone in Thun’s old town for a stay (can get a bargain). <BR><BR>I was very pleased with Stans near Lake Lucerne – not right on the lake, but I did not mind. BTW, Hergiswil was not so much charming in my eyes. Not even a sunny place (at least in Oct.) and it seemed to me that there was no real village centre (a market square or so) where you could stroll around. Good connections to Lucerne and other places, though. <BR><BR>I was very satisfied with Locarno, which has the right size and charm, and is a hub for public transportation. <BR><BR>In the Engadine Samedan and Scuol are my favourites for their railway/bus hub and the authentic small town flair (little squares, cobbled streets, beautiful houses, more locals than tourists).<BR><BR>I was not really satisfied with Lauterbrunnen, because it seemed to me that it is at first a place to change trains. I missed the locals and urban atmosphere.<BR><BR>Jw, sorry, but I don’t know much about Walensee lake. I have been for a day trip to Quinten, a very small car-free village, sunny, with two good restaurants. No place to stay.<BR><BR>Enjoy your holidays!<BR><BR>Ingo<BR>

Grasshopper

Happy New Year everyone!<BR><BR>Snowing like crazy here after a week of sunny but cold days. Tonight is a torchlight parade down the mountain followed by fireworks at midnight.<BR><BR>I hope you all are celebrating and enjoying the holiday.<BR><BR>Grasshopper

jw

Hi and Happy New Year. <BR><BR>Grasshopper, the torchlight parade down the mountain sounds glorious. I suppose that is a tradition in all mountain areas, yes, Ingo?<BR><BR>It is such a kick to read your notes after several days of being offline. (Aside: I have a problem with my computer turning itself off after a few seconds of booting--if that's even the correct term; the supprt tech at Microsoft says it's a hardware problem and I'd better see to it. Any suggestions or insights? -- but I'm postponing until I get my exam grades safely onto a floppy in case I lose my programs in the repair process-- yes, S', can you believe it--I still have not graded the exams, let alone entered them.)<BR><BR>S! Thanks for starting a topic to jumpstart our conversations! Ingo, you mentioned Stans, and I looked it up on the map -- I was familiar w/Stansstad but not Stans. Does it meet your requirements? I'm still pretty set on Gersau. As for Hergiswil, it was my friends' choice for a place to stay on a rail line as close to Lucerne as possible, and they really liked the Roggerli, its price and its view--but they never did mention spending any time in the suburb itself. I'll certainly take it off my list based upon your assessment. How soon do you plan to visit Thun? I'll be interested to read about the ambiance. It has been maybe 15 years since I visited that old town, and after seeing how trampled Brienz has become since I stayed there the same year, I'm concerned that Thun has suffered from popularity as well. <BR><BR>Very near the top of my wishes for you all (right after good health and time with loved ones) is a 2003 with excellent travels -- sort of &quot;Happy Trails to You&quot;, if you happen to be a Roy Rogers fan. J.<BR><BR>

s

<BR><BR>Happy New Year!!<BR><BR>Jan, I love your additions! A pedestrian walkway, good restaurants, and an historic section are very important to me, too. I’m eager to get to Thun to check it out. Ascona may have to wait for a while -- the Ticino is so hard to get to for my slam-bang guerrilla vacations! What’s the lakeside of Ascona like? Is there a long promenade? Any great walking areas? I still can’t get over my envy of your current home! But I have been more alert to comments about Slovenia, and I think it too is full of treasures there for those who will find them! <BR><BR>jw, I suspect that I would enjoy the smaller villages more if I would travel in decent weather! During the Nov trip, I wanted to sit on a bench and memorize the sensations, but I had to keep moving for warmth! I think also the transportation connections are less convenient/frequent in winter. So it’s a trade-off, I guess. Even my larger towns are quiet in early winter. I can’t wait for you to get to Gersau and let us know how it fits. <BR><BR>How have your computer problems come out, jw? I guess you won’t be able to get anything done on your hardware today! Unfortunately, when my 1996 Dell crashed last year, I found it was cheaper to buy a new computer. That might be true for you, especially in the post-Christmas sales frenzy. Let us know how you work it out!<BR><BR>Ingo, I can see why you prefer Vevey, and I also love your preference for a place with more inhabitants than hotel beds. That’s a good call. The only reason I prefer Montreux is that Villeneuve-to-Clarens promenade. To me, that promenade is the main attraction. I also like your addition of a town square. I never thought of it before, but you’re right. When a town has a town square, it does add a certain “center” or “base” or foundation to discovering and understanding that place.<BR><BR>Now, Samedan is on the En, but it’s not on any lakes, right? I think I’ll take a look around the web to see if I’d like to spend time there vice Sils.<BR><BR>And, oh goodness, how many trips do you get to take into Switzerland each year, Ingo? You must be going four or five times for trips of every length -- short to long. I am envious because you‘re so close!<BR><BR>I think I’d like to find a me-place in each of the major sections of Switzerland. I’d like to find a “my Montreux” somewhere in the mountains and also in the Ticino. And you,jw? Are you looking for a “Gerra” or a “Rivaz” in Central Schweiz and in the Oberland? Ah, it’ll be a bear trying to find it, all those repeated trips to Switzerland. What a burden!<BR><BR>s

jw

S, you are such a kick -- possibly the only one who's not afraid to sound goofier than I do. (That's a compliment to your joyful abandon.) J.

Ingo

I am a bit late, I know, but … Happy New Year everyone!<BR><BR>As far as I know the torchlight parade is a traditional event in all ski resorts. I enjoyed it several times. Most fun is if you have a torch in your hand yourself and ski down to the valley. Once I did this after a spectacular concert on top of Mt. Corvatsch (3303 m) in the Engadine. It was part of the “Snow and Symphony” events late March.<BR><BR>I am sorry to hear about your computer problems, jw. I guess it must be a problem with your harddisk. Maybe you can try to boot your computer from the CD-ROM. I hope all your data files are saved to CD-ROM or Floppy disk.<BR><BR>Jw, Stans met my requirements perfectly. There is a nice little square in the town’s centre with two small three star hotels and a magnificent Baroque church. Only two hundred metres or so away you find the railway/bus station, a large COOP grocery and the station of the Stanserhorn cable car. For you lakeside promenade lovers it might be too far away from Lake Lucerne, though. BTW, the connections to Lucerne are frequent till late in the evening since it is right on the railway route Lucerne-Engelberg (Hey, the railway’s name is Luzern-Stans-Engelberg-Bahn). And by bus you can easily reach Buochs (10 min., ferry station), Beckenried (cable car to Klewenalp) and Seelisberg right opposite Brunnen (funicular to Treib ferry station) close to the R&uuml;tli meadow.<BR><BR>I hope to visit Thun this spring, maybe for a short holiday in May. My last short visit to Thun dates back to 2000. I found it to be charming, not crowded and still quite non-touristy.<BR><BR>Gersau is probably a good choice for you if you are not focused on Lucerne visits. It is perfect to explore some remote valleys east of the lake.<BR><BR>S, Ascona has a very short and crowded promenade – totally different from Montreux’ Quai des fleurs. You would like Locarno much more I guess. Ascona has a nice old town with narrow cobbled streets (pedestrian zone) and fantastic walking paths on the hill toward Monte Verita (stairs!). But Locarno is still my favourite in this region. Its Piazza Grande has real Grandezza, the old town is not as much touristy as Ascona’s and I especially like the easy and frequent rail/bus connections.<BR><BR>I definitely agree with that lake promenade in Villeneuve-Clarens. It is THE main attraction. Not to beat. I also liked the food market on the Marche couvert.<BR><BR>Samedan has no lake or “promenade”. You would be disappointed if you were looking for that. Sils is definitely a better choice for you. But don’t forget about Hotel Waldhaus am See in St. Moritz. Very close to the railway station/bus stop, but quiet with stunning views. It is located approx. 20 meters above the lake’s level. A nice promenade with benches leads around Lake St. Moritz. It suffers from traffic noise on the village side, but 70% of the promenade are really beautiful.<BR><BR>Don’t be too envious! The drive to Switzerland takes me about 6 to 9 hours depending on traffic and destination. It doesn’t take you much more time by plane! I hope to go to Switzerland at least five times next year. We’ll see …<BR><BR>Enjoy the few days till work begins again!<BR><BR>Ingo<BR>

Phil

Hello to all, and happy new year to everybody,<BR><BR>I'm glad to find this thread still alive. And with new topics as well (actually I'm neither skier nor alpine hiker, so there was not much to contribute for me).<BR><BR>I think most of you will like Thun. It is not really a tourist town, but rather the administrative centre of the Bernese Oberland- There are *many* more inhabitants than hotel rooms. There is no risk of it becoming touristy like Brienz or Interlaken.<BR><BR>It has a nice old town, partially on an Island between two arms of the river Aare and nice walks along Lake Thun. The only drawback is its enormous barracks north of the Centre: Thun holds Switzerland's largest military training centre, so you will risk to meet lots of soldiers during the evenings almost all year.<BR><BR>On the eastern part of Lake Geneva, Montreux really is at the limit of &quot;too touristy&quot; to my taste, though the upper reaches of the old town towards the local museum and the old church are really charming. I rather like the smaller communities east of Montreux: Villeneuve, Le Bouveret and St.-Gingolph, the latter two on the south side of lake Geneva and really quiet and not too touristy.<BR><BR>When near Stans (Stansstad actually means &quot;port of Stans&quot; in older versions of the local dialect, compare Alpnach and Alpnachstad), you might want to check out the Obwalden part of Unterwalden: A narrow-gauge railway runs from Lucerne to Sarnen, Sachseln, Lungern, across the Br&uuml;nig pass to Meiringen. Sarnen is a rival to Stans, sitting on its own smaller lake. Sachseln is the home of our national patron saint and has a beautiful baroque church, and Lungern sits on an even smaller lake and was very popular in the early 20th century as a resort.<BR><BR>As to Ticino, I do not really like Ascona, as it has been attracting the &quot;rich and famous (and self-styled beautiful people)&quot; for the major part of a century. Incidentally, Ascona is one of the few communities in Ticino, where italian is first Language to a *minority* of its residents (go and figure, how &quot;genuine&quot; the place still is). I vastly prefer Locarno (if you need an urban feel) or the communities on the south shore of Lago Maggiore. As a child, I spent many of my summer holidays in the Val Colla region north of Lugano. There are many places still untouched by mass tourism: Lugaggia, Tesserete, Sonvico, Bigorio (with a Capuchin monastery my father longed to visit, because he had been told about the wonderful wine the brothers were cultivating. Well, after a 3 hour hike, that was in 1962 and public transport was practically non-existant, a burly Capuchin welcomed us, and seeing me, with my 5 years, went on to serve also my parents - raspberry syrup).<BR><BR><BR>I hope you will enjoy this year's trips. Maybe you would like to visit another part of Switzerland, which has hardly ever got any attention on this board: the Jura Hills stretching from geneva to the Basel region?<BR><BR>Phil.

jw

Hi y'all. Thank you so much S' for jump-starting our thread! You're exactly right -- I do keep searching for places in other areas which will nestle in my heart as do Rivaz and Gerra (and Ingo, you might be interested to know--as do Uberlingen, Neckar Gmund, Harburg, and Miltenberg). I think I can safely add Leissigen on Thunsee and Rapperswil as places I'd happily 'force' myself to inhabit. But, ah, what about all the other places? If I were able to visit Switzerland more often, I'd devote one trip to sampling every one of the top ten villages recommended by you folks -- sort of like a chocolate box 'sampler'. Yum. Did I say 10? more like 20. I'd have to check out both Samedan and Sils, Zuoz a Guarda, and Soglio; Gersau, Stans, and Sachseln; the villages of Walensee; Ligerz and Twann on Bielersee; Rougemont and Gsteig; St. Gingolph (or Le Bouveret?) and St. Prex; and I still want to stay at that little lakeside hotel on lake Lugano (can't remember the name, near Castagnola) so I can sneak over to take a look at the touns on lake Como. Well I've obviously used up my space. <BR><BR>Ingo, five visits a year breaks my heart -- thanks for mentioning the 9-hour drive, that eases the pain. And Phil! Tell us more about Val Colla! Affectionately, J.

jw

p.s. (surprise, surprise)<BR>That should be &quot;and Guarda&quot;.<BR>I am absolutely thrilled to read, Ingo and Phil, that Thun is still wonderful! And, Ingo, I love old town squares, too. Should anyone like to compare/contrast (as teachers say when giving essay questions on exams) the villages I've listed for a particular area, feel free! School starts Monday.

s

Hello All,<BR><BR>Phil, how nice to hear from you again; I think it’s been a long, long time, yes?<BR><BR>I’m hoping to spend at least one day in Thun during my next B.O. trip, still scheduled for the end of this month. I get more and more intrigued about it from all these descriptions. Maybe I’ll find a cozy hotel and add yet another wonderful place to plant myself temporarily in Switzerland!<BR><BR>I’m also very intrigued about seeing Swiss soldiers, maybe starting a dialogue? I’m a retired US soldier and, like jw, love to compare and contrast!<BR><BR>Well, I agree about Montreux; it can be very, very touristy. I’ve been there in August only twice, and almost got crowded off the promenade. But just as you say, the old town in the hills as well as the suburbs of Veytaux or Territet are charming. I also like the towns around the lake; I just got to visit Celigny and really fell in love with it. <BR><BR>Love your story about your father! He never got a sip of that mythical wine, eh?<BR><BR>About the Jura hills, I think you or Ingo mentioned the Doubs Valley and Ste Ursanne a long time ago. Is this the area you’re speaking of? I remember that I found some online photos of Ste Ursanne and put it on my must-see list, although it’s kind of low on the list. I’ll definitely do some searching and see if I can find out more.<BR> <BR>Ingo, I thank you for your advice about Sils vice Samedan, and I’ll certainly heed it! And the Waldhaus am See in St Mortiz will also be a high contender for this summer/fall’s visit. But I will take some special time to slow down and enjoy Samedan as I pedal (or wheeze) through it!<BR><BR>Ohhhhh jw, I’m so sorry you have to go back to work Monday. We‘ve enjoyed your many posts here lately. Well, I know I have!! I love the way you focus on the villages that most of us overlook, and I also love the way you embrace and research new tidbits to discover (happily and idiotically stuck, as I usually am, in Montreux). I hope you are a busy little Fodorite this weekend before you get back to the grind on Monday!<BR><BR>And, well, of course, what true fan can contain his/her joy???<BR><BR>And how is the new year shaping up for all of you? I hope it has already brought the first fruits of many good things.<BR><BR>s

Ingo

Welcome back, Phil! I must admit I missed the little villages east of Montreux so far. I approached Montreux from this direction (St. Moritz – Oberalp – Furka, no motorways) and found this area too full of shopping centres and not really charming. Maybe it was because of the long, strenuous drive. My favourites were the little villages in Lavaux, especially Lutry.<BR><BR>Thanks for mentioning Sarnen – I recall that I once drove through this nice little town on my way to Lauterbrunnen. It must be very nice. At least I found the route via Br&uuml;nig Pass beautiful, but w/o spectacular views.<BR><BR>Recently I read about another non-touristy valley in Ticino: Val Muggio in Mendrisiotto. I would like to know if someone has been there and how he/she liked it. I am assuming there must be great hiking opportunities in this valley. But what about public transportation, accommodation and restaurants/groceries? <BR><BR>I know I owe the Jura mountains a visit. Unfortunately I had to cancel my St. Ursanne trip last year. Hopefully I will be able to combine St. Ursanne with Thun this spring. BTW, I found a guide book (Baedeker) about Basel under the Christmas tree … <BR><BR>S, try Hotel Krone in Thun, right on the old market square with nice view of the castle and a terrace (summer, of course!) right on the Aare river. <BR><BR>Don’t you all think we should plan a Support Group GTG in the Engadine this summer/fall?<BR><BR>Right now I am busy with planning my “last minute” skiing vacation. (I became cautious, because the snow conditions were lousy last year. So I use to make reservations a week or two in advance. Seems that I was right, because the snow situation is still very bad in the northern Alps – no skiing below 1500 meters!) Again I had a look at the Engadine, but I feel that I have to explore other areas, too. There is a fantastic bargain in Adelboden, but I have doubts about snow conditions and cross-country skiing opportunities. We’ll see …<BR><BR>Enjoy your travels,<BR><BR>Ingo<BR><BR>PS: jw, I just found on the internet a small and cosy B&amp;B in Celerina. Its name is Chesa Nick Garni, www.chesa-nick.ch Only in German, but with beautiful photos and you will also find the rates (“Preise”). Quiet location right in the centre, a few steps away from the railway station. No lake promenade though.<BR>

Grasshopper

Count me in for the Engadine GTG. And to make things easy, I'm completely flexible as to dates and accommodations. All I require is an opportunity to do one fun bike ride, have a great meal with you all and drink some good wine. I am completely confident that you all, with your immense knowledge, experience and zest for life will come up with something fun.

s

Hello Folks,<BR><BR>Oh yes, I too am in for an Engadin GTG this summer/fall. <BR><BR>Even though I know the fall would be the ideal time for this, I wonder if I could suggest a summer date (I’d like to teach more classes this fall). A summer date may also allow more folks to join us -- maybe Jan and her children could come over from Slovenia and jw may possibly maybe somehow miraculously be able to go?<BR><BR>So if I suggest June, July, or early August, one of you can narrow it down further with a specific month!<BR><BR>Then we can see if we’d all like to stay in the same village? Or meet somewhere on a certain day?<BR><BR>Anyway, what a great new inducement for the next trip!<BR><BR>s

Jan

HI all,<BR>A GTG in the Engadine?! Hmmm...something to think about. We have no plans this summer yet so it may be doable. We are leaving Switzerland on mar 31st and moving to Ljubljana. By that time, we just may need a visit back!<BR><BR>Cheers to all...and finally, the temp has dropped. Maybe the snow condition in the N. Alps will turn around!<BR><BR>Jan

jw

&quot;miraculous&quot; it would indeed be, S. Oh, you all, what a delightful idea. But, for my part, we'll just have to synchronize our watches, set a gasthof, and I'll place a telephone call to wherever you are -- so I can hear your happy voices -- perhaps you can clink your glasses, or ring your cowbells, or sing a song in Romansch (?), or whatever. <BR>Affectionately, J.<BR>and p.s. Has anyone heard from Ursula?