Hi everyone!

My husband and are planning a trip to Germany the end of November. We will be flying into Berlin, and flying out of Zurich, Switzerland 2 weeks later.

I am looking for a suggested itinery of interesting "off the beaten path" sites, restaurants and small clean hotels. This is our first time to Germany, but we've traveled extensively and are not interested in museams necessarily. We are thinking of traveling through Berlin, Nuremberg, Munich and Zurich, but no plans yet. If you can suggest any interesting villages in between, please tell. Love architecture and the culture and prefer to mingle with the locals. We happen to be big foodies, as well, so any food/restaurant suggestions are appreciated. Wine is one of our favs too...but we not sure about German wines. Might have to do beer on this trip.

My husband prefers the rail system, but I think we would see more driving. How intimidating is the driving there? Is it easy to navigate through the larger cities of Berlin and Munich? He has driven in the UK, so I would think the driving issue would be a cake-walk for him. Perhaps your comments would help convince him.

Are there any ski areas/snow recreation open at this time of year? Outdoor ice skating rinks? Christmas markets that are unique? Definitely will need to find a coo-coo clock.

We are very active, in our 40's, and need little rest. We plan to pack alot in, and relax a bit once we return.

I am looking forward to your feedback. Thank you in advance!

I will grace you with a full report once we return. =)

Sorry,I have no idea about you itinerary, but I suggest you repost with a better heading. This will enable you to receive the necessary advice you seek.

Thanks...Point well taken.

We are also foodies who rarely step into museums and we've travelled through both countries extensively.

BERLIN Restaurants:
FACIL (star chef) inside Hotel Mandala at Potsdamerplatz.
BORCHART (gourmet German traditional/nouveau fusion) just west of Gendarmen Markt.
LUTTER WEGNER (Very good winebar or restaurant in multiple locations with semi gourmet quality). Main location in Gendarmen Markt. Other branches

other branches: Alte Potsdamerstr 5, Oranienburgstrasse near Friedrichstr crossstreet.
DIEKMANN on Meineckestr in Charlottenburg, West Berlin.

If you are into red wines you'll find nice German reds at Lutter Wegner such as the August Kesseler Spaetburgunder (= Pinot Noir)top red wines (30-60 euro retail). It is the top producer for red Pinot in Germany. Austrian wines tend to be a much better deal for very high quality red wines. You'll be impressed with any "Pannobile" wine (around 22-35 eur)but I think the best Pannobile is from Heinrich. http://www.pannobile.at/start.php
I also find great value reds (try the classic Zweigelt or Blaufrankish for 13 euro/bottle & up)from Iby winery who makes only red wines.
www.iby.at/vap/1005/Pg/p7/index.html

There is another Lutter & Wegner in Charlottenburg on Schlueterstrase 55. BTW the one on Alte Potsdamerstr is called Weinhaus Huth (Potsdamer Platz)
www.lutter-wegner.de/


OTTENTHAL (Austrian cuisine in a rather simple looking restaurant) on Kantstrasse 153, Charlottenburg.

GUGELHOF (Alsatian cuisine, low price, relaxed & plain interior and gets really loud) on Knaackstr. 37 in Prenzlauerberg (artistic/bohemian part of Berlin).


IN MUNICH:

Michelin star restaurant "AM MARSTALL" across the street from Hotel Vier Jahreszeiten Kempinski. Great food and impeccable formal but very friendly service.

TANTRIS is the other star Michelin restaurant in Munich.

The restaurant MARK'S inside the upscale Mandarin Oriental Hotel is another award winning restaurant choice.

A famous gourmet shop & restaurant in Munich is called "KAEFER". It has 2 restaurants and a bistro plus other nationwide branches . I think the best/original Kaefer is on Prinz Regentenstrasse. In this particular restaurant, they use only gourmet materials and charge extra for everything down to every slice of dinner bread, the gourmet shop below the restaurant has a lot of charm/atmosphere to wander before dinner. The gourmet shop competitor is the traditional DAHLMEYER(sort of a lesser Fauchon of Munich) just east of the Rathaus in Marienplatz which also has a nice dining room above the shop. Rathauskeller in Marienplatz has a nice atmosphere if you want to sample standard traditional german meals with the crowd. Another basic but decent Bavarian traditional chain restaurant is Spatenhaus.

To be quite frank about it, I think the person not doing the driving will end up seeing more than the driver so I can kinda see why he p[refers the rail idea or are the driving chores going to be shared?

Munich is one of the last places I would choose to be driving around in a car. If anything I would park it somewhere (and the parking issue in cities can be a whole other conversation) and make use of the excellent transport systems in just about all the cities you have mentioned.

OTOH driving would give you maximum flexibility to explore some of those "off the beaten path" locations you would enjoy.

If you get tired of German food, which I'm sure you'll be by the time you get to Munich, I have two favorite Italian restaurants that I've been to a few times and always had a great meal. Just great Italian food for foodies (better selections than the basic pasta & pizza)in a relaxed atmosphere and not expensive at all.

TALAMONTI Bistro & Restaurant on Hochbrückstrasse 3, a few blocks walk along Talstrasse east of Marienplatz, then turn northeast. Very crowded & loud, if you book in advanced ask for the main dining room with table cloth. Without reservation you'll end up in the back room sitting in highchairs at a high table with no table cloth, or even worse at the bar with tiny tables sitting on bar chairs. Most of the Italian waiters speak limited English or German for that matter.

LOCANDA PICOLIT, Siefriedstr 13 in Schwabing, northern Munich district. A simple neighborhood restaurant but the food is always great (more refined than basic Italian). We always take a taxi there but you can even take public transport as it is only a couple short blocks off the main shopping boulevard.

I agree with Dukey, I wouldn't bother driving in Munich or Berlin. It's busy, confusing and hard to find parking even though I've managed to do it OK quite a few times by seriously studying the map & oneway routes beforehand. Taxi in Germany is relatively reasonable. Rent a car only when you want to get out of town if you must have a car.

Sorry I got the restaurant Weinhaus Huth mixed up, it's actually "Diekmann im Weinhaus Huth". It is a very nice simple winebar restaurant serving really wondeful French styled German food. More in the comfort food style rather than "less is more" style. Friendly personalized service with great wine selection. The other Diekmann is on Meinekestrasse just off Ku'damm, this one was full of French tourists when I was there.