Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Stuart's Washington, daVinci's Mona Lisa and a question or two from Fowler

Stuart's Washington, daVinci's Mona Lisa and a question or two from Fowler

Sep 26th, 2001, 08:48 AM
  #21  
wes fowler
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I'm in awe! Can't believe that accurate answers to the origins and purpose of three obscure British organizations could materialize so quickly. Can I try again? If I'm wandering through Upper Bavaria in autumn and I attend a Viehscheid and a Leonhardiritt what will I encounter? Why?
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 12:06 PM
  #22  
I Love
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
From september 11th to about the 20th there is a event in
Allgäu - Bavaria called "Viehscheid" this is when the Cows
come down from the Huts on high ground, where they have
grazed for the summer getting fat.
On the Viehscheid the cows are separated from each other,
the Herdsman calls out the name of the owners and each
owner takes care of his cows.
There is always a big party when the cows come down, with a
large beer-tent, orchestra playing and so on.


 
Sep 26th, 2001, 12:09 PM
  #23  
I got them
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
St. Leonard's Day, celebrated on November 6, is also not an official holiday. In rural Bavaria, especially Upper Bavaria, it is still observed.
St. Leonard is considered the patron saint of horses. In many towns a "Leonhardiritt" (Leonard Ride) takes place. Originally only riders took part in the procession, later carts for the womenfolk were added. The procession rounds the church three times and the horses are blessed.
The most famous ride is the one held in Bad Tölz.
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 01:26 PM
  #24  
Beth
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
It is much more practical to sit for a portrait with one's mouth closed. Have you tried holding the same smile for hours?
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 02:01 PM
  #25  
johng
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Book Chick: The painting you are refering to is Jan Van Eyck's Giovanni Arnolfini And His Bride. It does look like Jeanne (the woman) is pregnant. But,if you look closer you will notice she is holding the train of her gown in her hand in front of her. I don't know whether this was to show the volume of material used in the dress (which would connote wealth) or that Van Eyck wanted her hand placed in front, rather than clumsily hanging at her side. I highly doubt Van Eyck would deliberately infer that Jeanne was pregnant before her wedding day. This painting was commissioned and it is unlikely that Arnolfini would have paid for a portrait that was insulting.
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 02:12 PM
  #26  
Book Chick
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
JG,
Thanks for the info; knew it was a Van Eyck & the rest was going from memory!
BC
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 02:26 PM
  #27  
Laura
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hey Book Chick......Actually, the name of the painting is "The Arnolfini Marriage" (it is in the National Gallery in London) According to Sister Wendy, the way she is standing and holding her dress is to symbolize fertility. The painting is only 23 1/2 x 32 1/4, but when you stand in front of it, it seems so much larger...I'm sure because of the details....especially when you look into the mirror and see Van Eyck himself....
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 02:53 PM
  #28  
john g
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Ummmmmm Laura, you'd better turn down that music and stop smoking that wacky weed because you don't know what you are talking about. The title of the painting is Giovanni Arnolfini And His Bride. Also, Van Eyck is NOT reflected in the mirror. Giovanni, Jeanne, and witnesses are reflected in the mirror. This is a WEDDING SCENE and witnesses are needed. Why would Van Eyck put himself in the painting???? Does a wedding photographer put themselves in someone's wedding photos?????????? The reason I know so much about this painting is because I studied it in college and wrote a 15-page paper on it. I DID NOT just turn on the TV and listen to what Sister Wendy had to say. If you are go to contradict someone, get your facts straight first.
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 03:08 PM
  #29  
Laura
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
johng....I'm sorry if I offended you. Actually, on page 64 in Sister Wendy's Story of Painting, she says, "The Arnolfini marriage" is a name that has been given to this untitled double portrait by Jan van Eyck." So, it may be called many things, I guess.

Also, on page 65, Sister Wendy says, "The mirror is painted with almost miraculous skill. Its carved frame is inset with ten miniature medallions depicting scenes from the life of Christ. Yet more remarkable is the mirror's reflection, which includes van Eyck's own tiny self-portrait, accompanied by another man who may have been the official witness to the ceremony."

In Great Paintings of the Wester World, by Alison Gallup, Gerhard Gruitrooy and Elizabeth M. Weisberg, on page 110, they say, "In a display of technical bravura, he has included, reflected in the convex mirror at the very back of the room, a self-portrait of himself at work on the picture, along with a rear view of the couple."

And when I saw the painting myself at the National Gallery, our guide pointed out the reflection of van Eyck in the mirror.
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 03:35 PM
  #30  
nancy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Well bravo for you Johng!
too bad you did not write a 15 pg report on communication skills!
It probably would have gotten you further in life.
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 03:55 PM
  #31  
Georgia
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Actually, Johng, both names are used as titles of this painting and everyone who has studied art (except you, perhaps) knows that van Eyck painted his reflection in the mirror along with a witness.... That's one of the many things that makes this painting so interesting. I love it when people are so arrogant and then end up making fools of themselves!
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 07:09 PM
  #32  
john g
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Did I hit a nerve? My god, chill out. I was just funnin' you.......
 
Sep 26th, 2001, 07:40 PM
  #33  
artistica
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I'm still painting by numbers....
 
Sep 27th, 2001, 08:26 AM
  #34  
wes fowler
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Few questions this time, mostly some comments. With regard to the van Eyck painting of the Arnolfini wedding, I'm surprised no one has commented on the symbolism in the painting. Flemish painters from Heironymus Bosch on were famous for including symbolic objects in their paintings. What for example, is the significance of the shoes? Are bride and groom barefoot? Odd, too, to see a dog in a formal wedding portrait; is there significance to his being there?

Finally, to the respondent regarding the questions about Viehscheid and Leonhardiritt. You're quite correct, however, had you actually experienced both festivals rather than depending upon internet research, you'd know that many of the cattle are adorned with floral headpieces as they're paraded down from high pasture land. In many of the villages near Bad Tolz, the Leonhardiritt also includes whip cracking demonstrations with antique coachmen's whips following the parade to the church and the celebratory Mass. Benediktbeuern's Leonhardifahrt rivals that of Bad Tolz. Check 'em out, live and in color rather than on a 17" inch screen, by visiting Bavaria in November.
 
Sep 27th, 2001, 08:50 AM
  #35  
Laura
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Again, according to Sister Wendy's Story of Painting book, on page 65, she says, "Almost every detail can be interpreted as a symbol. The companion dog is seen as a symbol of faithfulness adn love. The fruits on the window ledge probably stand for fertility and our fall from paradise. Even the discarded shoes are not thought to be incidental, but to signify the sanctity of marriage." And on page 64 in mid-sentence--"the unshod feet (since this is the ground of a holy union)"
 
Sep 27th, 2001, 10:37 AM
  #36  
diane
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I'm sure I've heard of other painters who painted themselves into their paintings, sometimes into crowd scenes. I believe I saw one in Spain--did El Greco put himself in the huge Count Orgaz painting which is seen in a church in Toledo? I'm sure some of my erudite fellow fodorites will know of some examples.

Think how Alfred Hitchcock appeared briefly in all his movies.
 
Sep 27th, 2001, 03:12 PM
  #37  
john g
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Yes, The Arnolfini Wedding portrait is full of symbolism. The greatest being, I think, that the ceremony takes place in the bedroom--with the marriage bed in full view. And I also agree that the oranges are a symbol of fertility and the dog a symbol of faithfulness. But, I also feel that all these things are a symbol of wealth above all else. This portrait was commissioned and I think that Giovanni Arnolfini wanted to show off his wealth--a brass chandelier, a mirror, rich cloth, windows, a carpet. The most important aspect of this painting, however, is the effect of the light streaming through the window, producing a stillness and solemnity to the work.
 
Sep 27th, 2001, 03:27 PM
  #38  
Maira
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Yes Dianne, you are right, RE: Goya's "El Entierro del Conde Orgaz". He painted himself on the center line, standing, he is the guy looking straight. He also painted his son, he is the kid on the lower left corner.

Another well-known: a self-portrait of Velazquez appears in "Las Meninas".
 
Sep 27th, 2001, 03:53 PM
  #39  
Capo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I've often found myself staring at George Seurat's "Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte" and asking "What's the point?"
 
Sep 27th, 2001, 04:04 PM
  #40  
Book Chick
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Capo,

ilism?

BC
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy -

FODOR'S VIDEO

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:03 AM.