Steves: Travel enriches our global perspective
Apr 28th, 2004, 08:11 AM
#42
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For the second time in a month the great debate about Rick Steves has come up again. And, once again, most of you have forgotten the purpose of this forum is to exchange travel information.
I have met Rick Steves and he is a nice guy. I llike his shows because I am getting to see Europe. He is just one source of travel information that I use to prepare for trips. I have found some of his recommendations to be good and others not so good. Mentioning his name in Rome in Feb. got me a 30% discount at a nice hotel. Maybe most of you like paying full price, but I happen to like getting discounts. I had another discount in Iceland in March.
If you don't like the man or his product - fine. I don't agree with his political views but he is entitled to them. Again, please remember the purpose of this board is not to criticize but to exchange travel information.
I have met Rick Steves and he is a nice guy. I llike his shows because I am getting to see Europe. He is just one source of travel information that I use to prepare for trips. I have found some of his recommendations to be good and others not so good. Mentioning his name in Rome in Feb. got me a 30% discount at a nice hotel. Maybe most of you like paying full price, but I happen to like getting discounts. I had another discount in Iceland in March.
If you don't like the man or his product - fine. I don't agree with his political views but he is entitled to them. Again, please remember the purpose of this board is not to criticize but to exchange travel information.
Apr 28th, 2004, 08:41 AM
#43
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In the short time I visited this forum I have read a few posters who think only their words count and as one poster observed, insult those who don't agree with them. The two fighting mean babes are an example of educated but not nice posters. If you don't like RS why join in the thread? As another put it, we are here to exchange information and not to berate one another's taste.
Apr 28th, 2004, 10:13 AM
#44
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Thanks, Bill...good comments. Yes, a "dangerous thread" indeed; nobody seems to set ire on fire like Steves. Britney Spears has a much bigger fan base than you? Have you tried exposing your navel? 
Anonymous, very well said...thanks.
Regarding Steves' comment that "Travel enriches our global perspective", bear in mind who his audience was for this column. It wasn't Fodorites, or other people who travel a lot and who already realize this. Rather, the column was in one of our local (Seattle) newspapers, directed at a broad audience.
Anonymous, very well said...thanks.
Regarding Steves' comment that "Travel enriches our global perspective", bear in mind who his audience was for this column. It wasn't Fodorites, or other people who travel a lot and who already realize this. Rather, the column was in one of our local (Seattle) newspapers, directed at a broad audience.
Apr 28th, 2004, 10:28 AM
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I think it's possible that the first comment underemphasizes how desperate many people are to get out of these picturesque, culturally interesting countries. They don't want to be Americans necessarily - probably not, actually. Nor do they want to be Western Europeans. But they do want to move to a country where they have the hope of getting a decent education for their children, their own home, a few luxuries, and the hope of advancement. There's a reason why so many illegal aliens pay enormous sums for scary, unsafe, and sometimes deadly transport to Western countries. It could be Chinese trying to get to Canada and paying a fortune to an extortionist "snakehead", or stowaway Albanians trying to get to Italy, or Mexicans trying to cross the Rio Grande.
gt; RS is the travel BigMac, filling, not nutritious, large bun.
Apr 28th, 2004, 10:50 AM
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I don't know much about Rick Steves. Never used his guide books and saw his tv program once or twice. After reading this column he strikes me as pompous and condescending. He's possibly a self-hating American who would delight at being told "you're different" (from other Americans). I find it odd that someone can be raised in such a way that they would be shocked to discover that Norwegian moms and dads love their children just as much as American moms and dad. Maybe it's the least sophisticated of people who know that "people are just people."
Although, probably an unpopular view, people in poorer countries are literally dying to come to the U.S. Life is hard in some of these countries. I've seen it and don't try to brush it off with some sort of romantic notion about the simplicity of life or the pride they have in their country.
Although, probably an unpopular view, people in poorer countries are literally dying to come to the U.S. Life is hard in some of these countries. I've seen it and don't try to brush it off with some sort of romantic notion about the simplicity of life or the pride they have in their country.
Apr 28th, 2004, 11:44 AM
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The "Our Place in the World" article must be an example of self-plagiarization, since he as had an essay on his website titled "Innocents Abroad" that incorporates the same sentences.
Frankly, anyone that has to travel to Norway to learn that non-American parents also love their children must be mentally defective.
Over the past few years, Rick Steves has developed a peculiar, almost passive, style of promoting one side of the Atlantic at the expense of the other. He has a fondness for praising some virtue of European society with almost prose-like wording, and then implying, but rarely directly stating, that the US is inferior in the same context.
For example, in his Innocents Abroad essay, he suggests that only Europeans are capable of loving their jobs. He has made the remarkable discovery that chefs, farmers and musicians throughout Europe are passionate about their livelihood. He does not discuss the attitudes of their American counterparts, but one is presumably expected to infer that they hate their jobs, perhaps even their entire existence.
His conviction that Americans are shamefully callous about third-world hardships, causes me to wonder if he is aware that the US welcomes more immigrants than almost any nation on earth.
Moreover, many of his "facts" are simply wrong. He asserts, with an approving air, that it is much more difficult to "get rich in Europe," yet according to a recent National Geographic special (The Geography of Wealth - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...711_money.html), Europe has more millionaires than the US.
He flatly states that Europeans have greater access to higher education, despite the fact that France and Germany produce fewer college graduates (per capita) than the US (e.g., http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/internati...icatorNumber=7).
He is convinced that Americans refuse to regard public education as a "birthright," conveniently ignoring that the segregation of secondary students into "college-bound" and "expected-to-fail" is a European phenomenon.
Would Rick Steves be so ashamed of his own country if he were more informed about it? Perhaps if Mr. Steves were to spend less time in Europe and more time in Seattle, he would not insist on dividing the world into Americans and everyone else.
Frankly, anyone that has to travel to Norway to learn that non-American parents also love their children must be mentally defective.
Over the past few years, Rick Steves has developed a peculiar, almost passive, style of promoting one side of the Atlantic at the expense of the other. He has a fondness for praising some virtue of European society with almost prose-like wording, and then implying, but rarely directly stating, that the US is inferior in the same context.
For example, in his Innocents Abroad essay, he suggests that only Europeans are capable of loving their jobs. He has made the remarkable discovery that chefs, farmers and musicians throughout Europe are passionate about their livelihood. He does not discuss the attitudes of their American counterparts, but one is presumably expected to infer that they hate their jobs, perhaps even their entire existence.
His conviction that Americans are shamefully callous about third-world hardships, causes me to wonder if he is aware that the US welcomes more immigrants than almost any nation on earth.
Moreover, many of his "facts" are simply wrong. He asserts, with an approving air, that it is much more difficult to "get rich in Europe," yet according to a recent National Geographic special (The Geography of Wealth - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...711_money.html), Europe has more millionaires than the US.
He flatly states that Europeans have greater access to higher education, despite the fact that France and Germany produce fewer college graduates (per capita) than the US (e.g., http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/internati...icatorNumber=7).
He is convinced that Americans refuse to regard public education as a "birthright," conveniently ignoring that the segregation of secondary students into "college-bound" and "expected-to-fail" is a European phenomenon.
Would Rick Steves be so ashamed of his own country if he were more informed about it? Perhaps if Mr. Steves were to spend less time in Europe and more time in Seattle, he would not insist on dividing the world into Americans and everyone else.
Apr 28th, 2004, 11:44 AM
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I don't know why every gets so upset about Rick Steves. Everyone who reads this board happily goes to moves that are written, directed and acted by looney lefters who make Rick Steves seem like Magaret Thatcher. So why get on Rick Steves case in particular? Of course he is a hypocrit who makes a fortune and then whines about poverty. But that's what liberals do. I also could suggest places in the US where Ricky would have trouble convincing people that they were the "haves." He ought to do a show from Cabrini Green.
I do wonder where Ricky, and many other people have been lately if they question the notion that the US is the top of the pyramid. Of course we are. The US is the world leader economically, scientifically, militarily, industrially, medically, and yes, even culturally.
I do wonder where Ricky, and many other people have been lately if they question the notion that the US is the top of the pyramid. Of course we are. The US is the world leader economically, scientifically, militarily, industrially, medically, and yes, even culturally.
Apr 28th, 2004, 11:58 AM
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I am always a little perplexed after reading all the comments made about Rick Steves. I don't quite understand why some people seen to hate him so much on this board! I've read his books and followed some of his advice, along with the advice of other tour guides. Sure, his idea of traveling isn't usually the same as mine, but I surely don't despise him for that. He's turned his hobby and passion into something extremely profitable. Good for him! Wish I could figure out how to do the same. But does that mean that he's not good at what he does? I just don't understand all the judgment and critisism for Rick Steves that so many people on this board seem to have. I've seen it in a few different posts. Maybe I haven't been around this board long enough to understand the "Rick Steves War"? If you don't want to take his advice or read his books, don't. Is there some other reason everyone seems to jump on the "hate Rick Steves" bandwagon around here? I'm not trying to start an argument or anything; just curious.
Apr 28th, 2004, 12:04 PM
#53
And I don't understand why some post on a thread that we are trying to share with others and some nasty comment starts the whole thread to go downhill. If you don't like the poster or the subject of the post, stay away. Travel talk is for sharing and not to present your taste as the dernier cri.
There's room for Steves, Wells and anyone who has their fans. It would be boring if we all had the same tastes.
There's room for Steves, Wells and anyone who has their fans. It would be boring if we all had the same tastes.
Apr 28th, 2004, 12:28 PM
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Speaking of Patricia Wells, I did go to that dinner last night that the Smithsonian had as part of her book tour. She seemed like a very nice person and interesting person. She was writing for the NY Times food section before she moved to Paris with her husband. She had a lot of trouble getting started in the food writing world, but, of course, is now a success (despite being disliked by some posters on fodors).
The talk was very enjoyable. I did not buy the book, by the way. I have cookbooks out the wazoo and, with both kids grown and gone (sniff!), I really do not do that much cooking anymore.
About the food prepared by The Madison Hotel, well, it was terrible. I am certain it was their preparation and not the recipes from Patricia Wells that were at fault. It appears they left out all the spices and herbs (with the sole exception of some very interesting madeleines that had rosemary in them), so that was a disappointment. However, I met some delightful people who run an herb farm in PA and are having a lavender festival on Father's Day weekend. I am thinking of going. As my grandma would have said, "It shouldn't be a total loss."
Information about the herb farm for you foodies can be found at www.willowpondherbs.com
I do agree that one does have to wonder about the hatred people express on message boards for people they have never met and/or know very little about. Just because I "met" Patricia Wells last night, for example, does not mean I really "know" her. Having said that, she and Rick Steves are successful and more power to them. Each has his own niche and contributes to North Americans awareness of Europe and European culture without needing advice from anyone on fodors. Just imagine that!
If you can do it better, perhaps you can find your own niche and go right ahead!
The talk was very enjoyable. I did not buy the book, by the way. I have cookbooks out the wazoo and, with both kids grown and gone (sniff!), I really do not do that much cooking anymore.
About the food prepared by The Madison Hotel, well, it was terrible. I am certain it was their preparation and not the recipes from Patricia Wells that were at fault. It appears they left out all the spices and herbs (with the sole exception of some very interesting madeleines that had rosemary in them), so that was a disappointment. However, I met some delightful people who run an herb farm in PA and are having a lavender festival on Father's Day weekend. I am thinking of going. As my grandma would have said, "It shouldn't be a total loss."
Information about the herb farm for you foodies can be found at www.willowpondherbs.com
I do agree that one does have to wonder about the hatred people express on message boards for people they have never met and/or know very little about. Just because I "met" Patricia Wells last night, for example, does not mean I really "know" her. Having said that, she and Rick Steves are successful and more power to them. Each has his own niche and contributes to North Americans awareness of Europe and European culture without needing advice from anyone on fodors. Just imagine that!
If you can do it better, perhaps you can find your own niche and go right ahead!
Apr 28th, 2004, 12:49 PM
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"I do agree that one does have to wonder about the hatred people express on message boards for people they have never met and/or know very little about."
Ms. Kahn, just a lurker here, but have said some very nasty things bordering on hatred about people here that you've never met and know little about. Perhaps you could explain why you are so hostile and meanspirited. I thank all the people here who give travel advice even if it is critical of a guidebook or something. It has helped me. I don't understand why some people here have to be so personally insulting.
Ms. Kahn, just a lurker here, but have said some very nasty things bordering on hatred about people here that you've never met and know little about. Perhaps you could explain why you are so hostile and meanspirited. I thank all the people here who give travel advice even if it is critical of a guidebook or something. It has helped me. I don't understand why some people here have to be so personally insulting.
Apr 28th, 2004, 12:55 PM
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JennyJumpUp, I am especially hostile to anyone who begins a post claiming to be a "lurker" with only posts on two threads including this one.
Obvious cheering section alias for someone who feels he/she needs one to justify nasty posts.
Do have a nice day "Jenny" dahling. It sounds like you need one.
Obvious cheering section alias for someone who feels he/she needs one to justify nasty posts.
Do have a nice day "Jenny" dahling. It sounds like you need one.
Apr 28th, 2004, 12:57 PM
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Most of the people on this forum don't "hate" Rick Steves, but some of us think he is an uninformed opportunistic hypocrite.
When he laments the fact that his cat has more "purchasing power" than a Chilean child, and yet has built a small empire by promoting European vacations, a frivolous luxury by any standard, one can only wonder whether he is intellectually shallow or intentionally disingenuous.
There are a few elitists in this forum that do not like Rick Steves because he restricts his focus to the most popular European sites and places. I have no problem with his choice of travel destinations. It is his distorted comparisons of the opposites shores of the Atlantic that I criticize him for.
Some of his detailed travel advice is useful, but that's not the topic of this thread.
When he laments the fact that his cat has more "purchasing power" than a Chilean child, and yet has built a small empire by promoting European vacations, a frivolous luxury by any standard, one can only wonder whether he is intellectually shallow or intentionally disingenuous.
There are a few elitists in this forum that do not like Rick Steves because he restricts his focus to the most popular European sites and places. I have no problem with his choice of travel destinations. It is his distorted comparisons of the opposites shores of the Atlantic that I criticize him for.
Some of his detailed travel advice is useful, but that's not the topic of this thread.
