Steak Frites
Apr 30th, 2008, 08:52 AM
#21
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travelgourmet wrote: "European beef is simply not up to American standards for flavor or tenderness."
First, it is silly to write of European beef as one product.
Second, it is silly to represent a personal preference as if it were an objective fact.
Third, there is a trade-off between flavour and tenderness unless you use chemicals.
Other than that, I agree with you.
First, it is silly to write of European beef as one product.
Second, it is silly to represent a personal preference as if it were an objective fact.
Third, there is a trade-off between flavour and tenderness unless you use chemicals.
Other than that, I agree with you.
Apr 30th, 2008, 09:18 AM
#22
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Try and look for beef from Aubrac or lamb from Limousine (both are regions in France). It's usually mentioned on the menu, though I think the lamb from Limousine is seasonal. The beef is aged naturally in France without the infra-lead light, so there is a different in texture and taste.
I enjoy the steak and hand made french fries at Brasserie Ils St Louis.
I enjoy the steak and hand made french fries at Brasserie Ils St Louis.
Apr 30th, 2008, 09:41 AM
#23
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YEah,, thats why people pay for more for Kobe beef right,, there is a huge difference in beef ,, and French beef( generally ) is not good. I stand by my assessment, and so does my family in France, in fact there is where I learned my prejudice!
Now for Chickens, the french have an exceptional brand(breed ?) Bresse. I will pay the extra for a Bresse chicken, the flavor( see it actaully has flavour, not like ours which is generally bland) . Our chickens are like our hard orangey red tomatoes,, blah.
I am sure there is good beef somewhere in France , but it is the exception not the rule, whereas at my grocers our beef is generally much better, and Alberta beef is delish.
Now for Chickens, the french have an exceptional brand(breed ?) Bresse. I will pay the extra for a Bresse chicken, the flavor( see it actaully has flavour, not like ours which is generally bland) . Our chickens are like our hard orangey red tomatoes,, blah.
I am sure there is good beef somewhere in France , but it is the exception not the rule, whereas at my grocers our beef is generally much better, and Alberta beef is delish.
Apr 30th, 2008, 10:48 AM
#24
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Thank you bozama for answering a kind of silly post better than I could. Different parts of the world specialize in different types of food, I didn't think it that outrageous to think US beef is (in general) a better product.
Padraig, as best I can tell, you seem to think nothing good comes from the US. This is repeated in post after post. I think I get the point. Of course, when you immediately try to imply that all American beef is filled with chemicals or that you can't have tenderness and flavor without them (see Beef, Kobe), you both look like a hypocrite for calling me out and you look uninformed. Not a flattering combination.
Padraig, as best I can tell, you seem to think nothing good comes from the US. This is repeated in post after post. I think I get the point. Of course, when you immediately try to imply that all American beef is filled with chemicals or that you can't have tenderness and flavor without them (see Beef, Kobe), you both look like a hypocrite for calling me out and you look uninformed. Not a flattering combination.
Apr 30th, 2008, 11:11 AM
#26
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Kobe comes from Japan.
This will tell you what you need to know about Kobe Beef:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_beef
The very traditional methods of raising the cows puts the lie to claims that beef cannot be both tender and flavorful, without the use of chemicals.
Note, however, that much of what you see marketed as Kobe outside the US is not real Kobe, but simply Wagyu cattle. I have had some darn fine Wagyu, so I'm not sure this is that big of a deal - sort of like how there are very good Bordeaux-style wines made outside of Bordeaux.
This will tell you what you need to know about Kobe Beef:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_beef
The very traditional methods of raising the cows puts the lie to claims that beef cannot be both tender and flavorful, without the use of chemicals.
Note, however, that much of what you see marketed as Kobe outside the US is not real Kobe, but simply Wagyu cattle. I have had some darn fine Wagyu, so I'm not sure this is that big of a deal - sort of like how there are very good Bordeaux-style wines made outside of Bordeaux.
Apr 30th, 2008, 11:14 AM
#28
Kobe beef is from Japan. They massage the animals before slaughtering them, very nice.
I disagree with calling beef from various countries 'good' or 'bad' -- different countries have different preferences. What throws most North Americans off about 'European' beef is that it is not bred for tenderness like North American beef is. As for the actual flavor of the meat, that is a subject regarding which most people in the world prefer what they are used to.
I disagree with calling beef from various countries 'good' or 'bad' -- different countries have different preferences. What throws most North Americans off about 'European' beef is that it is not bred for tenderness like North American beef is. As for the actual flavor of the meat, that is a subject regarding which most people in the world prefer what they are used to.
Apr 30th, 2008, 11:46 AM
#29
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travelgourmet wrote: "Padraig, as best I can tell, you seem to think nothing good comes from the US. This is repeated in post after post."
Untrue. I don't operate on such a petty level. You made an allegation about me; now I demand that you withdraw it. Unfounded allegations of prejudice are highly insulting.
travelgourmet also wrote: "Of course, when you immediately try to imply that all American beef is filled with chemicals or that you can't have tenderness and flavor without them (see Beef, Kobe), you both look like a hypocrite for calling me out and you look uninformed."
I did not try to imply anything about American beef. I said that "there is a trade-off between flavour and tenderness unless you use chemicals." That is true wherever the beef is produced. There is more flavour in tissues that have been active (developed muscle), and inactive tissue is more tender. That is a trade-off. Of course there are other factors (age of animal, breed, diet, general health, method of slaughter, butchering, ageing) and the type of cooking also has an effect, but the trade-off between flavour and tenderness is basic.
Untrue. I don't operate on such a petty level. You made an allegation about me; now I demand that you withdraw it. Unfounded allegations of prejudice are highly insulting.
travelgourmet also wrote: "Of course, when you immediately try to imply that all American beef is filled with chemicals or that you can't have tenderness and flavor without them (see Beef, Kobe), you both look like a hypocrite for calling me out and you look uninformed."
I did not try to imply anything about American beef. I said that "there is a trade-off between flavour and tenderness unless you use chemicals." That is true wherever the beef is produced. There is more flavour in tissues that have been active (developed muscle), and inactive tissue is more tender. That is a trade-off. Of course there are other factors (age of animal, breed, diet, general health, method of slaughter, butchering, ageing) and the type of cooking also has an effect, but the trade-off between flavour and tenderness is basic.
Apr 30th, 2008, 11:58 AM
#31
And much to my despair, T-bone steak has disappeared from French restaurants due to mad cow disease restrictions about meat on the spinal bone.
Even that questionable chain Buffalo Grill (largest sit-down restaurant chain in France, now owned by American interests) used to do an excellent T-bone.
Even that questionable chain Buffalo Grill (largest sit-down restaurant chain in France, now owned by American interests) used to do an excellent T-bone.
Apr 30th, 2008, 11:59 AM
#32
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Well, if the OP dares to eat steak frites in Paris after this thread, I stand by my recommendation of Le Relais de l'Entrecote. LOVE their salad, LOVE their steak, LOVE their sauce, LOVE their frites and LOVE their portions! Call me a classless plebian for enjoying this "mediocre" dish, and make mine rare!
Apr 30th, 2008, 12:01 PM
#33
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J_R_Hartley wrote: "American beef is banned for sale in Europe because of the use of known carcinogens in its production."
All I know about that is that American beef is banned because of the use of growth hormones, and a worry about their effects on those who consume the product. But I thought it was a concern about lack of proof that it is safe rather than a positive belief that it is unsafe.
All I know about that is that American beef is banned because of the use of growth hormones, and a worry about their effects on those who consume the product. But I thought it was a concern about lack of proof that it is safe rather than a positive belief that it is unsafe.
Apr 30th, 2008, 12:30 PM
#36
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i'm not sure why the OP got so many lectures. are you not supposed to enjoy steak frites? or do we just need to make sure the OP realises that it's not haute cuisine?
if i asked for recs on the perfect hamburger would i get everyone falling over themselves to tell me that this is not haute cuisine?
obviously steak frites is a simple dish and the steak is not high quality (does anyone think it is?) but a bleeding steak dipped in strong moutard and frites would be perfect right about now.
if i asked for recs on the perfect hamburger would i get everyone falling over themselves to tell me that this is not haute cuisine?
obviously steak frites is a simple dish and the steak is not high quality (does anyone think it is?) but a bleeding steak dipped in strong moutard and frites would be perfect right about now.
Apr 30th, 2008, 12:36 PM
#37
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<i>American beef is banned for sale in Europe because of the use of known carcinogens in its production.</i>
Not even remotely true.
The ban is actually related to importing beef treated with hormones. There is no general ban against US beef, and American beef is imported to the EU today (around $40m per year). There are, however, restrictions related to certifying that the beef is hormone free. The specific ban against hormone-treated beef applies equally to any supplier using hormones.
However, there is scant evidence supporting claims that the use of such hormones is dangerous to human health. Indeed, when the WTO ruled against the EU ban, they cast doubt on whether the EU actually had much scientific evidence at all to support the ban, stating:
<i>The abscence of such risk assessment, when considered in conjunction with the conclusion actually reached by most, if not all, of the scientific studies relating to the other aspects of risk noted earlier, leads us to the conclusion that no risk assessment that reasonably supports or warrants the import prohibition embodied in the EC Directives was furnished to the Panel.</i>
Not even remotely true.
The ban is actually related to importing beef treated with hormones. There is no general ban against US beef, and American beef is imported to the EU today (around $40m per year). There are, however, restrictions related to certifying that the beef is hormone free. The specific ban against hormone-treated beef applies equally to any supplier using hormones.
However, there is scant evidence supporting claims that the use of such hormones is dangerous to human health. Indeed, when the WTO ruled against the EU ban, they cast doubt on whether the EU actually had much scientific evidence at all to support the ban, stating:
<i>The abscence of such risk assessment, when considered in conjunction with the conclusion actually reached by most, if not all, of the scientific studies relating to the other aspects of risk noted earlier, leads us to the conclusion that no risk assessment that reasonably supports or warrants the import prohibition embodied in the EC Directives was furnished to the Panel.</i>
Apr 30th, 2008, 12:55 PM
#38
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Padraig wrote:
"There is more flavour in tissues that have been active (developed muscle), and inactive tissue is more tender."
The flavor of beef comes not from the activeness of tissue, but its' aging and fat content or marbling. The least flavorful cuts of beef are always those that are leanest, absent a specific diet regimen (see veal). Additionally, while generalizations of toughness and the causes you make are accurate, they do not take into account the method of cooking. With a simple pressure cooker, you can make nearly any tough cut of meat tender.
"There is more flavour in tissues that have been active (developed muscle), and inactive tissue is more tender."
The flavor of beef comes not from the activeness of tissue, but its' aging and fat content or marbling. The least flavorful cuts of beef are always those that are leanest, absent a specific diet regimen (see veal). Additionally, while generalizations of toughness and the causes you make are accurate, they do not take into account the method of cooking. With a simple pressure cooker, you can make nearly any tough cut of meat tender.
Apr 30th, 2008, 01:09 PM
#39
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Iregeo -
Well said. Wish I had know about this spot last week.....
I'm not quite sure why some posters here feel the need to lecture. The OP did not ask whether or not one should eat steak frites... The question was where to get them......
Well said. Wish I had know about this spot last week.....
I'm not quite sure why some posters here feel the need to lecture. The OP did not ask whether or not one should eat steak frites... The question was where to get them......
