Hi!

we are traveling for the first time to spain and portugal in october 2003. We are renting a car in Madrid and spending 3 days "waking up" and seeing the sites with a side trip to escorial. then driving south to san jose on the coast and on up to granada and seville and on to portugal to tavira and salema and on to lisbon for 3 days and then back to madrid.

I am concerned with driving in lisbon..suggestions as to where to stay,where to park car possibly outside of Lisbon and use of buses and trains for three days in the city???

Any suggestions are welcome...have enjoyed this site and learned alot from all of you!

Outside the center of Lisbon but very well connected is the Expo'98 site at Oriente. There's MetroLisboa, Tranvia, what's becoming Lisbon's principal rail station and a bus terminal. There are a couple of newer hotels that were built for Expo'98.

Spain: I don't know where San Jose is but while in Madrid you should consider daytrips to Segovia and Toledo. You might want to see Madrid for a couple of days before picking up a rental car.

Another possibility would be to stay in Sintra and take the train into Lisbon.

I may be misunderstanding your plan, but I wouldn't rent the car until leaving Madrid. Bus and tour service to Escorial, Toledo, and Segovia is available. You really don't want a car while in Madrid.

Thanks for your replies...will research both expo location outside Lisbon and the Sintra suggestion as that was on our list as a day trip from Lisbon..so if it is an easy drive into Sintra we may do that to avoid Lisbon traffic.

You are right..we are planning on picking up the car at the Madrid airport after our stay in the city.

bobert,
Like xxx. I would opt for Sintra for your 3 day Lisbon area stay with car. I think you'll find Sintra enchanting and restful after your long strech of driving in Andalucía and Portugal.
Plus trains run into Lisbon every 15 min.

During your Madrid stay without a car, it's very easy to reach El Escorial by public transportation. There's no need to take an organized coach tour unless that's what you prefer. Just don't venture to El Escorial on MON. when the monastery is closed. Here are the two public transportation options:

THE "Autocares Herranz" busses #661 and #664 depart starting at 7 a.m. from dock #3 at the Intercambiador de Autobuses at the Moncloa metro stop (grey circular line #6). Takes about an hr., and bus lets you off in the upper town from where you can easily walk over to the Monastery . You'll have an assigned seat.
I take the 9 a.m. to arrive before the hordes of tour busses.
OR...

The Cercanías train C8A (not C8), double decker with rather hard seats, from CHAMARTIN rail station (30 departures daily), takes 55 min.
See www.renfe.es , click on CercanIas, then Madrid and choose Chamartín, El Escorial to see the schedule.
I take the 8:47, arriving El Escorial at 9:43, to get there right before Monastery opens at 10 and before the tour groups descend. Upon exiting the train station which is located in the lower town (town has two parts-train station down below, and Monastery is in upper village), immediately get on the awaiting "Herranz" city bus which will take you up the long, 2 km. hill to the upper town, get off at the square which is at the end of Floridablanca street, and you'll see the Monastery looming ahead of you on the left.
To return to Madrid-
To get back down to the train station, take the "Herranz" city bus back waiting at the end of Floridablanca. Bus departs about 15 min ahead of the train departure. Just take your printout of the train schedule from www.renfe.es or if you forget, just ask for one at the ticket window.

Out of curiosity, where is San José on the coast?

Hope this helps.

how long is the train ride (or car ride) from sintra to lisbon?

I think it takes about 45 min. by train.

You can see the Lisbon (Rossio)-Sintra schedule at
http://www.cp.pt/linhas/sintra/horarios/horario1.html

Hi,

Does anyone have a favorite place to stay in Sintra..I had hoped that Sintra was closer to Lisbon..a 45 minute train ride seems a bit long. However, we probably won't go into lisbon every day..with a 3 day stay will probably do a day in sintra, a day in Lisbon and my husband wants to go to Fatima...another day trip?? Or should we drive and stop there on our way back to Madrid?? I had located a monastery in Caceres and thought that could be a good halfway stop on our return to Madrid.

Is it difficult to find the Madrid airport or is it clearly marked as we approach Madrid??

Maribel, San Jose is a small community near Almeria on the coast...we have some friends who will be there for a week or so and we plan to visit them after we leave Madrid and start on our journey.

Also another question...driving from Seville into Portugal we are taking Rick Steves suggestion to travel to Tavira and Salema..any recommendations as to where to stay in possibly Salema..we hope to drive from Salema to Lisbon in a day...I have to get onto the Michelin site to gauge distances and see if that is a good plan but not sure there is a place to stay along that route to break up the trip.

Thanks everyone for your help!!

Hi bobert,

We stayed in Sintra at a place in Karen Brown's book. It was within walking distance of the "downtown" area and was absolutely delightful. Check her website www.karenbrown.com. All I remember is that the building/house had stripes on the exterior!! The host did not recommend we drive into Lisbon to catch our plane and found a hotel for us close to the airport that was very nice and reasonable. We drove to the airport with no problem. We really enjoyed Portugal, spent a month there. Went from the north border to the south border. Lisbon was impossible to drive in, even our taxi driver (hired to take us to a place for dinner downtown) got lost getting us back to our hotel, which was high on a hill overlooking Lisbon and the Castle. Incidentally, we also did 3 weeks in Spain, all north. Enjoyed Madrid...we took the metro into the city from the airport, it was a piece of cake! Stayed at a Best Western downtown, very nice and reasonable. We drove to Toledo, it's a beautiful city. We also loved Segovia. Good luck, Sasi

We stayed at Vila Gale tavira in July for 2 nights, good location, great breakfast. Tavira was one of the highlights of our trip to Spain and Portugal.A lovely setting and so quaint.

bobert,
I know Almería city because my sister-in-law lives there. I though the San Josè you were speaking of would be in the Almería province because there's no San José on the Costa del Sol. I see now where it is, east of Almería, about 20 min. from Retamar where my sister-in-law has her wkd place.
That's a hefty, long and tedious 6 1/2-7 hr. drive from Madrid! I know because my sister-in-law does it often from Almería, the capital, and it's exhausting! Were you planning to overnight along the way?
From San José in the Almería province it will be about a 2 1/2-3 hr. drive to Granada.

For an overnight from Lisbon to Madrid, I'd stop in Cáceres. Don't know what monastery you're speaking of, but Càceres itself has a beautiful medieval quarter and a lovely Parador. See it at www.parador.es

The Madrid airport is clearly marked on the M40 with an airplane logo, Just follow the airplane logo and you can't miss it.

I can't believe I found this site..you are all so helpful! Maribel do you have a suggestion for a place to stay somewhere between Madrid and San Jose since you are familiar with that drive??

I am Portuguese and I wouldn't make nor Sintra or the Expo my place to stay . Sintra is too far from Lisbon to go there often and the Expo place isn't a very nice place to stay. I would recommmend you to stay in Cascais, 25 minutes by train from Lisbon. I live in between Lisbon and Cascais, 10km from each place. Cascais is a very nice village to stay, with many restaurants and nice shops, close to the beach. You're very near Guincho and Sintra where you can go by car in 10/15 minutes.It will also be easier to park your car in Cascais. I would recommend you to stay in Hotel Albatroz in Cascais, a fabulous small charm hotel right in front of the sea and close to the train station ,in the center of the village..

bobert,
I think Tere makes a good point about Cascais, since you'll only have 3 days. Cascais is a much quicker train ride into Lisbon-we've taken that train-and from Cascais, as she says, you can easily get to Sintra. It will also be relaxing because it's on the beach, and there are plenty of shops and bars/restaurants to keep you happy. Probably a better spot for touring both.
I know the elegant Hotel Albatroz wbich would be within easy walking distance of the station, but be aware that it can be quite expensive. It was above our price range, doubless for 220 euros and up, but maybe it will fit in yours. You might also consider the "Casa da Pergola" as well. It's a small private guest house and a Karen Brown favorite. See it at
www.karenbrown.com
www.manorhouses.com
www.ciberguia.pt/COMUM_V4/infopage.asp?ie=1996

About an overnight between Madrid and San José:
since you're going to visit Granada after your stay in the Almería province, I'd opt for the Parador-Castillo de Santa Catalina high atop the hills, 5 km. above Jaén. It has gorgeous views of endless miles of olive groves, a pool and garden for relaxation, a grand hall with arched ceilings, huge brazier, tapestries, etc. and a baronial dining room with high, peaked arches-all very castle like. You'll be served a complimentary glass of sherry and delicious olives from the region as an apertif. They have a well priced set menu for only 23 euros and the famously huge buffet breakfasts, that can tied you over well past lunch, cost 8,93. At the front desk there's also a handy ATM machine and a Parador shop selling logo items (we were just there in late April). Although the stone Parador itself is a new structure, it was built next to the Moorish castle to appear to be an extension of it. The castle was the stronghold of the Nasrid caliphs until 1246 when it fell to the hands of the Christians. We always stop there on our way down from Madrid to Granada to either have a coffee break or lunch in the splendid dining room.

The downtown area of Jaèn (one of the poorest cities in Andalucía) is a typical and frustrating Moorish maze, very hard to get around and to park to see the cathedral, but to reach the Parador you can take a ring road, following signs for the Carretera de Circunvalación, that circumvents this labyrinth and takes you straight up to the Parador. And best of all Jaén is on the direct route to San José, says www.viamichelin.com
This would be very memorable stay for you, and doubles in Oct. only run 110 euros.

Hi to all,

Have an "ambitious" itinerary on paper now and am ready to firm up some lodging.
1) Madrid (2 nites) rent car at end of stay
2) Jaen (1 nite)
3) San Jose (2 nites with friends)
4) Marchena ..outside Seville (2 nites).. in a monastery I hope..but herein lies a weak spot as i want to stop in Granada and see the Alhambra along the way!
5)Tavira (2 nites) Have scratched Salema..or maybe a day trip???
6) Cascais (2 nites).our Lisbon base and want to see Fatima..would love to see Sintra too..yikes!
7) Caceres (1 nite)
8) Madrid (1 nite)

We are excited..what do you think??????
I probably need to consolidate a bit more but it is difficut..what do you think??

bobert,
Wow! That's a whirlwind tour! Too whirlwind for me, but to each his own!
I don't like many one-nighters, and I think you'll need more rest and down time in Madrid at the end.

Also with only 2 nights in Cascais, and after the journey from Tavira to Cascais, I don't see how you can include Lisbon, Sintra and Fátima! Can you add at least another night to Cascais?

The 4 1/2-5 hr. drive (or more if they're working on the Autopista del Sol from Almería to Granada) drive from San José to Marchena with a sightseeing stop in Granada seems, to me at least, not doable.
I say this because it takes at least 5 hrs. for most to tour Granada's magnificent Alhambra and Generalife, which would leave you no time for the cathedral and Royal Chapel in downtown Granada, where the tombs of Ferdinand and Isabella lie.
And downtown Granada is a true maze to navigate, so the best way to reach the cathedral area from the Alhambra is not by car, but to take the minibus that leaves from below the main entrance and drops you at the Plaza Nueva where you can take the short walk, then minibus back to the Alhambra hill. And after your Granada visit, you'd need to press on another 2 1/2 hrs. to Marchena.
If I were taking this trip, I would certainly add an overnight in Granada.

I'm assuming you have excluded Seville for
a particular reason. Maybe you plan to day trip to Seville from Marchena.
Is the Marchena monastery the Monasterio de la Purísima Concepción, by the way? Just curious...
Marchena's church museum is a great repository of paintings by one of my favorite Spanish Baroque artists, Zurbarán.
I think you'd want to include in your tour of this area the beautiful Baroque mansion filled Osuna which is on the way, but you may not have time if you want to see some of the beauty of Seville.

I sense, maybe incorrectly, that you're seeking low cost monastery/convent lodgings rather than Paradors and Manor Houses.
I failed to mention the Casa de Ejercicios Nuestra Señora de la Montaña in Cáceres, but you probably have the "Lodging in Spain's Monasteries" book and know it already.

If you want more budget lodgings in Jaén, cooter, another Fodorite who is a great Spain lover, posted on his stay at the 3 star Hotel Condestable Aranzo in modern downtown Jaén. He found a discount rate under 60 euros at a Halcon Viajes travel agency (they're everywhere in Spain).

Just my thoughts....

Hi Maribel,

I think you are right..and am tweaking the itinerary a bit..we are planning on seeing Seville from our base in Marchena...monastery listed in "lodging in spains monasteries" book..stayed in monasteries in Italy two years ago and saved $, had good rooms and especially in Assisi..outstanding service. The monastery in Caceres is the one you mentioned..need to get some reservations when i am firm about plans. We are being conservative about lodging as we will be heading back to Europe in January. However, we will spend a bit more for lodging in Cascais and are leaning toward the parador you mentioned in Jaen. Also i don't think the Granada stop is possible so we have to figure that one out. Is Tavira a must..we could spend a nite in Granada and then drive straight to cascias from Marchena and spend more time at that local? We have only 14 nites.

hi bobert,
I've also stayed in monastery lodgings in Navarra and in Extremadura (Guadalupe) and have a number of places in that book that I'd like to try; they're a huge money saver. We mix Paradors with casas rurales (rural country homes), B&Bs, 3-4 star hotels paid for with discount coupons, great discount internet rates and other schemes to keep lodging costs reasonable since we travel so often.

I can't tell you whether Tavira is worth it because I haven't spent time there. Don't know the Algarve well at all. But I certainly trust DOCK's recommendation.
But viamichelin.com says it will take you at least 5 hr. 40 min. to drive from Marchena to Cascais. But I've also read a post here about making the drive from Cascais to Sevilla with lunch break in about 5.
I've done the Seville-Lisbon drive BUT with an overnight in the Evora, Alentejo area going down and Beja coming back. It's a long haul.