Hello all! Looking to plan a 3 week trip to Spain and France by the end of May (departing from LAX) with my family. I have an idea of places I want to see and would like your input on how to put my itinerary together. Thanks in advance. Feel free to inform me on what you think should be left out, included, must-sees, best way to travel within the countries/cities, or even what cities you'd add in or replace, etc..

Spain
Barcelona
Madrid
Sevilla (?)
Granada (?)

France
Paris
Bordeaux(?)
Nice
Monte Carlo

*? cities I don't ming leaving out
I realize we probably won't be able to see it al in 3 weeks which is why I'm asking for help

Hi, yelleatomique, and welcome to Fodor's!

As a rough initial planning estimate, think no more than 2 cities per week, less if they are particularly "rich" destinations. Of course, you and your family might end up shifting more or less time to specific places, but only after you think through your priorities and plans.

Unfortunately, none of us can tell you how to structure your trip, particularly with no ideas about what your interests or preferences are, whether your family consists of a couple with infant or an extended family of 15.....

The one thing I can say with confidence is that all of these locations are wonderful in May.

Only visit 1 country.

If I was taking a small group of "newbies" to Europe, I would::

- Fly from LAX to Nice & spend 5-6 nights in Nice. Rent a car on day 3-4 & explore the Nice Hinterland by car.

- Drive 2 1/2 hrs to the Luberon in Provence & spend 4-5 nights there.

- Drive to Carcassonne & spend 2 1/2 hrs visiting the largest medieval fortress in Europe, and then continue on to either St Cirq Lapopie or Rocamadour and spend 3 nights exploring this wonderful region.

- Take the short drive to Sarlat la Caneda and spend 5-6 nights in the Dordogne, with perhaps the largest diversity of sites of anyplace we have visited.

Drive to Collonges la Rouge, visit, then the short drive to Brive la Gaillarde. Return the car take one of the may trains to Paris & spend your remaining time there.

Attached are some itineraries I wrote for this trip.

Stu Dudley

IMO, StuDudley provides an excellent example of the fact that personal interests truly matter! If my quick counts are correct, I didn't visit the Dordogne until my 13th international trip (my 9th to Europe) and didn't visit Nice or Provence until my 21st international trip (my 14th to Europe). In contrast, of the places the OP mentioned, I visited

• Paris on my 2nd international trip, and again on the 13th (my 2nd trip to Europe, and again on the 11th);
• Madrid, Sevilla, and Granada on my 7th international trip (my 6th to Europe); and
• Barcelona on my 17th international trip (my 12th to Europe).
• I haven't visited Bordeaux yet and have absolutely no interest in going to Monte Carlo.

And FWIW, I've enjoyed all my trips, but the one to Nice and Provence plus was, for me, a rare "A" or even "A-" against the backdrop of many, many "A+" trips.

Vive la difference!

I would definitely check the idea of leaving Sevilla and southern Spain aside, focusing more on the northern parts of Spain. What about a train from Paris to Barcelona?

End of May, family. Any interests

Spain
Barcelona
Madrid
Sevilla (?)
Granada (?)

France
Paris
Bordeaux(?)
Nice
Monte Carlo

Wow, a lot of places included and loads excluded. I would choose a region (a single country is irrelevant and an artificial construct). For example Seville, Granada and Madrid make a nice trip in May (plus Cordoba, Malaga, Cadiz) but they are just central and southern Spain.

Monte Carlo is such a small dull space compared to the other places it suggests a special interest. The GrandPrix?

>> (a single country is irrelevant and an artificial construct). For example Seville, Granada and Madrid make a nice trip in May (plus Cordoba, Malaga, Cadiz) <<

Your selection of only Spanish destinations kinda conflicts with your prior statement.

I find it difficult to get from every French city on the OP's list to any of the Spanish places. For me, "difficult" is any trip lasting longer than about 5-6 hours or involves an airplane. We did the Barcelona, Granada, Cordoba, Sevilla, Cadiz, & Madrid itinerary a few years ago - all by train. And we've done the Paris/Cote d'Azur/Provence itinerary by train & car countless times. Paris/Bordeaux/Dorodgne countless times also. But I would not do an itinerary that included Paris, Nice, Bordeaux, Sevilla, Madrid, & Barcelona - too much transit time.

Stu Dudley

After some thinking I’ve put some Itineraries together, and I’d like to you hear your thoughts.

Paris (6 nights)
San Sebastian (3 nights)
Madrid (4 nights) - daytrip to Toledo
Granada (3 nights)
Barcelona (5 nights)

Madrid (4 nights)
Seville (3 nights)
Barcelona (5 nights)
Avignon (3 nights)
Nice (3 nights)
Paris (6 nights)

Paris (4 nights)
Nice (3 nights)
Arles (3 nights)
San Sebastian (3 nights)
Madrid (3 nights)
Barcelona (5 nights)

Barcelona (5 nights)
Madrid (4 nights)
Seville (3 nights)
Paris (6 nights)
Nice (3 nights)

Paris (6 nights)
Nice (3 nights)
Barcelona (5 nights)
Madrid (4 nights)
Granada (3 nights)

Sorry for the lengthy post, I guess I just really like to hear others personal takes and it's been awhile since I've been to Europe so I'd like to make the most of my trip.

Your list includes only cities. Do you want to visit any beautiful countryside??

IMO, before you put any list like this together, use the German train travel site https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de//bin/query.exe/en and determine the train schedule needed to connect these destinations. I never use air travel within Europe on my itineraries. On the German site, use March dates - May might not be "loaded" yet.

Stu Dudley

What suggestions do you have on visiting the countryside? Thank you I will bookmark this.

Dordogne and Provence. I somehow didn't get my Provence & Cotte d'Azur itinerary attached in the above post by me. Here it is. I've sent it to over 3,000 people on Fodors.

Stu Dudley

You don't say whether you will be doing a driving trip or trains-but if by train then I would stick to cities that are relatively easy to get between. Also since you will be going in/out of LAX for sure look at opportunities to use open jaw tickets, in Paris out Nice for instance. And you might also look at carriers like Norwegian where you can get creative. For instance we are taking Norwegian next March from LAX to Gatwick and then fly to Bordeaux. From there you can rent a car and explore down to San Sebastian and into the Dordogne and then take a train to Paris, stay there a couple of nights and then take a train to Avignon and get a car and explore down to Nice and then fly home from Nice (if you decide to use Norwegian you can get to Gatwick from Nice and then non-stop back to LAX). I will offer you the caveat that we always cross our fingers using Norwegian because we worry about their economic future. But you could accomplish the same type of itinerary using Air France for instance doing non-stop into Paris and back out Nice. In that case you start in Paris and then take the train to Bordeaux. I personally think that with 3 weeks it will be stretch to get to both Nice and as far east and south as Seville, but if you are willing to fly part of the time their are some good budget carriers that serve all of the cities you mention. Flying is a good option if you want to city-centric visits and don't want to bother with a car

You're right, I should have mentioned I plan on doing most of the traveling through train.

Still unwilling to say anything about your interests or preferences or family configuration? Unfortunately, that seriously limits our ability to saying anything helpful.

None of your itineraries seems to take into account the time to travel from place to place. Depending on your routing, you could "lose" a half day or more to each transition.

FWIW, here's what I wanted for a first and very busy visit to the locations you listed:

Arles -- 1.5 days, not counting any day trips
Avignon -- 1.5 days, not counting any day trips
Barcelona -- 5 days, not counting any day trips
Granada -- 2.5 days, not counting any day trips
Madrid -- 4 days, not counting any day trips
Nice -- 3 days, not counting any day trips
Paris -- 6 days, not counting any day trips
San Sebastian -- 1 day, not counting any day trips
Toledo -- 2 days, not counting any day trips

My apologies. It will be the 3 of us traveling myself (21) and my parents (50+). In terms of interests we enjoy museums, art, beaches, sports (having in mind to visit Camp Nou) in Barcelona, visiting historical monuments etc...

In that case, IMO, your plans are all too ambitious. Take a look at the times I suggest and do your research to see whether they would allow you to see the things that interest you and your parents or not -- take them as very rough estimates from which you can work as you refine a plan. if you don't already have them, get a couple of really good guidebooks. To decide on a route, lay options out on a map, along with times, which you can estimate using rome2rio.com. To decide on an itinerary, lay times out on a calendar or grid marked with times. Whenever you plan on changing locations, include the time for transportation and also at least a couple of hours to either side for checking in /out, packing / unpacking, getting to / from your lodging, and getting lost / oriented. Note that in Spain, many things are closed all day on Mondays and often for a break of several hours midday. Make sure you check opening hours on the web and reserve in advance anything that requires / recommends it.

Good luck!

Paris (6 nights)
Nice (3 nights)
Barcelona (5 nights)
Madrid (4 nights)
Granada (3 nights)

I like this, but I would add a night to Madrid from Granada .
full disclosure: Spain is my favourite country , I don’t have much interest in countryside.

Thank you for this, I'll look into it immediately.

Unless you really want to spend a lot of time at the Alhambra - Granada might be a major disappointment. Make sure you really love the "hustle & bustle" of cities before you embark on danon's itinerary. We've spent 2 months in Europe (mainly France) every year since 1999, and before that about 3 weeks a year beginning in 1977. After many "mistakes", we discovered that city, city, city is exhausting. Quiet countryside was necessary for us to relax, get focused, and regain our energy. I was raised in LA. No cities in Europe (on your itinerary) are anything like LA (that's a plus).

Less is more.

Stu Dudley