oceania

I need some help figuring out what places to see and do in southern Spain. I'll be arriving and departing from Madrid (unless someone knows of a cheaper flight from Toronto). I also plan to go to Portugal and Morocco during this trip which is about 4 weeks in total.

I don't know what the best order is (for time and efficiency purposes) but this is what I've come up with so far:

Madrid (includes day trip to Toledo) - 4 days
Madrid - Cordoba - 2 days
Cordoba - Granada - 2 days
Granada - Almeria or Malaga - 1 day
Almeria/Malaga - Melilla > Morocco - 2 weeks
Tangier - Algeciras/Gibraltar - only passing through on my way to Sevilla *need help here*
Sevilla - 3 days
Sevilla - Lisbon- 3-4 days
Lisbon - Madrid

I believe on average it's 2-3 hour train ride from place to place (except Lisbon to Madrid of course) so I plan to take the earliest train I can. Is there any place I should skip or add? I don't want to go north of Madrid. Also, should I be getting a rail pass? If yes, which one to get? I think it's probably better and cheaper to pay each individual ticket especially for the short distance rides and because of the travel restriction - the most expensive trip is Libson to Madrid for 114 euros - Spain/Portugal pass costs 289 euros and I have only 3days of travel. I also noticed the RENFE doesn't give prices for all trips, only some of them - I guess the most popular ones.

I will be travelling around October/November, do I need to book the trains in advance? My preference is not to pre-book so I have more freedom to switch my itinerary as need be.

Any ideas on how much to budget for lodging, food and local transportation? I prefer to walk as much as possible, stay at hostels and eat from markets and street vendors...so pretty low budget. I'm travelling solo btw.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

indiancouple

Do not take the train from Lisbon to Madrid, as it is too expensive and too inconvenient. Fly by Vueling; you should get the flight for 30-40 euros max. Just go to www.vueling.com and book. You may want to reconsider buying the Spain-Portugal rail pass.

oceania

Excellent tip about the flight, it is much cheaper! But why would you say to reconsider the buying the rail pass if you suggested that I fly?

Clifton

Don't know about from Toronto, but you might want to look into flying into one end and out of another. Referred to as open jaw or multi-destination. For instance, we only had 3 weeks + a bit but was also not trying to cover as much ground.

Our ticket (combination of American and British Airways) flew into Casablanca. From there we were overland until we flew out of Granada home. Actually cost less than a round trip to Granada for the same dates and airlines. Our focus was Morocco though, and Spain just a dessert. Might be worth checking into the flights like that though, rather than all the back and forth. "Morocco - 2 weeks" would likely run most people all the way south to Marrakech or beyond, then back north again. Bit of a time waster if you can avoid it. Fantastic country though, well worth the time you've allotted, if not more.

One other way is to look at www.whichbudget.com on a budget airline that might get you into Morocco from Europe. Probably not from Spain though but maybe from another Euro entry city served from Toronto.

Clifton

ps - I understand you're going to have one terrible time starting into Morocco from Melilla, which is very far removed from most sites and transport in Morocco. We exited via Cueta (was in Chefchaouen just before), but even there, transport going the other way was pretty much non-existant. The ferry from Ceuta to Algeciras is less than an hour, compared to Tangier. Either way though, plan that Spain is either one or two hours ahead of Morocco time, depending on whether daylight savings is in effect in Europe when you travel. Morocco doesn't do DST.

indiancouple

The reason I suggest not buying the pass is that to pay 289 euros for a 3-day rail pass is exorbidant. You can undertake any number of rail trips in Portugal and Spain over 3 days by purchasing point to point fares, and end up paying less than half that amount. And I presume you will not spend your entire time inside rail coaches, for there's plenty to see outside too.

oceania

Indiancouple - sorry, when you said "You may want to reconsider buying the Spain-Portugal rail pass." I was under the assumption you were saying to buy one - but I was never intending to purchase, as you pointed out, it doesn't make much sense...just a crossing of wires I guess.

I think I've come up with a itinerary that I'm pretty happy with - I would welcome any constructive input...just be gentle!

4-Oct-2007 depart toronto
5-Oct-2007 arrive Madrid
6-Oct-2007 Madrid
7-Oct-2007 Toledo (day trip from Madrid_
8-Oct-2007 Madrid/Cordoba
9-Oct-2007 Cordoba
10-Oct-2007 Cordoba/Sevilla
11-Oct-2007 Sevilla
12-Oct-2007 Sevilla/Granada
13-Oct-2007 Granada
14-Oct-2007 Granada
15-Oct-2007 Granada > La Linea (Gibraltar)> Algerciras > Tangier
16-Oct-2007 Tangier > Fes
17-Oct-2007 Fes
18-Oct-2007 Fes
19-Oct-2007 Fes
20-Oct-2007 Meknes & Voulibis (day trip from Fes)
21-Oct-2007 Desert Tour
22-Oct-2007 Desert Tour
23-Oct-2007 Desert Tour
24-Oct-2007 Desert Tour
25-Oct-2007 Marrakesh
26-Oct-2007 Marrakesh
27-Oct-2007 Marrakesh
28-Oct-2007 Casablanca (1/2 day) overnight train to Tangier
29-Oct-2007 Tangier > Algeciras > Madrid
30-Oct-2007 Madrid
31-Oct-2007 Lisbon (only 10 euros on mon/tue!)
1-Nov-2007 Lisbon
2-Nov-2007 Lisbon
3-Nov-2007 Madrid
4-Nov-2007 depart Madrid

*Desert tour will include: Tizi nTichka, Ait Benhaddou, Ouarzazate, Dades Valley, Todra Gorge, Tinihir, Erg Chebbi, Merzouga and course a camel trek.

Just as a fyi - there are no cheap flights from Spain to Morocco so I rather waste a day travelling than forking over an extra $300-400 which is just the minimum.

I've estimated my transportation cost (including return flight home) roughly $1500 CAD - this is what I budgeted for so I'm quite pleased with that.

oceania

Thanks Clifton, I took you advice into consideration and decided to depart from Algeciras instead.