Some questions about Europe on the Cheap
Jun 16th, 2005, 04:21 PM
#41
Back to the nephew in question...
I believe it is fine to travel without an itinerary. But he really needs to understand how hostels work to be safe. It's an art to know the ropes, find the good ones, avoid the rip offs, etc. Not to mention I believe some hostels require a membership card (you have to join international hosteling or something like that).
Hopefully he can figure out how to pack a backpack for his basic needs. That part I strongly believe he needs to do for himself.
Petlover, it sounds like we above have already convinced you that somebody needs to raise more money for the trip... either him or his parents or both.
I believe it is fine to travel without an itinerary. But he really needs to understand how hostels work to be safe. It's an art to know the ropes, find the good ones, avoid the rip offs, etc. Not to mention I believe some hostels require a membership card (you have to join international hosteling or something like that).
Hopefully he can figure out how to pack a backpack for his basic needs. That part I strongly believe he needs to do for himself.
Petlover, it sounds like we above have already convinced you that somebody needs to raise more money for the trip... either him or his parents or both.
Jun 16th, 2005, 04:50 PM
#42
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I would definitely try and get him to commit to some hostels, in July they may well be booked up, as other posters suggested. Maybe try and find ones that offer some sort of breakfast included in the price to save on one meal a day. I second hostelworld.com, they have instant availability plus photos and reviews. I remember reading somewhere that many Europeans vacation in August, and some places may be fairly desolate. Conversely, he may want to avoid seaside or other vacation destinations since they may be booked or very expensive.
If for some reason the Eurail pass can be changed, check out http://www.railpass.com and click on railsaver. If you have a rough itinerary, it will tell you which (if any) Eurail passes are the best value. I would also tell him to look at www.bahn.de to find rail schedules from all over Europe (using the local name for the city to search).
As for itinerary, head towards Central or Eastern Europe for good values. Prague was very inexpensive as compared to western European countries. I would tell him to avoid London because it would probably break his budget. Good luck
If for some reason the Eurail pass can be changed, check out http://www.railpass.com and click on railsaver. If you have a rough itinerary, it will tell you which (if any) Eurail passes are the best value. I would also tell him to look at www.bahn.de to find rail schedules from all over Europe (using the local name for the city to search).
As for itinerary, head towards Central or Eastern Europe for good values. Prague was very inexpensive as compared to western European countries. I would tell him to avoid London because it would probably break his budget. Good luck
Jun 17th, 2005, 07:46 AM
#45
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Absolutely get a money belt that goes somewhere (neck pouch, leg, waist). He can save money on lodging by sleeping on overnight trains, but this is a prime situation for thefts. Young backpackers do use them! A lock/metal mesh sleeve that goes around his backpack will also be a good investment in peace of mind.
His parents might also want to invest in a pre-paid European cell phone for him so that he can contact hostels and them when he needs more cash. They should also get one of the ATM cards that parents can load for kids.
Rex offers some great comments. You are a saint, but truly, if he is old enough to go, he should be old enough to do more planning and budgeting for himself.
Finally, he should get reservations for hostels for the beginning of the trip. Once he is acclimated to being in a foreign country and part of the backpacker community, he will know the ropes and be able to find lodgings on his own.
If he is as naive as you say, he should also get on Fodors, Lonely Planet, Rick Steeves, etc. to read about scams, pickpockets, etc. to make sure he is prepared.
I wish him luck, but I think his parents should be prepared to supplement his trip if they don't want him on a park bench for the evening.
His parents might also want to invest in a pre-paid European cell phone for him so that he can contact hostels and them when he needs more cash. They should also get one of the ATM cards that parents can load for kids.
Rex offers some great comments. You are a saint, but truly, if he is old enough to go, he should be old enough to do more planning and budgeting for himself.
Finally, he should get reservations for hostels for the beginning of the trip. Once he is acclimated to being in a foreign country and part of the backpacker community, he will know the ropes and be able to find lodgings on his own.
If he is as naive as you say, he should also get on Fodors, Lonely Planet, Rick Steeves, etc. to read about scams, pickpockets, etc. to make sure he is prepared.
I wish him luck, but I think his parents should be prepared to supplement his trip if they don't want him on a park bench for the evening.
Jun 17th, 2005, 09:09 AM
#46
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Great advice from Fodorites as always!!!
I am hesitant to make this suggestion as it is clearly not a good idea but no one has said it so I will........have him take a credit card. His parents would need to co-sign but they have partially created the financial dilemma he will be facing. If he abuses it over there then he will face reality when he gets home (hopefully). However, I think I would choose credit card debit over true hunger any time. If he had a limit of $2000 that would double his money for the trip. Like I said not exactly a lesson you want to teach him but it does work short-term.
I am hesitant to make this suggestion as it is clearly not a good idea but no one has said it so I will........have him take a credit card. His parents would need to co-sign but they have partially created the financial dilemma he will be facing. If he abuses it over there then he will face reality when he gets home (hopefully). However, I think I would choose credit card debit over true hunger any time. If he had a limit of $2000 that would double his money for the trip. Like I said not exactly a lesson you want to teach him but it does work short-term.
Jun 17th, 2005, 09:32 AM
#47
I believe the ATM that parent *could* load money on to in an emergency, as mentioned above, is a more positive idea than a credit card with $2000 available.
While I do feel the parents *may* need to be a fall back in this situation, plenty of kids travel on the cheap at that age, with not much bigger budget than he has saved for himself (remember he's staying with friends several times).
I think stepping in, doubling his funds, and giving him a safety net before he even gets started... doesn't send the best message.
While I do feel the parents *may* need to be a fall back in this situation, plenty of kids travel on the cheap at that age, with not much bigger budget than he has saved for himself (remember he's staying with friends several times).
I think stepping in, doubling his funds, and giving him a safety net before he even gets started... doesn't send the best message.
Jun 17th, 2005, 10:11 AM
#48
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Get him to check the Hostels International website:
www.hihostels.com
Lots of good info.
I stayed at Youth Hostels when I first went to Europe - best way to meet other people his own age and the staff are usually quite helpful and they do supply about the cheapest accomodations.
www.hihostels.com
Lots of good info.
I stayed at Youth Hostels when I first went to Europe - best way to meet other people his own age and the staff are usually quite helpful and they do supply about the cheapest accomodations.
Jun 17th, 2005, 11:28 AM
#50
Thank you, ahotpoet. I feel pretty strongly about that point.
One important result of travel is 'lessons learned'. Having Mom & Dad's $$ at the ready with the first bump in the road I believe would prevent this learning process from happening.
One important result of travel is 'lessons learned'. Having Mom & Dad's $$ at the ready with the first bump in the road I believe would prevent this learning process from happening.
Jun 17th, 2005, 11:57 AM
#51
Oops, back to the original question, I don't think the $2000 is as far off as some of you do. I do not believe he needs double the amount but only a little bit more saved up.
petlover mentions in a later post here, that he is going to stay with friends for two different 1 week time periods. that lowers the overall hostel bill. and hopefully these folks might feed him too.
then with the rail pass there's always the option of sleeping (in seats) on overnight trains. again a savings on lodging.
so even $500 more for the trip, less the potential savings not paying for a bed on 2-3 weeks worth of nights...
and I think he's there!
petlover mentions in a later post here, that he is going to stay with friends for two different 1 week time periods. that lowers the overall hostel bill. and hopefully these folks might feed him too.
then with the rail pass there's always the option of sleeping (in seats) on overnight trains. again a savings on lodging.
so even $500 more for the trip, less the potential savings not paying for a bed on 2-3 weeks worth of nights...
and I think he's there!
Jun 17th, 2005, 12:12 PM
#52
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I thought I clearly made the point that a giving the kid a credit card was a bad idea but not an unreasonable idea. The more I think about it, I would say it is essential to travel with a credit card in case of an emergency.
On a seperate note, health care abroad differs and no one has mentioned travel insurance. This may be a topic that others want to comment on.
On a seperate note, health care abroad differs and no one has mentioned travel insurance. This may be a topic that others want to comment on.
Jun 17th, 2005, 12:30 PM
#53
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suze - yesterday you posted "it sounds like we above have already convinced you that somebody needs to raise more money for the trip... either him or his parents or both."
So why less than 24 hours later are you criticizing my idea of a credit card as a method to raise additional funds (regardless of the amount)? If most people agree he needs more money then it is not really a safety net, per se.
I am willing to bet the parents bought the ticket and the rail pass hoping their son would have a fabulous trip which would be a great learning experience. I seriously doubt they want him to not have enough money to eat or stay in a safe place. I applaud petlover in helping them look out for his best interest. The reality is that if he runs out of money overseas he will be calling them to "bail him out". What parent would knowingly let their kid suffer on the vacation they helped pay for if they didn't have to?
So why less than 24 hours later are you criticizing my idea of a credit card as a method to raise additional funds (regardless of the amount)? If most people agree he needs more money then it is not really a safety net, per se.
I am willing to bet the parents bought the ticket and the rail pass hoping their son would have a fabulous trip which would be a great learning experience. I seriously doubt they want him to not have enough money to eat or stay in a safe place. I applaud petlover in helping them look out for his best interest. The reality is that if he runs out of money overseas he will be calling them to "bail him out". What parent would knowingly let their kid suffer on the vacation they helped pay for if they didn't have to?
Jun 17th, 2005, 01:21 PM
#54
for suzanne (only because you specifically asked):
By raising more money I had in mind income from his continued employment or the parents chipping in a small amount. Not giving him a $2000 cushion just 'cuz. You yourself said this was probably not a good idea then posted it anyway.
2) We got more and more information as this thread unraveled. The fact that he has 2 weeks worth of a free place to stay for one thing. And someone mentioned about being able to sleep on trains when you have a rail pass, something I hadn't thought of.
I still DO think he needs more money, but just a little more.
My criticism of your idea of a parental bail out charge card, is that loads of kids backpack around Europe on their own planning and own funds. I think doubling the money he has worked hard for simply because you might be worried is not the best solution at all.
By raising more money I had in mind income from his continued employment or the parents chipping in a small amount. Not giving him a $2000 cushion just 'cuz. You yourself said this was probably not a good idea then posted it anyway.
2) We got more and more information as this thread unraveled. The fact that he has 2 weeks worth of a free place to stay for one thing. And someone mentioned about being able to sleep on trains when you have a rail pass, something I hadn't thought of.
I still DO think he needs more money, but just a little more.
My criticism of your idea of a parental bail out charge card, is that loads of kids backpack around Europe on their own planning and own funds. I think doubling the money he has worked hard for simply because you might be worried is not the best solution at all.
Jun 17th, 2005, 01:54 PM
#57
I understand that.
I think what is coming out on this thread now illustrates different approaches to travel. What people need to feel comfortable. Generally speaking Fodors poster are older and more conservative and better funded (than say those on Lonely Planet's BB), their travel style well-planned, safe and secure.
Because that is how you prefer to travel, does not make it the only way to do it. Just ask the hundreds if not thousands of young people who have a ball backpacking around Europe on a shoestring every year.
I think what is coming out on this thread now illustrates different approaches to travel. What people need to feel comfortable. Generally speaking Fodors poster are older and more conservative and better funded (than say those on Lonely Planet's BB), their travel style well-planned, safe and secure.
Because that is how you prefer to travel, does not make it the only way to do it. Just ask the hundreds if not thousands of young people who have a ball backpacking around Europe on a shoestring every year.
Jun 17th, 2005, 02:01 PM
#58
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Sorry ,there really isn,t a way to go cheap.I haved researched for months and most of the time cheap is usually pretty bad. I ,m not saying that sometimes even a blind squirrel gets a nut ,but don,t count on it . My opinion is give him a trip in the U.S.A. he's young let him go some other time.You are concerned about losingf a passport.. do you think he is ready for this.
Jun 17th, 2005, 02:11 PM
#59
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If a traveler of any age needs to be evacuated and has no insurance and no money, most likely his parents would end up paying for it if they are financially capable and still alive. It's not as if he would pay for it himself. I'm pretty sure even Lonely Planet recommends insurance.
So it would be wise for his parents to get him travel insurance unless they are very serious about not wanting to bail him out of any emergency at all.
So it would be wise for his parents to get him travel insurance unless they are very serious about not wanting to bail him out of any emergency at all.
Jun 17th, 2005, 02:43 PM
#60
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Apparently his parents don't have a clue as to how much a European trip costs, even a very low-budget one. I agree, I highly doubt that they want him to be in a position where he can't buy enough food to eat (even at grocery stores) or doesn't have a safe place to sleep. Their giving him more $, if they decided to do so, is not a safety net or bailing him out, it's a matter of him having enough for the bare essentials.
