latebloomer

i consider myself a reasonably competent person, yet routinely get lost in the city in which I've lived imy entire life. I know no one who is worse at following directions. I just do a lot of bone-headed things.

I also have some hesitancy about driving in a foreign country. While I'm sure I'd be fine, as a novice traveler, I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible, I know not driving is depriving me of some very special experiences - quaint villages in Italy, for instance - but right now, I'll be more relaxed if someone else does the driving.

As an aside, this afternoon, I added 8 days to my trip, probably to make Crakow happen.

... Back to the books.

kja

Another 8 days - wonderful! Yes, with that extra time, you should certainly be able to include Krakaw.

FWIW, I do sometimes rent a car when I travel, but I prefer to avoid doing so when public transportation suits my needs. For the places you are considering, I think you should be able to have a very rewarding experience without a car. I did!

Aramis

Does the 8 extra days mean you are now looking for places to visit between Prague and Budapest which you can use to break up the otherwise long train trips to Krakow? Or are you;

- thinking of flying into and out of Krakow and then adding some time around it to make up 8 days?

- going to add 4 days to Krakow and then add the other extra days to some of your other destinations?

- going to add 4 days to Krakow and 4 days to another city?

latebloomer

kja - I took the plunge and made it a 40 day trip because you so piqued my interest in Krakow... Thanking you in advance.

Aramis - I haven't begun to research how to allocate that 8 days (beyond adding 4-5 days to Krakow). At this point, I am leaning towards not adding an additional destination and spending more time in some of my other destinations. (And yes, I would fly to Krakow.)

I also am concerned about balance. WWII history is perhaps my strongest interest and I will be visiting some extraordinarily somber places. I wouldn't miss any of it for the world - no matter how emotionally difficult - but I want to make sure I'm including joy and beauty along the way.

As I read threads here, the advice given repeatedly is to ask WHY someone I going to X place, rather than blindly knocking it off a list because it's a "great city" or so and so says it's not to be missed. (Candidly (hold your fire, people", this is now a question mark in my mind about Spain (sans Barcelona), especially as I had very much wanted to end the trip on a beautiful coastline and am reading many less than stellar reviews about most things "Costa.")

kja

"At this point, I am leaning towards not adding an additional destination and spending more time in some of my other destinations." I think that would be a good way to approach your planning, at least for now!

You might look into options to start in Krakow. Or even fly into Warsaw, which most people find can be seen in just a couple of days or so.

"I want to make sure I'm including joy and beauty along the way." Shouldn't be a problem!

latebloomer

Kja,

I'm scheduled to arrive in Frankfurt from Los Angeles. Were you you suggesting I look into 1) flying from Frankfurt to Krakow (or Warsaw) to begin, or 2) flying into Krakow from Los Angeles? If the latter, I spent several hours yesterday trying to change my arrival city, but with my mileage upgrades, it's just impossible. (And I am not giving those 1st class seats up to save my life. :+) )

Where did you stay in Krakow and would you recommend it?

kja

Sorry -- I had forgotten you already had your flights, so I was thinking of flying into Warsaw from LA. But given that you have your flights -- 1st class ones! -- you might consider going straight to Warsaw from Frankfurt, if that's an option.

I haven't been to Krakow since 1985, when I was traveling on an extremely tight budget, so I can't recommend the place I stayed. I would urge you to consider staying in the Old Town, which is absolutely charming. Are you familiar with booking.com? I find it a useful source of information about accommodations.

PalenQ

Krakow in 1985 in the throes of Commie-Soviet domination must have been a really grim place versus the Krakow I saw several years after Poland broke off the Soviet Commie chains. I can just imagine - few stores with anything good in them - smog, crumbling buildings and streets, etc.

kja

Krakow was completely lovely in 1985 (which was after the Solidarity Movement) -- or at least the Old Town, which is what I visited, was lovely -- I can't speak to the rest of the city. Old Town Square was lined with lively cafes and shops and the Cloth Hall held many friendly vendors who sold high quality hand-crafted goods, among other things. Quite in contrast to Warsaw, which was on the decidedly grim side.

Andrew

I visited Krakow in 2012. One thing I found in eastern Europe is that unlike western Europe, there are fewer conventional hotels - mind you, they exist, but there are more "alternative" options like apartments and private rooms at hostels, etc.

I opted in Krakow for a small apartment close to the Rynek (main square) and also not far from the train station, in a complex called Krakow City Apartments. The location was great, the price was good. The place felt a little old and run down but was otherwise clean and comfortable. I would recommend it but not enthusiastically. I would certainly stay there again but would try somewhere else if I found something better.

Staying in an apartment may freak out travelers who are not used to "self-service" accommodation; there's no "front desk" you can just visit anytime though there's an apartment office open a few hours a day for check-in etc. But I really prefer to stay in places like this now, because as a solo traveler I rarely need hotel-type amenities or service. Some people do.

I would read Trip Advisor reviews on a few recommended places. Read lots of the reviews - yes, there may be a few fake ones but if you read through them you can find trends and get a real feeling for the place. I've rarely been disappointed with a place after reading its reviews on TA.

GLM

I hope you provide a trip report! It sounds like a great itinerary.

bvlenci

If you want to end your trip in a beautiful coastal location, Sardegna is the first place that I would consider. There are dozens of places to choose from. Maybe save Spain for another trip, and devote several weeks to that visit.

Aramis

Krakow is still going to be a big logistical challenge. There are no non-stop flights to Krakow from Prague or Budapest so putting it in between them means a couple of connecting flights, possibly with somewhat lengthy layovers. I have had difficulty trying to cheap fares into Krakow, too. When we went we did it as a three legged journey; flying from home into Vienna, flying Vienna to Krakow, then flying home from Krakow. If you are interested in the possible routing below, let me know and I will scrounge around and see what kind of fares are showing so you can assess the option. You can take a train to Vienna from Krakow that takes 6:36; one leaves at 7:16 am, another at 13:16, making a quick change in Katowice. Otherwise it is an 8:45 long trip, or an overnight train leaving at around 10 pm and arriving at just after 6 am.

Berlin and Vienna do have non-stop flights to Krakow, so if you were to travel FRA - Prague - Dresden - Berlin, you could then fly on to Krakow, fly out to Vienna, and then train on to Budapest. An issue with that is that it takes about 6:45 to get to Prague from FRA, and it requires changing to a bus in Nurnberg. Not a horrible trip but maybe no very enticing on the date of arrival. But, since you state that WWII is a primary interest, stopping in Nurnberg for a couple of days might just fit and break up the transport pieces nicely. It is a pleasant and interesting place to stay for a couple of days - I have been twice and have not visited any WWII sites there - and could serve well to ease you out of jet lag. It is only 2:22, direct, from the train station right in Frankfurt airport. There is one more option of getting to Prague from FRA - flying a one way leg after arriving. It means booking a separate ticket and if your flight is delayed, causing you to miss the Prague flight, you have to start fro scratch. If you don't mind waiting in the FRA airport for a few hours you can book the one way leg with more security. Others will want to tell you this is crazy, but the risks are clearly stated here so you can make the choice. Here is what a routing (no suggested nights) could look like;

FRA
Nurnberg
Prague
Dresden
Berlin
Krakow - FLY
Vienna - FLY (or 6:36 via train)
Budapest (2:34 from Vienna)
Madrid
Seville
Barcelona

I see you may be debating Spain as a conclusion? If you want to ensure some beauty, Seville is gorgeous, Barcelona quite attractive, and there are several towns located within 45 minutes of Barcelona that are fantastic. I will join any chorus that rates the Costa del Sol as a tragic case of nearly unbroken commercial development but the Costa Brava, around Barcelona, has less of that. Take a look at Sitges, less than 40 minutes away. Girona is not on the beach but also only 40 minutes away and a terrific day trip.

latebloomer

Aramis, would you marry me?

Seriously, this is tremendous. Let me look at this more closely. My flight from LA is long enough that I think it best to get on a (reasonably) short train from FRA to my first destination and to not try to fly again. I'm also hesitant about making my first stop one where I'm there less than 4-5 nights. (I tend to walk into walls for a good 2 days b/c of jet lag and suffer from some at times serious back pain.) That's why I thought I would start in Berlin, where I can find plenty to do for 5-6 days.

I spent a couple hours looking at different options for flying to Krakow. Wow. You weren't kidding about what a slog it is. Even with one of the more expensive air fares, the very best case scenario appears to involve at least 8-10 hours getting there. It makes me wonder whether a train really is such a horrible option or whether I should seriously consider scratching Budapest in order to minimize travel time. That's my principal concern as I look at my itinerary. I'm ABSOLUTELY not there yet, but I'm reluctantly beginning to acknowledge that I'm probably trying to do too much with 38 days when at least the last two weeks will be in Spain. (And much thanks for the promising ideas about Spain.)

latebloomer

bvlenci -- Sardegna is just breathtaking. Truly. But my ticket is purchased and the departure city (Barcelona) set in stone. Given the rest of my itinerary, I fear I will (sob) have to save Sardegna for another day.

Andrew

Although not ideal, there is direct, daytime bus service (about 6:15 travel time) from Budapest to Krakow (several days a week, not every day so check the schedules carefully):

http://www.orangeways.com

I'm not a fan of six hour bus rides - but in this case it might be preferable to a 9:21 train ride with two connections. The buses in Europe are in general better than in the US in my experience - not exactly luxurious but comfortable (there is luggage storage under the bus). Many of them have WiFi.

Aramis

Latebloomer;

My wife values my predilection for travel research and planning as much, or perhaps more, than whatever other redeeming traits I bring to our relationship so a move to LA might be a bit of a gamble....�� Maybe a coffee or meal someday if our paths cross.....

Europe trip #20 is already roughed out for next May (we will just.miss you in Dresden by a few weeks) and I am determined to get to 50 trips and 2 years of my life (cumulative) spent in Europe before the body gives out.

I'm just happy to try and give people the information they need to make decisions that suit their desires and personal style of travel, whatever they may be.

Keep the questions coming......

latebloomer

Fair enough, Aramis. Fair enough.

At this point, my head feels like it's going to explode (but in a good way). This forum is insanely addictive. Some new guidebooks arrived yesterday. So I'm going to put the mouse down, back away from the computer (and all electronics that begin with the letter "i"), and hit the books for a bit. Let's see what bubbles to the surface.

Aramis

A very good plan. It all begins in your own mind.

Each individual must decide what it is that they just must see, or what they want to experience, in the amount of time available and considering the pace at which they want to move.

Then comes the tragically wonderful process of whittling away what must wait until the next trip... and the next trip...and the next...

kja

FWIW ... see if you can fly from Frankfurt (or anywhere else that is convenient) to Warsaw. Spend 2 days there. Then take the train to Krakow (it's not far). I took the overnight train from Krakow to Budapest, but I like sleeping on trains; not everyone does.

As the saying goes, the world is full of insurmountable opportunities. ;-) Happy planning!