sally

I've certainly read here repeatedly that it is much cheaper to order tickets through SNCF than Raileurope and that was my intention. However, when I added up the fares we need - one at a Senior rate and one reg. adult fare - Brugge to Strasbourg, Strasbourg to Annecy, Annecy to Paris, it came out to about $510.00 CDN incl. Senior Carte. A France Pass on the RE site is $566.00 CDN. and would allow four trips, so we would have another side trip free. Am I missing something? I see no option for Rail Pass type purchase on SNCF. Does anyone out there know a trick I might be missing in this process?

Andre

Sally,<BR><BR>2 things: <BR><BR>1) For the domestic portions (Strasbourg -Annecy & Annecy - Paris): if you book a month or more in advance, you can benefit from so-called J30 fares which are much cheaper than standard or even most senior discount fares (especially when you factor in the price for the "Carte Senior"). Did you plug in your actual travel dates? I would try clicking on the "other fares" link when the price for your journey first appears to show all available fares.<BR><BR>2) AFAIK, your France Pass doesn't include reservations, which are mandatory on TGVs and cost extra (how much?)<BR><BR>In summary, I can't imagine that you would be saving money with a pass vs. normal tickets. Why don't you post your dates and I'll price the journey for you.<BR><BR>Andre

sally

Andre...you're wonderful!! I saw an explanation for the J fares on the site, but didn't know how to go about getting them to come up. Our plans?...my husband turns 60 two days after we arrive in Paris so he will be eligible for the Senior fares after that. We wish to travel on October 21 Paris to Brugge, October 23 Brugge to Strasbourg, October 27 Strasbourg to Annecy, October 31 Annecy to Paris. And now that I have you "on the line" so to speak, I have another question. We will stay in a Paris hotel near CDG on October 31 as our flight leaves at 11:00 am Nov. 1. We have since learned that Nov. 1 is a holiday in France. Will we have trouble getting to the airport on public transportation this day? In that this is a holiday is there anything else we should keep in mind when planning our departure? Thanks for your help!

Rex

Your post illustrates beautifully (to me) why I canNOT understand the appeal of a pass. It seduces you into thinking that traveling MORE on the train - - and pre-paying so that you have already committed to spending that money - - somehow gives you a better trip to Europe.<BR><BR>Why would you pay $566 for tickets that cost $510, for the "lure" of getting "another trip" for "free" (actually 56 dollars, not free)? A pass IS a good deal if you're on a saleman's route, and need to ride the train everyday (that's why they're not sold IN Europe). But the best trip is not the one with the MOST train riding. <BR><BR>See where you are more. Travel around less.<BR><BR>With Brugge, Strasbourg, Annecy and Paris, you have the makings for a great trip. Don't be seduced into thinking that you can improve upon it by squeezing in more places, and less time at each place.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

sally

I wondered if I'd hear from you Rex....I certainly see your name up here a great deal and I appreciate your reply. Although I stated I would be receiving a "free" trip, of course you are right, it isn't free. What I neglected to state is that we (I think) have decided to travel strictly by train or by foot, or perhaps the odd bus here and there. What we were thinking was that the Pass would give us an extra day of travel to places around Strasbourg or Annecy which we expect we will be taking anyway. What I didn't allow for is the cost to make a reservation and the cost of sending the pass to Canada and they hit us for a pretty penny to do that. Thanks for your advice though. I'm still waiting for Andre's reply becuase I'll be darned if I can get the J30 fares to display on the Sncf site. Today I was checking on fares for several of the routes we will be travelling. It kept giving me different fares for the same route depending on whether I used the "booking" link or the "timetable" link.....very strange. When I used the "select"option, yet another fare would appear. I cussed "en francais" and gave up, waiting for Andre to help me out I hope. Thanks! One more question....We've read that going up the Augille du Midi lift can leave one a little "giddy". Is this anything like being dizzy, or drunk? Sadly, I do not handle either of these states well and I barf. I have no desire to do so at 3700 feet and nor I'm sure will anyone else wish to share this experience with me. Can anyone tell me a little more about what we should expect if we opt for this aparently breathtaking experience?

tops

ttt

clairobscur

When you book the ticket, just above the window with the number of seats and the age of passengers there's a "If you wish a special fare click here" link. Do so, and you'll get a "choose a fare" box with the various discounted fares. The "decouverte" J30 and J8 fares are at the bottom of the list.

sally

thanks for the reply Clair. I'm beginning to think I'm going a little crazy planning this thing, BUT, your suggestion did not work. When I click on the "if you wish a special fare link" the J fares do not appear as a choice. The only thing that comes up are Senior, Child, etc. I even tried the French site, thinking maybe they just don't show it on the English version. It doesn't come up for me there either. The J fares are described in the text portion of the site where all the various fares are shown. What the heck am I doing wrong?

Sue

Also, Sally, I think your French pass would start at the border, so you would have to pay from Brugge to the French border.

Sue

Sally, You need all four days (Paris-Lille-then pay Lille-Brugge, pay-Brugge-Thionville-then Thionville-Strasbourg, Strasbourg-Annecy, Annecy-Paris). The second-class Francesaver Pass is $196 for the first person (no age discount), and $171 for the second, or a total of $571 Canadian. Then you would need to buy the Belgian portion of your trip. I'll give SNCF a shot, but it hasn't been very friendy lately.

clairobscur

Sally,<BR><BR>I don't understand the problem. They definitely appear on the english version of the site. Are you sure you look to the bottom of the list? The decouverte J30/J8 are the two last fares<BR><BR>In case you would see the list only up to "SENIOR CARD 50%" : you have to move the little thingie (don't know the english name) on the right to see the complete list.

Sue

I've found that J30 or J8 only come up if it is available, and then it comes up automatically (on the booking section).<BR><BR>OK, Sally, I just priced it all out on SNCF. Since you can't buy tickets more than 2 months in advance, I had to price the last 2 legs earlier in the month, but on the same day of the week. All prices are for two with one over 60: Paris-Bruges &euro;130 (plus reservation) includes 1 senior discount most of the way; Bruges-Strasbourg &euro;129 (no discount); Strasbourg-Annecy &euro;89 (1 senior discount); Annecy-Paris &euro;72 (2 J30 discounts), for a total of &euro420, or $635 Canadian.<BR><BR>By avoiding the Thalys to Bruges (privately owned), I was able to come up with several J30 &euro;42 (!) fares for two on the TGV to Lille, with the cost of 2 tickets Lille-Bruges being &euro;36. This reduces the cost of ticket total to &euro;371 or $561 CAD. You would have to book these two tickets separately; I noticed that there is a Lille-Bruges train at 9:05 and 1:05 that require no extra train change. You might try to arrive in Lille in time for those trains.<BR><BR>The passes would cost you $571, and you would still have to buy the Belgian extensions (&euro;36 + 89 Bruges-Thionville--$CAD 189 more) and go through Lille, since the pass is not valid on Thalys.<BR><BR>My advice is to book the tickets on SNCF (don't use express and don't try to book more than two months ahead); You'll get a receipt for each one by e-mail, and you can pick up your tickets in Paris at a station or at an SNCF boutique (there should be one close to your hotel). That's really the only way you can get the J30/J8 discounts which make ticket purchase cheaper.<BR><BR>When I fake-booked your tickets, the cheapest fare came up automatically--just don't accept a "Carte Senior" fare because you have to pay extra for the "carte." "Decouverte Senior" is what you are looking for (25% discount). But best of all is J30, although these are nonrefundable.<BR><BR>One caveat--because All Saints Day is a holiday (and possibly part of a weeklong school holiday), you might not be able to get the J30 on October 31. Remember that the last two legs were priced on similar days, not the exact days.<BR><BR>Also remember that even with a pass, you will have to buy reservations for certain trains (TGVs, for example) which run a couple of euros in France, but at least $10US on the raileurope site.<BR><BR>Hope this makes some sense. Ask questions, if not.

Sue

I don't know where you came up with $510 on Raileurope. I priced the tickets for two thusly in Canadian dollars: Paris-Bruges $239 (1 normal, 1 senior); Bruges-Strasbourg was not in their database; Strasbourg to Annecy $216 (no disc.); Annecy-Paris $274 (there was cheaper, but it was a night train), for a total of $629, not including Bruges-Strasbourg. And I didn't see anything about a senior card. What did I miss? Let's face it, the $274 is a lot more than the $64 (&euro;42) I came up with for Annecy-Paris.

up

up<BR>

Andre

Sally,<BR><BR>Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - my day job sometimes interferes with the quality time I spend on this forum ;-)<BR><BR>Anyway, I took a closer look at your itinerary and have a few remarks & suggestions:<BR>1) Go to the Swiss Railways' web site and check the actual timetables for the routes you want to take:<BR>http://www.rail.ch/pv/index_e.htm<BR>You'll see that you're trying to plan far too much into those 10 days: the better part of 4 of them will be spent on the train (especially Brugge to Strasbourg: 6hrs and Strasbourg to Annecy: 7hrs20min!). I would definitely recommend skipping Annecy (even though it's a beautiful place) and perhaps substituting Strasbourg with Amsterdam. Another option would be to skip Belgium & the Alsace and head south to see Lyon and Annecy / Mt. Blanc (although a rental car would come in very useful for exploring and the weather can be very iffy in late October). The problem with the French railway system is that the high speed links are between Paris and the other regions - they do not connect those regions to each other...<BR><BR>b) I don't understand your comparison between the France Pass and point to point tickets as the pass wouldn't be valid for 2 of the 4 journeys you mention: Paris-Brugge on the Thalys and most of the Brugge-Strasbourg journey. The pass makes absolutely no sense.<BR><BR>c)The J fares I referred to are only available on domestic trains, so for part of the way from Paris to Bruges (if you change in Lille) and not at all from Brussels to Strasbourg (almost the entire journey is in Belgium & Luxemburg).<BR>I priced the 3 legs of the journey I would suggest - here are the results:<BR>1) Paris - Bruges<BR>On TGV connections with change in Lille-Flandre, J30 fare is EUR 33.70 per person and J8 is EUR 43.70 per person (beware, these sell out very fast!). On Thalys connections (a little faster - change in Brussels), senior fare (60 and above) is EUR 54.40 and standard fare is EUR 75.90.<BR>2) Bruges - Strasbourg:<BR>SNCF only quotes a standard fare of EUR 64.50, but I would check with the Belgian Railways for discounts(see below).<BR>3) Strasbourg - Paris:<BR>J30 fare @ EUR 22 (!) per person.<BR><BR>d) For the Bruges to Strasbourg trip, I would strongly recommend booking your tickets & seat reservations directly with the Belgian railways (SNCB) - they may be able to give you a senior (or other) discount fare and it's always better to purchase tickets in the country your journey starts in (makes exchanges a lot easier). You can reach them at:<BR>011-32-2-528-2828<BR>or (info only - no online booking for your routing):<BR>www.sncb.be<BR><BR>e) One last remark: in order to get the fares I quoted on the SNCF site, I simply filled in the passengers as follows: 1 senior 60 yrs old no "carte", one adult 55 yrs old no "carte". The fares were the default ones which popped up. Pickup country for tickets is FRANCE and you MUST prepay (they will issue the prepaid tickets at any train station or "boutique SNCF" in France but won't mail them to Canada). International trains open up for reservation 90 days in advance, domestic ones 60 days ahead.<BR><BR>Hope this helps,<BR>Andre

sally

Thanks to everyone for their help ans suggestions. The SNCF site took some getting used to, and some persistence ( I kept getting almost to the end of a long booking and then a message would appear stating that they were having technical difficulties...try again later). I did keep trying and we are all booked. The SNCF site was definitely better than Rail Europe and they have even emailed me replies "en anglais" to specific questions I had regarding reserving non smoking cars. Our total bill came under 570.00 CAD. This site is great with so much collective knowledge for those of us who know zip about what we're doing! Thanks again