This is marginally related to europe travel, but in fact, it will impact our May trip to Central europe, because we have left two days at thend to be able to visit one university, as a prospective candidate where our youngest daughter would like to enroll in Januray 2004 (when she would be a second semester sophomore). She is currently a first year student at Clemson University, majoring in secondary education, concentration English.<BR><BR>She will almost certainly enroll through the IFSA (Butler University), and there are 15-20 schools from which to choose. It isn't as if she hasn't made a good start on doing her homework - - but the more she reads, the more confused she is (I know that feeling - - too much to like).<BR><BR>Her &quot;short list&quot; includes at least four schools in Scotland: Glasgow, Stirling, Edinbourgh and St. Andrews - - and three (maybe more) in England: Sussex, Leeds, or Oxford Brookes. She is certain that he is NOT interested in any of the London schools.<BR><BR>She is a bright, self-starter who will thrive in any environment - - though she is skepitcal of any schol that is &quot;too big&quot; (for example, Leeds). She is as interested in the community and region as the school and its programs. She is also attracted to the possibility of courses on &quot;comparative education&quot; which might draw students from many different countries.<BR><BR>Be (mostly coincidence), she is the most traveled of our three children - - our upcoming trip in May will be her number five, of which two have included England. I'll be a little bit surprised if she were to leave the British Isles in the course of her one semester there (but maybe Ireland, NI, Scotland or Wales, or elsewhere in England for the occasional weekend - - depending on where she goes) - - but who knows, maybe a quick zip-off to Italy (she's been there twice before) would be reasonable if she is close enough to an airport with cheap flights.<BR><BR>So, this is a very open-ended question for anyone with any relevant comments to make: know anyone who has studied abroad anywhere in the UK? Any advice broadly speaking (or even highly specific)?<BR><BR>We know that 99% of such students never see the campus beforehand, and we do not consider it necessary - - just a kind of added-on &quot;make you feel good about the decision&quot; kind of thing.<BR><BR>Thanks in advance,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>[email protected]<BR>

Of the short list you provided - the best would be Oxford or Edinburgh with St Andrews a distant third.<BR><BR>Of course Oxford and Edinburgh have outstanding programs - but both cities have even more to offer college students, plus excellent transport connections to anywhere.

I agree with Janis -- Oxford and Edinburgh are by far the best schools academically, and they're both located in historical, and transporation-convenient cities/towns. She'd have the richest experience at either of those schools. I wouldn't call St. Andrews too distant a third -- it's gorgeous and a true college town. But it would be harder to travel throughout Europe from St. Andrews. <BR>It's a pity she's not interested in any of the London Universities, particularly the University of London. Kings College is excellent, and London is easy to travel to and from. But perhaps I'm just being sentimental as I spent a wonderful junior year abroad there...

I would slightly disagree with Janis. Sorry I’m not helping the confusion. For general academic achievement and reputation as Universities as a whole (ie I’m not commenting on the specific course of choice) St Andrew’s &amp; Edinburgh for Scotland. Leeds is very highly rated (My old Alumni). Dont get Oxford Brooks confused with the old Universities of Oxford. It was an Art school and nursing school and part of the old polytechnic system. It only became a university a few years ago. As for towns and communities again Leeds is very good for nightlife and accommodation is good and relatively cheap &pound;40 per week for a shared house.<BR>Whille it is has a large student population, it is a real English City with a very diverse population and history, but i am biased. Good Luck

I'm familiar with most of the universities you've mentioned except Brookes (nee Oxford Poly), and, given that we don't know your daughter nor the specific things she wants to study, I'd offer the following thoughts -<BR><BR>First, if Leeds is too big, the remaining English schools are both fairly new and lacking in much &quot;tradition&quot; if that means anything, especially when compared to the Scottish universities. Brookes in Oxford (not part of Oxford University, BTW) and Sussex in Brighton have the advantages of being in interesting cities and close enough to London for easy forays into the metropolis. Neither campus is architecturally significant, Sussex especially being a product of fairly bleak 1960s British design.<BR><BR>North of the border, it's another story. St Andrews is the smallest of the universities, and offers the most cohesive community. The university is integrated into the town and doesn't really have a &quot;campus&quot; as such. Fife is a wonderful place for studying, but it's a distinctly small town environment, albeit with a very high academic image.<BR><BR>Stirling, on the other hand, is a newer campus located a ways from central Stirling. Like Sussex, the university is a child of the 60s, and does not possess the history or traditions of the others.<BR><BR>Glasgow and Edinburgh are big universities with rich histories and ample options for student life and activities. Both are &quot;in-city&quot; schools, with reasonably compact &quot;campus&quot; districts, and many, many foreign students. Glasgow and Edinburgh offer all the usual big city advantages and distractions, so if that's a plus, so be it; if not, then neither may suit. Edinburgh's main &quot;campus&quot; around George Square is a lively area, and of course you probably know the reputation of the EU medical school next door.<BR><BR>As the dad of a (what? 20 year old?) second year, I guess I'd opt for St Andrews from your list, with Edinburgh in second place, Glasgow third. I have to admit, though, that it's a pretty subjective call. If it were &quot;junior&quot; year abroad I'd probably change the order to Glasgow, Edinburgh and St Andrews on the presumption (presumptous) that with increased maturity she'd handle big city distractions better.<BR><BR>Good luck in your deliberations.

JimSteel - You are cartainly right about Leeds - It is a terrific university, I have friends who went there. But my feeling is it's probably not best for an American's semester abroad if she wants &quot;atmosphere&quot; as well as education.<BR><BR>An the only reason I put St Andrews down the table is because of the transport issues - no train service except from Leuchars and iffy bus service.<BR><BR>True, Brooke is a converted poly - but being in Oxford allows her access to all the university facilities. A great experience.

Wow, thanks for these first quick replies. Amplifying on a few comments made - - we are (she is) NOT confused about Oxford Brookes - - her certain preference over Oxford (which doesn't offer programs in a major in education).<BR><BR>I appreciate the comments from petitepois - - curious if you went through IFSA-Butler.org? I can't imagine that she won't visit London (again, third time) at least sometime during her semester.<BR><BR>Likewise appreciate the comments on Leeds - - though the accommodation is actually a bit of a negative perhaps - - in the sense that she prefers a campus that guarantees ON-campus housing.<BR><BR>Right after posting this, I did have a chat with a counselor (serving as my daughter's secretary at her request; she'll be home tonight on spring break for a week), setting up a follow-up telelphone &quot;interview&quot; next week. She was negative on St. Andrew's (they rarely, if ever, take sophomores), and also on Oxford Brookes (thinking to drop them from the program because of too liitle interest from US students). Might be regrettable because it has some strong offerings in &quot;comparative education&quot;.<BR><BR>Anyone have comments on Sussex or the Brighton area, in general?<BR>

Rex -- I studied abroad through Beaver College. They run a tight ship and I had a great time. Terrific housing! But I'm not sure if they're still running their abroad program. I did meet many many happy and satisfied IFSA-Butler students. <BR>It's hard to believe, but it's been almost 10 years since I studied abroad! Things are probably very different now.

To start with, in the UK universities are never referred to as schools.<BR>All the institutions on your list have good reputations.<BR>It depends on what sort of environment she likes. Edinburgh and Glasgow are ancient universities but like many big city universities don't have a campus as such.<BR>Stirling is a much newer university founded in 1967. It is a campus university and has a very beautiful campus. St. Andrews is another ancient university. The town itself is pretty small and remote and fairly dominated by the university.<BR>Leeds is a good solid &quot;redbrick&quot; university founded in 1904 and has a good reputation.<BR>Sussex is another quite new university founded in 1961. It also has a campus.<BR>Oxford Brookes is a very new university It gained university status in 1992 although it started life as an art college in the nineteenth century. You need to remember that Oxford Brookes is not Oxford University. It is one of the &quot;new&quot; universities that were promoted from Polytechnic status. It does have a good reputation however.<BR><BR>If you have a look at the UK universities sensitive map at http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/ukinfo/uk.map.html<BR>You can see where the different Universities are in the country and you can click on the different sites to get information.<BR><BR>

To Gardyloo:<BR><BR>You and I were posting simultaneously, it seems. Thanks for your comments - - you actually DO know what my daughter's (academic) interests are (maybe overlooked my saying so): education and English - - and perhaps, specifically &quot;comparative education&quot;. The more she might have the chance to be in (a) course(s) with students from other parts of the world wanting to learn education philosphies, techniques and strategies - - the better.<BR><BR>How is Sussex (in? near to?) an interesting city? Brighton itself? I know nothing about Brighton.<BR><BR>I am not particularly worried about her ability to deal with a spectrum of &quot;distractions&quot; on or off campus, in towns big and small. She would turn 20 (in February) while she is over there. Fairly conservative (top of ROTC class, for example, and Clemson is fairly conservative in its own right), but adventurous and self-confident enough to explore and &quot;test the envelope&quot; in a responsible enough way.<BR><BR>After all, we have one other daughter in &quot;Hollywood&quot; (USC film school) - - what could there be to worry about in the UK?<BR>

&lt;&lt;To start with, in the UK universities are never referred to as schools.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Thanks, Sylvia for helping me not repeat this social &quot;miscue&quot;.<BR><BR>Seven replies in less than an hour! I am very, very grateful - - and will appreciate all others to come, all the more.<BR>

Sussex University is Ok but nothing to get very excited about. It is quite a compact campus surrounded by some quite nice greenery. The town of Brighton is very cosmopolitan. It is very busy and city like with lots of shops and pubs and night life. It does have quite a large gay community and some pubs and clubs cater specifically for that. I don't know how you feel about that.<BR><BR>The university was a flagship univesity at one time but I think it is fairly middle of the road now.<BR><BR>St Andrews is probably going to be quite difficult to get into. The applications have gone through the roof since Prince William started studying there. It is however a very good university but quite elite. It is also a little isolated but your daughter may not mind that as the area is so beautiful.<BR><BR>Oxford Brookes is not worth it. It was a former polytechnic and does not have a very goog reputation. They let in too many people with low grades and have not got the same credibility as a result of that.<BR><BR>Leeds is too big. The students are like ants all over the town.<BR><BR>If I had to make a choice out of the ones you have given I would probably give St. Andrews my best shot and if I didn't get in perhaps Sussex.<BR><BR>Have you considered Royal Holloway www.rhul.ac.uk. This university is a &quot;London&quot; one but is actually near Windsor so very convenient for Heathrow airport and the old town of Windsor with its castle.<BR><BR>Further afield good universities include Warwick, Durham, Bristol and York. These are all known a the Ivy league universities in England as they all have good reputations.<BR><BR>Good Luck<BR><BR>Buzzy

Rex, just a query - by any chance is Durham on the list? Marvelous place, excellent reputation, fun town.<BR><BR>As a former lecturer (staff or guest) in a couple of the universities mentioned, I confess I never paid attention to the linguistic propriety of &quot;university&quot; v. &quot;school.&quot; I did know the difference between &quot;university&quot; and &quot;college&quot; though. Guess I probably was embarrassing myself for years.<BR><BR>I happen to like Brighton for its combination of history, funky/tacky beach environment, climate and especially because of my vote for second best building in Britain (after Durham Cathedral) - the Royal Pavilion. I suspect it would be quite livable for your daughter, although I know zip about Sussex's program(me)s in her area.

Thanks, Buzzy - - Warwick and Bristol are in a second tier of &quot;nneed to read more about&quot;. Do you know anything about education or English at either?<BR>

This is the website that British students use to track their applications to university www.ucas.co.uk. You can do course searches on this site for every course in the country and follow the links through to get on the website for each university.<BR><BR> Another useful site is www.unofficial-guides.com. This site gives all sorts of other info. on the universities and a comments section allows you to read what other people think of them.<BR><BR>Buzzy

Rex<BR><BR>there was quite a long thread last autumn about someone trying to select a Scottish University for their offspring. There were a lot of links to the various surveys published. I'll try to top it.<BR><BR>I find my 1970s prejudices to the fore.<BR><BR>I would rule out Oxford Brookes- no academic reputation and it's not enough just to want to be in Oxford.<BR><BR>Sussex and Stirling had pretty radical reputations a generation ago and I'm having a knee jerk reaction against both.<BR><BR>Leeds, as a city, has a tremendous reputation at the moment. You might want to reconsider.<BR><BR>My niece is in 1st year at Glasgow, and although both it and Edinburgh aren't campus universities they have student campuses. personally, I think iot no bad thing to remind students that there's a real world out there.<BR><BR>In order,for arts, Edinburgh's better than Glasgow.<BR><BR>The St Andrews experience is unique. And academically very sought after. (it's also where she should go if she's husband hunting<BR><BR>For me it would be Leeds/Edinburgh equal top (tho' I would, of course choose Edinburgh)Glasgow, second and St Andrews third, with the others written off.

Of the suggestions given so far, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe Warwick belongs in the &quot;most overlooked&quot; (by us) category.<BR><BR>Can anyone comment on the Coventry area, from a tourist standpoint? (admittedly, reflecting the interests of me and my wife now, and hers, to a certain extent as well).<BR>

Rex - is your daughter going to be enrolled at the university itself or just attending classes on its campus? When I did a semester abroad, we were taught by professors of the university, we were on the university campus, but every foreign student was isolated from the university population and services. I was under the impression that most study abroad programs operated thus because of the absolute disparities in education from country to country, as well as the short time we students would actually be on campus.

Rex,<BR>I did study abroad through my college, in California to London about five years ago. I chose Middlesex University which has about six campus spread out, mostly in North London. My choices were this one and Oxford Brookes, and hardly anyone chose to go to Oxford Brookes.<BR>Middlesex was great, on the Picaddilly Line or British Rail (White Hart Lane). It is in a working class neighborhood so students get a great feel for how regular Londoners live and work and party. I would highly recommend this university. E-mail me for more info or about student living in London.<BR>Aaron

Thanks producerkoof, but as mentioned above, she is really not interested in London.<BR><BR>And to angeleno, this is a somewhat disturbing distinction you are raising, and I'll share this with her. A good one to ask the IFSA counselors, and the former participants/student contacts representing any of the universities that ultimately make up &quot;the short list&quot;.<BR>