caroltravels

Last year, we sixty-ish sisters traveled together for the first time to England and Ireland. For England, I planned everything but Ireland was as part of a tour. It was all good but it will be a long time before I take a tour again. (It was a nice tour but not exactly for us.)

This summer, I'm trying lure her away again. I love the challenge of putting a trip together and logistics is my middle name. . My sister isn't as well-traveled as I but we both like to at least know we're going to sleep at night. She feels good with a little structure is good. I like to keep it simple for her and try to make the transfers easy. Lugging luggage up stairs is so not fun. However, we're hardy, mobile and solvent, so that is all good. Rest assured, while I do the planning, my sister has plenty of space to give her opinion and preferences.

I've been to England several times but never to Europe proper. I'm starting with grandiose plans which will probably be scaled down later. I'm thinking about two weeks in early May. The basic plan is flying into Rome, head north on a train in easy stages and eventually leave out of Paris. What's in between is very open.

I'd like to see Florence but from there who knows. My sister isn't too hot on an overnight train to Paris. There was a mad moment when going up through Switzerland appealed. What are people's thoughts? While we want to see the big things. we also love things that other miss. I'd like ideas on how to section this into easy, interesting segments.

Also, I'm wondering about the charms and horrors of staying near train stations like Termini. I'm thinking about the easy in and out and traveling to the sights versus something in more central location that we have to schlep bags to. I'm a big fan of public transit and good with buses and trains.

Thanks!

greg

>>> I'd like ideas on how to section this into easy, interesting segments.
Rome to Paris is a long way by train. You will have to choose between small number of stops with long train trip days or many stops with short train trip days. Just plug in several scenarios and actually compute the travel time using a tool like www.bahn.com.

>>> staying near train stations like Termini. I'm thinking about the easy in and out and traveling to the sights versus something in more central location that we have to schlep bags to.
You are traveling in summer. If it is too hot to walk even for a short distance or raining, does being close enough help you? If you are likely to take a taxi anyway in these cases, being near the station may be all liabilities except that hotels near the stations tend to be lower priced. Do you want to choose a place to stay based on arrival and departure considerations or convenience to where you are trying to visit throughout your stay at each location? Rather than thinking binary, near the station or not, for each location, go though the list of pros and cons with each potential accommodations.

If long train rides, whether awake or sleeping, do not appeal to you, inter European flights are not that expensive. Once you make this decision, you have practically any two locations in the continent you can connect.

WillTravel

If you want to do Rome to Paris by train, then I suggest something like this, assuming you have a leisurely schedule:
Rome to Milano (a few nights in Milano)
Milano to Torino (a night or two in Torino)
Torino to Lyon (a few nights in Lyon)
Lyon to Paris (as many nights as you can in Paris)

You can get very cheap tickets if you book well in advance, although they are nonrefundable. Do this for the Lyon to Paris, Torino to Lyon, and Rome to Milano tickets at least.

sassy27

Regarding Termini, I have been to Rome 3 times twice in the last year and found my go to hotel in Rome on my second trip. I make it a habit to always stay near a train station when I travel. I honestly didn't like staying on the southside but rather the northwest at the Metropole. It's much quieter but still close to the station.

Are you planning stopping in Florence on Milan? If so I can't recommend the places I stayed as I didn't care for them but staying by Santa Maria Novella is an easy walk from the train station.

I flew out of Pisa but with only 2 weeks, maybe flying out of Italy would be better than the train. I at one time was going to fly to Rome, head to Florence then to Milan where a friend was going to pick me up and take me to Geneva. She was living there at the time but I never went. Getting to Paris from Geneva is easy according to my friend so maybe that would be a good train route with a stop in Switzerland then Paris.

5alive

Greg, the OP said she hopes to go for two weeks in early May. I would not call that summer. That is a good time to travel.

OP, two weeks is not very long. You would find more than enough great things to see and do on an all Italy trip or an all France trip.

If you'd rather do the sampler approach, I would recommend you fly between Rome and Paris. Just to give you an idea of sizes, all from Wiki:

• Texas 263,000 square miles
• California 168,000 sq mi
• Italy 301,000 sq mi
• France 247,000 sq mi

Get some Rick Steves videos at the library or watch them on Youtube to help you determine your choices. Or pick up a few guidebooks. Read about places on the Fodors Destinations tabs on this website.

In regards to Switzerland, is it a particular desire to see Switzerland? Or are you trying to avoid an all-city vacation? Both Italy and France have some remarkable scenery, charming towns, castles and monasteries.

swandav2000

Hi caroltravels,

Wow, lucky you to get to travel with your sister!

Some thoughts --

Train travel in France or Italy will probably mean sticking to cities or larger towns, as villages and smaller places are not well integrated to the rail/bus network.

Having said that, I have spent time in areas in France and Italy where I was advised "You HAVE to get a car to enjoy it..." and did not get a car and did enjoy it. But I had to use small-group tours to see some things I wanted to see.

Switzerland has perhaps the very best rail/bus system in Europe, and Germany might be second best. Almost all of the villages and towns and sights are integrated to the network (I've lived in a small town in Germany for 10 years, and I've travelled a lot in Switzerland since around 1996).

You can use a hub-and-spoke system to arrange your days: spend nights in one place and then do day-trips out to nearby areas or sights. I usually limit my excursions to a 2h journey each way.

I usually get a hotel in the middle of town and take a taxi when arriving or departing with suitcases. During the stay, it's easy to walk to get around or take a bus or tram.

Hope to hear more as you firm up your plans! Have fun as you plan!

s

jacooper

I love Switzerland and you could do the Bernina Express from Tirano to Chur. In May 2013 we stayed in Milan one night before taking a train to Tirano. The scenery from the Bernina Express was incredible, and we then stayed in Switzerland for six nights before heading to France.

If you don’t have that much time you could just stay one night in Chur before taking a train to Paris. I agree with your sister that overnight trains are awful.

swandav2000

Well, I adore night trains and have taken them often. In fact, my first overnight train was with my sister in 1968 -- she was 15 and I was 13 -- from Switzerland to Spain. And it was my preferred way to travel to Paris (get on the train in Munich, sleep, wake up in Paris), but it's been discontinued for several years.

However, because of my old bladder, I have to splurge and get a private compartment with its own toilet, so it is more comfortable and more private. I love it! Make sure you have some gourmet snacks and maybe some wine, then undress, turn off the lights, open the curtains, and watch the world slip by your window. You feel like you're in a 1940s movie!

Have fun!

s

Traveler_Nick

The problem with night trains is they're no longer competitive or needed. You likely can find a flight from Rome to Paris for less than €50. That means the train will be more expensive even if you find a cheap train ticket. At the same time the normal day trains now travel at 300km/h that makes travel time less than it used to be.

The less those trains get used the less they get updated. Search for recent reviews of the Italy/Paris night train. They can be quite grim.

Two weeks and you've got Rome and Florence already. That's likely at least one week. If you add a day trip or two from Florence and it might be more. Depending on interests you can pick from other Italian cities or fly to Paris.

ToujoursVoyager

Italy-Switzerland-Paris is very ambitious for 2 weeks (can you make it longer?) using trains only, but you could:

Land in Rome
Train to Florence
Train to Lauterbrunnen ( Wengen/Mürren) Switzerland
Train to Paris (this will take 7 hours)
Fly home

PalenQ

well for oodles of good stuff on trains check www.seat61.com - great tips on booking your own discounted or full-fare tickets online - you can save a ton by booking weeks/months early- general info like 1st v 2nd cl - www.ricksteves.com and BETS-European Rail Experts. Yes night trains ain't for everyone -especially light sleepers but if you get a private double it is really comfy - bring any food or drink aboard and chill. www.thello.com for booking and info on Venice-Paris overnight trains.

thursdaysd

How many nights on the ground?

I would modify WillTravel's itinerary:

Rome to Turin (I stayed in Townhouse 70)
Turin to Annecy and/or Chamonix via Lyon (May could be too early for Chamonix?)
Annecy to Paris

Depending on how much time you actually have, you could put Florence or Milan between Rome and Turin, but Venice would be even better.

PalenQ

The problem with night trains is they're no longer competitive or needed. You likely can find a flight from Rome to Paris for less than €50. That means the train will be more expensive even if you find a cheap train ticket.>

But on night trains you save money on a hotel for that night and daytime travel time - flying costs should also include cost getting to airport and in - cheap flights may charge for baggage, etc. Yes overnight sleeper trains are dying out - but it is a unique experience and these trains are not cattle cars as some say but in private compartments have nice beds and a wash basin.

Southam

Seat 61 is essential for those who travel by rail. For comparison, www.skyscanner.com is good on Europe's short-hop budget flights.
Night trains appeal to enthusiasts (and Seat 61 is certainly that.) But those who want to see the countryside won't do it on a dark night while trying to go to sleep. I've had little experience, partly because the routes often seem to require changing trains in the middle of the night.

janisj

>>But on night trains you save money on a hotel for that night <<

I often see that claim - but not really. One doesn't get a compartment for just the cost of the train ticket. If one books a private compartment one pays quite a bit extra for it.

historytraveler

I agree that overnight trains can be sketchy. In one word...toilets. As already stated you’re not going to see anything and if a light sleeper the stops can be frustrating. It may well be a unique experience but, IMO and IME, not a especially good one. Much better to stop, get a hotel room, have a nice dinner, explore the town a bit and get a good nights sleep.

PalenQ

Yes night trains not for everyone but quite a few actually like them - I took hundreds of them in six-person couchettes and loved them - and a private compartment is much nicer. But as janis says and I should have clarified - private compartments can be very costly - so if taking Venice-Paris night train you could save tons on a hotel by taking their 49 euro fares you could get but then that is a 6-person couchette I think - not for all for sure - in with strangers - both sexes usually and often noise from others going in and out at night to the loo, etc.

kerouac

I always loved night trains, too, but I don't think the idea corresponds to what most modern travellers want. In France, for example, there are almost no night trains left, mostly because the TGV makes travel so fast but also because demand has plummeted. The remaining night trains always run at a deficit.

A first class sleeping car (with private toilet) is still a delightful luxury, but they are few and far between anywhere in Europe and in most of the world, as well as being quite expensive (far more than a hotel room) The last time I enjoyed such a thing was at least 20 years ago in Kenya, on the train from Nairobi to Mombasa. Waking up and seeing giraffes out the window was priceless.

suze

I did a 3 week trip once that started in Geneva (staying in Vevey). Then train to Venice. then train to Paris. Flew home from Paris. It was a wonderful time and didn't take all that much extensive advanced planning to pull it off.

kerouac

I once made a relatively lengthy trip using just www.hotels.com to book the next town on my road trip, often no more than 6 hours ahead of time. It worked out brilliantly.