Should I skip Florence? Venice? Tuscany?

Old Mar 7th, 2023, 01:46 PM
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Should I skip Florence? Venice? Tuscany?

I am finishing up my travel plans for this June.

Generally I believe to really experience a city and travel comfortably you have to spend at least 5 days, if not 7; in the place you are visiting.

This is my first trip to Europe, and I am trying to figure out exact points where me and my party may be overwhelmed by too much to see, and may need time to rest, but also determine when we may become to bored and need more around us. That's a very hard thing to gauge.

I also am trying to work on a more limited budget and not spend too much money. My stays outside of Rome and in the center of Paris are free; and my paid stays are pretty low cost so far; coming in at less than $60 per night.

My current calendar looks as follows:

Madrid: June 2-9
Granada: June 9-13
Malaga: June 14
Paris: June 15-22
Castelnuovo di Porto: June 22 - 29

I am trying to determine where I should go afterwards, or if I should end things.

Between Madrid/Granada/Paris & Rome I think my group may just grow sick of seeing historical exhibits and buildings. We're talking tours through El Prado, El Palacio Nacional, El Alhambra, Le Louvre, d'Orsay, l'Orangerie, l'Arc de Triomphe, Tour Eiffel, Versailles, The Colosseum, Pantheon, Trevi Fountain, St Peter's Basilica, and Sistine Chapel, to name a few.

Do I really need to see more Churches and Museums?

My original plans were Florence then on to Venice with a short stop in Bologna and Modena. But maybe I should only see one of those places?

Maybe I should end things at Cinque Terre or at the Amalfi Coast or the Italian Alps or something like that.

What do you think would be the best option?

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Old Mar 7th, 2023, 03:34 PM
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I have been to all the places you mentioned and loved them all. That said I am taking your last sentance as a stand alone and taking it to mean your whole trip, maybe not just the last portion of your trip as to where to go after your inital cities are visited.

There is quite a bit of planning info that is missing to me but basically your trip is like climbing up and down the Matterhorn when you should be going up once and coming down once. You are starting out down in Spain going up to Paris and coming down again to Rome.

If it were me I would at least start in Paris down to Spain and across to Italy. Or Spain then Italy and leaving from Paris.

If none of that is doable or changeable, I've been to Venice multiple times and really unique, great to wander and can go to the beach, Burano and Murano even Verona or Vicenza while there. Spent a month in Florence, so adore that city but in a similar vein as your other cities--churches, museums, etc; Was in Bologna in November and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Bologna. very walkable and wonderful but still in the realm of the others and I say that in a very broad sense. CT and Amalfi, vistas, views, water, beach, the sea, colorful and great journeys between places.

Any of these places require you to probably backtrack to fly out of Rome unless you could do Naples. But again, I don't know where your home is. Good luck and hopefully you can provide some answers and more posters will chime in.
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Old Mar 7th, 2023, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jan47ete
I have been to all the places you mentioned and loved them all. That said I am taking your last sentance as a stand alone and taking it to mean your whole trip, maybe not just the last portion of your trip as to where to go after your inital cities are visited.

There is quite a bit of planning info that is missing to me but basically your trip is like climbing up and down the Matterhorn when you should be going up once and coming down once. You are starting out down in Spain going up to Paris and coming down again to Rome.

If it were me I would at least start in Paris down to Spain and across to Italy. Or Spain then Italy and leaving from Paris.

If none of that is doable or changeable, I've been to Venice multiple times and really unique, great to wander and can go to the beach, Burano and Murano even Verona or Vicenza while there. Spent a month in Florence, so adore that city but in a similar vein as your other cities--churches, museums, etc; Was in Bologna in November and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Bologna. very walkable and wonderful but still in the realm of the others and I say that in a very broad sense. CT and Amalfi, vistas, views, water, beach, the sea, colorful and great journeys between places.

Any of these places require you to probably backtrack to fly out of Rome unless you could do Naples. But again, I don't know where your home is. Good luck and hopefully you can provide some answers and more posters will chime in.
Oh yes I realize that going to Paris last, or starting in Paris would be smarter.

I'm using points for my flights. Most of my flights are booked with Avios. I get Round-Trip coach to Madrid from where I live for about 40k miles. A round-trip flight to France would cost significantly more miles. Closer to 65k.

My stays in Paris are through HomeExchange. I've hosted in the past. I have a lot of GuestPoints. Originally I was going to go to Rome and then Paris, but the availability on my Rome Exchange flipped to a week later and a spot at a really nice home right off of Rue Greneta opened up for me for a week's time and the owner approved me in less than a hour so that really set my schedule in stone, or else I'd go from Paris down to Rome or Rome up to Paris.

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Old Mar 7th, 2023, 04:56 PM
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Venice. Everything by boat. Early morning mist making buildings seemingly rising from the canal. Sigh.
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Old Mar 7th, 2023, 05:07 PM
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While it is nice to have a lot of time in a city, you may not always be there for the city so much as one or two particular sights and done. Certainly, some cities have so much to see, one could spend weeks and others for only a day, depending on your interests. Without knowing the thoughts, interests, experiences, etc. of the group, it is impossible to give what, IMHO is good specific advice about your choices, so first, some questions, then a few thoughts.
1. People in the group: This is of utmost importance. How many? Ages? Any traveled to Europe before? Traveled to other places? Major interests in Art, History, etc?
2. Are flights already booked? Are hotels already booked? If much is already set in stone, than much possible good advice is moot.
3. Other transportation? Trains? Car rentals? Flights? etc? How are you getting from Spain to Paris, etc?
4. Why did you select Madrid for so many days over Seville? Are you doing day trips to Toledo and/or Segovia? I like Madrid, but that seems a lot! Several days in Granada and no time in Cordoba?

5. You have listed days in places, at least twice putting the same day in two different places. While you may start in one and end up in the other, it is logistically not feasible to plan as if each has a day. Always, unless it is a day trip, one day to one place.
6. I prefer to account for travel days and days in places separately, but others prefer to list nights in a place, being aware that 2 nights are required to have 1 full day in a place. Sightseeing is easier to organize and accomplish with full days than with partial days.
7. Your itinerary is probably just a quick work up, but to actually be of best help, we need to know if days are also travel days. Arrival and departure days never count as time in a place.
8. Lodging. Make sure that cheap lodging is not so far away from sights you want to see that you spend more on transportation and end up wasting time, thus costing more than lodging in a better location would have been. Free sometimes comes at a cost.
9. You mention a lot of tours. Do some research. You do not need tours to things like Trevi Fountain. Some tours are fine with a good DIY guide book. If you know anything about Art, look through info on what is in the museum, read about it and look for yourself. Personally, I never take museum tours, but some like them. There are also some very good museum guide books. Book tickets ahead if you can.
10. There are not really that many churches and museums on your list and they are quite different. It is not a matter of doing one more. It is more a matter of being selective, seeing what you and your group like.

Suggestion for a laying out trip (there are many possibilities and other, shorter ways, but allow for travel days). I added Seville and Cordoba, just for consideration.

June 2, Arrive Madrid, settle in, walk in Retiro Park?
June 3, 4, 5, Madrid, Palace (one easy morning), Prado (one morning or afternoon), one day trip, other museums, etc.
June 6, Travel to Seville by train (1/2 day travel) afternoon in Seville
June 7, 8, 9, Seville (day trip to Cordoba) You could also stay a couple of nights there.
June 10, Travel to Granada (At least 1/2 day of travel), late afternoon & evening in Granada
June 11 & 12, Granada. Make sure you have tickets booked well ahead for the Alhambra. They sell out. See it both during the day and at night. Great place for music and hiking.
June 13, Travel to?
June 14, ? .
June 16, Travel to?
Etc., etc.

You could also just list it like this: the dates of nights in a place and number of full days there.
Most days of travel will eat up approximately 1/2 day on average (sometimes a bit less, often a lot more), so do not count them as days in place.
June 2-8, Madrid, 7 nights, 6 full days
June 9-12, Granada, 4 nights, 3 full days
etc.
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Old Mar 7th, 2023, 05:16 PM
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Just saw your flights are RT, so it is going to cost time and money to backtrack. You might not have been able to with points, but multi-citi (Not two, one way) nearly always saves money in the end. It certainly saves time.
If I understand correctly, you have to return to Madrid for your flight home? Is this the same for other members of your party?
In that case, on arrival, if you can travel on to another destination and put time in Madrid at the end, only one hotel stay there, it would be more efficient.
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Old Mar 7th, 2023, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jan47ete
I have been to all the places you mentioned and loved them all. That said I am taking your last sentance as a stand alone and taking it to mean your whole trip, maybe not just the last portion of your trip as to where to go after your inital cities are visited.

There is quite a bit of planning info that is missing to me but basically your trip is like climbing up and down the Matterhorn when you should be going up once and coming down once. You are starting out down in Spain going up to Paris and coming down again to Rome.

If it were me I would at least start in Paris down to Spain and across to Italy. Or Spain then Italy and leaving from Paris.

If none of that is doable or changeable, I've been to Venice multiple times and really unique, great to wander and can go to the beach, Burano and Murano even Verona or Vicenza while there. Spent a month in Florence, so adore that city but in a similar vein as your other cities--churches, museums, etc; Was in Bologna in November and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Bologna. very walkable and wonderful but still in the realm of the others and I say that in a very broad sense. CT and Amalfi, vistas, views, water, beach, the sea, colorful and great journeys between places.

Any of these places require you to probably backtrack to fly out of Rome unless you could do Naples. But again, I don't know where your home is. Good luck and hopefully you can provide some answers and more posters will chime in.
Originally Posted by Sassafrass
While it is nice to have a lot of time in a city, you may not always be there for the city so much as one or two particular sights and done. Certainly, .

I have a daytrack I am working on. It's not completed yet.

Fri 06/02 - Leave USA for Madrid [9 Hours]
Sat 06/03 - 10:05 AM: Arrive in Madrid, Purchase Groceries, See some basic sites, Rest from Trip
Sun 06/04 - El Prado / Plaza Mayor / Mercado San Miguel
Mon 06/05 - Palacio Real de Madrid €36-48
Tue 06/06 - PM: Gran Via
Wed 06/07 - TBD
Thur 06/08 - Travel to Granada Via Train [3 Hours], Basic Exploration,
Fri 06/09 - Alhambra
Sat 06/10 - AM: Albaicin , Capilla Real de Granada
Sun 06/11 - Sacromonte €21
Mon 06/12 - Daytrip to Cordoba
Tue 06/13 - TBD
Wed 06/14 - Trip to Malaga/Basic Siteseeing Malaga
Thur 06/15 - Flight to Paris Afternoon Easyjet [2.5 Hours] / Basic Site-seeing in Paris (Explore Passages/Rue Montorguiel as time permits or Montmarte)
Fri 06/16 - Musée d'Orsay / Palais Royal / Possibly Galerie Vivienne or l'Orangerie
Sat 06/17 - Sainte-Chapelle / La Grande Epicerie / Luxembourg Gardens / Pantheon (As time permits)
Sun 06/18 - Hôtel des Invalides/ Tour Eiffel / Arc De Triomph / Possible concert at Palais Garnier (as time permits)
Mon 06/19 - Louvre
Tues 06/20 - Versailles
Wed 06/21 - If we want more museums Centre Pompidou or the Monet/ If not just explore and prepare to leave. We could also do a rest day on another day and use this last day to fill missed views.
Thur 06/22 - Flight to Rome
Fri 06/23
- Rest Day Possibly if not day before
Sat 06/24 - Piazza De Popolo & Surroundings / Spanish Steps/ Trevi Fountain / Pantheon / Altare della Patria/ Campidoglio / Roman Forum
Sun 06/25 - Colosseum / Capitoline Museums/ Basilica Papale di Santa Maria Maggiore / Basilica di San Giovanni in Laterano (as time allows)
Mon 06/26 - Vatican
Tues 06/27 - Trastesvere / Testaccio / Jewish Quarter
Wed 06/28 - Borghese Gallery and Museum (as time permits)
Thur 06/29 - Train to Florence? Venice? Cinque Terra?
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Old Mar 7th, 2023, 09:25 PM
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Malaga seems like a bit of an outlier. I would likely skip this in order to save time and travel costs.
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Old Mar 7th, 2023, 09:58 PM
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Same sorta questions as Sassafras plus why Castelnuovo di Porto? I am no Italy expert but have visited the country about 10 times and had never heard of it. It appears to be 25 kilometers north of Rome. Hopefully you are not using this as a base to explore Roma.
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Old Mar 7th, 2023, 10:13 PM
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Why are you spending four days in Granada but zero in Seville?

Honestly if you want to see churches just go to Rome and drop the rest of Europe. Only half joking. Multiple papal basilicas mean the "minor" churches are more impressive than some major cathedrals around the world.

Venice is special and not like anything else.

If you're done with museums than sure you can drop Florence. Pisa tends to be cheaper than Florence. You could even do a daytrip to Florence from Pisa easily enough.
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Old Mar 8th, 2023, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mjs
Same sorta questions as Sassafras plus why Castelnuovo di Porto? I am no Italy expert but have visited the country about 10 times and had never heard of it. It appears to be 25 kilometers north of Rome. Hopefully you are not using this as a base to explore Roma.
Following personal interests can be a really great theme on a trip, but it may make the sights you choose seem rather odd unless you inform people offering advice. Do you have a theme in mind? Based on choices in Paris and places like Castelnuovo di Porto, do you have a particular interest in military history?
More research is necessary for putting sights together. Check maps to see which things are close together. Also check information on open days, times, tickets, etc.
Example: The Borghese, as I recall, is timed for only two hours. They are precise. Get there plenty early to get tickets and allow time to check in bags, purses, etc. If you run late, they will give your ticket away, but most of that day is actually free, a nice day to do a self guided walk of Rome. Many sights you list, like Spanish steps, are just walk-by. You mention rest days, but many of your days are half empty anyway, unless you are older and slower like me or someone going with you needs more time.

On the day you go to the Prado, how much time can you spend in one museum? I prefer to choose several things to see, include some wandering and count on about four hours. That takes a morning or afternoon, rest of day free. You could easily see the Palace, have lunch and see the Prado the same day. If you love art, you can add another museum or a return for few more hours in the Prado.
Some churches you see for history, others for architecture, others for sculpture and paintings, others just for beauty, some even for your religious faith.
Cordoba works as a day trip from Seville, but is not a good day trip from Granada.
Like KTtravel, I too would drop Malaga.

What exact days must you be in Paris and Rome? What exact day must you depart Madrid. Plug those into your layout, than figure out the rest. Personally, IMHO, you are going to Spain (twice, arriving and departing Madrid, twice) and not seeing much there. You saved money by doing RT there. Think about making it count for more sightseeing.
Of course you, yourself, need an idea of what and when you will see individual things, but for an itinerary and to get travel advice, keep your layout simple to start.
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Old Mar 8th, 2023, 12:09 AM
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BTW, I think it is wonderful that you want to thoroughly explore Rome and Granada. Rome is, of course, a sublime city. Granada is, IMHO, a greatly overlooked city, wonderful for just walking and exploring.
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Old Mar 8th, 2023, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by KTtravel
Malaga seems like a bit of an outlier. I would likely skip this in order to save time and travel costs.
Haha I do everything for a reason and I don't have normal travel "costs."

Malaga is a redemption of a Hilton Garden Inn for 20k Hilton points that comes up free. I'm flying out of Malaga to Paris generally because it has more flights to Paris than Granada and they are cheaper, and it's only about an hour and a half away from Granada.

Visiting Malaga doesn't end up costing me anything. In fact it saves me money because I don't have to spend money on another night in Granada where I am paying a hotel. Just churning things. Hell most of my Churning friends don't spend a single cent on hotels because they book their entire trips in points.
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Old Mar 8th, 2023, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mjs
Same sorta questions as Sassafras plus why Castelnuovo di Porto? I am no Italy expert but have visited the country about 10 times and had never heard of it. It appears to be 25 kilometers north of Rome. Hopefully you are not using this as a base to explore Roma.
I'm trying. Castelnuovo di Porto is the place of my Home Exchange in Rome. Which means my stay is really basically free in that location. I mean sure it's not an ideal base for visiting Rome, but it has a public train that will take you straight to the Flaminio station in about 40-50 minutes for €1.50.

Considering a similiar hotel room in Rome would cost me a minimum of €700-900 euros I'm more than happy with that. Not to mention the place i'm staying is a 2 bedroom apartment with full kitchen, which would probably run even more. The place looks like a charming village. Far removed from the hustle and bustle of Rome. If I only go into Rome 2 or 3 days and spend the rest of my time there I'll be more than happy.

Originally Posted by Traveler_Nick
Why are you spending four days in Granada but zero in Seville?

Honestly if you want to see churches just go to Rome and drop the rest of Europe. Only half joking. Multiple papal basilicas mean the "minor" churches are more impressive than some major cathedrals around the world.

Venice is special and not like anything else.

If you're done with museums than sure you can drop Florence. Pisa tends to be cheaper than Florence. You could even do a daytrip to Florence from Pisa easily enough.
Moving Around = Money + Exertion

Me = Trying to save money by not moving around that much + trying to save energy for actually seeing sites and not traveling

Overall Granada is interesting enough, and cheap enough, for a weeks visit. My 2 room apartment for 6 days there is costing me $280.

Beyond that I'm working some of the days I'll be in Europe so that I can spend more time in general there. I'll probably not work in Paris because the breadth of things to see just don't justify it. But I'll definetly be working some days in Granad and Madrid and possibly Rome.

I'm also traveling with my wife and mother-in-law so I expect there to be some days where they're off doing things by themselves.


Originally Posted by Traveler_Nick
Do you have a theme in mind?
Not particularly, see historic museums and sites in the major cities of Europe. Do it as cheaply as possibly.

I'm considering ending in the Dolemites.
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Old Mar 8th, 2023, 08:07 AM
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I think you should verify the public transport access for the home exchange in Castelnuovo di Porto. If the home exchange owners have advised that you can get to Rome in less than an hour on a single train, they need to give you details about how to do that, the distance of the station from the house, the frequency of service and how late in the day you can make the return trip, how you'd get back to the house from the station in the evening, etc. I can't find any way to do it in under an hour. Would you rent a car to reach CdP from FCO or Ciampino? While I don't recommend driving into Rome every day, the drive between CdP and central Rome would take at least an hour each way. CdP is definitely not a place I'd choose if the point is to explore Rome... even if the lodging is free.

You're prioritizing the budget, which I understand, but I think there's a point where being a slave to the budget robs some of the enjoyment of being in a place. I think you're skipping over the general hassle of traveling longer distances, through airports and/or train stations, relying on public transportation, sometimes with luggage, etc., all the while limited by timetables and flight schedules. With a more modest budget, I'd rather develop an itinerary that covers less geography... probably in just one country.

I don't think ending in the Dolomites or the Cinque Terre or the Amalfi Coast would be easy or cheap, but I guess that depends on your definitions of those terms. You need to investigate the logistics of reaching each of these areas from your last destination. Also search lodging availability everywhere, because you're probably late in finding budget-friendly options in all three places.

Last edited by Jean; Mar 8th, 2023 at 08:12 AM.
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Old Mar 8th, 2023, 09:48 AM
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[QUOTE=elmaji;17444576]I'm trying. Castelnuovo di Porto is the place of my Home Exchange in Rome. Which means my stay is really basically free in that location. I mean sure it's not an ideal base for visiting Rome, but it has a public train that will take you straight to the Flaminio station in about 40-50 minutes for €1.50.

[You are willing to spend two to three hours each day traveling back and forth?]

”Considering a similiar hotel room in Rome would cost me a minimum of €700-900 euros I'm more than happy with that. Not to mention the place i'm staying is a 2 bedroom apartment with full kitchen, which would probably run even more. The place looks like a charming village. Far removed from the hustle and bustle of Rome. If I only go into Rome 2 or 3 days and spend the rest of my time there I'll be more than happy.”

[It may be quite charming and relaxing. I bet there are places in Rome cheaper than you think though. ]



Moving Around = Money + Exertion

Me = Trying to save money by not moving around that much + trying to save energy for actually seeing sites and not traveling

[but you are moving around, a lot, even daily].



Last edited by Sassafrass; Mar 8th, 2023 at 09:58 AM.
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Old Mar 8th, 2023, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jean
I think you should verify the public transport access for the home exchange in Castelnuovo di Porto. If the home exchange owners have advised that you can get to Rome in less than an hour on a single train, they need to give you details about how to do that, the distance of the station from the house, the frequency of service and how late in the day you can make the return trip, how you'd get back to the house from the station in the evening, etc. I can't find any way to do it in under an hour. Would you rent a car to reach CdP from FCO or Ciampino? While I don't recommend driving into Rome every day, the drive between CdP and central Rome would take at least an hour each way. CdP is definitely not a place I'd choose if the point is to explore Rome... even if the lodging is free.

You're prioritizing the budget, which I understand, but I think there's a point where being a slave to the budget robs some of the enjoyment of being in a place. I think you're skipping over the general hassle of traveling longer distances, through airports and/or train stations, relying on public transportation, sometimes with luggage, etc., all the while limited by timetables and flight schedules. With a more modest budget, I'd rather develop an itinerary that covers less geography... probably in just one country.

I don't think ending in the Dolomites or the Cinque Terre or the Amalfi Coast would be easy or cheap, but I guess that depends on your definitions of those terms. You need to investigate the logistics of reaching each of these areas from your last destination. Also search lodging availability everywhere, because you're probably late in finding budget-friendly options in all three places.
All of the above advice is spot on.
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Old Mar 8th, 2023, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Jean
I think you should verify the public transport access for the home exchange in Castelnuovo di Porto. If the home exchange owners have advised that you can get to Rome in less than an hour on a single train, they need to give you details about how to do that, the distance of the station from the house, the frequency of service and how late in the day you can make the return trip, how you'd get back to the house from the station in the evening, etc. I can't find any way to do it in under an hour. Would you rent a car to reach CdP from FCO or Ciampino? While I don't recommend driving into Rome every day, the drive between CdP and central Rome would take at least an hour each way. CdP is definitely not a place I'd choose if the point is to explore Rome... even if the lodging is free.

You're prioritizing the budget, which I understand, but I think there's a point where being a slave to the budget robs some of the enjoyment of being in a place. I think you're skipping over the general hassle of traveling longer distances, through airports and/or train stations, relying on public transportation, sometimes with luggage, etc., all the while limited by timetables and flight schedules. With a more modest budget, I'd rather develop an itinerary that covers less geography... probably in just one country.

I don't think ending in the Dolomites or the Cinque Terre or the Amalfi Coast would be easy or cheap, but I guess that depends on your definitions of those terms. You need to investigate the logistics of reaching each of these areas from your last destination. Also search lodging availability everywhere, because you're probably late in finding budget-friendly options in all three places.
Sorry Jean, it's something on their Home Exchange profile and I've looked into .

You take the regional train that goes from Viterbo to Rome and Rome to Viterbo. It passes by a station clearly visible in the google maps of the city. I can not link to it for some reason the forum will not let me. I believe it's administered by ASTRAL or COTRAL. It's kind of confusing I see reports of different companies in different places. I haven't been able to get an exact schedule of the route from those sites but I'm sure as I get closer I can contact the owner to get that information. It is March and we're talking about June. There is also a bus. Some people recommend the bus more than the train. There are also people who rent a car and drive to the Montebello station and park and take that train instead. Also had some people who had stayed previously drive down to a parking entrance to the metro station Jonio and take that.

I feel you have this very American high-intensity view of things. Everything must be perfect. The place I stay in has to be the exact center. Sure, that's cool. But a chill Italian mountainside midevil city 40 minutes to an hour away from the center of Rome isn't that bad in my mind. Hell it may be even more authentically Italian than the touristy center of Rome itself. I'm not going to rush to get everything done. I'm going to enjoy things even if it's not the most convient in the world. Everything doesn't need to be know. The world and your experience in it is an adventure. The place isn't exactly devoid of interesting things. It's probably kind of like visiting Montelpuciano instead of Siena. Paris and Madrid will be large cities and there's a very stressful nature to large cities. Being just outside of one in an area you can relax in in and of itself is pretty cool.

The same thing also takes me to Granada. I'm hoping it's not extremely packed but the whole architecture and layout to that city speaks to me "Mid-sized, chill town, with very interesting energy and culture."

I mean this is my first time coming to Europe. I want to come back again. Hell, If I end up liking it I may consider moving there. Spain has just released a very attractive Digital Nomad Visa that would allow me to get citizenship in two years through my ancestry and I make enough to live in nearly any city on earth and I can work pretty much anywhere.
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Old Mar 8th, 2023, 05:33 PM
  #19  
 
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I'm afraid you won't find the reality of navigating public transportation in Italy quite as simple (or as accurate) as Google Maps implies.

I don't know how many trips I've made to Italy over the past 50 years... dozens, I'm sure. I'm not high-intensity (whatever that means). In fact, your proposed itinerary is too intense for me... all those airport transfers... ugh.

But it's your trip, so you get to do it anyway you like. I wish you luck and an enjoyable trip.

BTW, it's Medieval.
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Old Mar 8th, 2023, 05:54 PM
  #20  
 
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Does your Wife or Mother in Law have any questions for us about the things they are interested in doing on the trip?
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