Linda

No, this is not that Germany. They have taken responsibility and action so that such tragedy never will happen again. There were Germans who risked everything for their Jewish friends. If all countries who have some terrible things in their past would be as mature as the Germans, this world would be a better place. The Germans born after the war are horrified by what occured (people age 56 and younger so vast majority of Germany). <BR>If you went to Dresden and talked with the people, you would hear some animosity about having their town devastated for no reason right before the end of the war. <BR>I talked with men on the train who had been in prisoner of war camps in the US and one who was in a &quot;baby camp&quot; (end of war and all the German &quot;soldiers&quot; were under 15). He remembered getting chocolate bars and, unfortunately, cigarettes from the GI's. All 3 of them had good things to say about their treatment. They were not bad men or monsters. Another told me about his first encounter, as a young boy, with an American GI. He was hiding in his bed because the Americans were coming and he peeked out and saw a big African American soldier staring at him--scared him because he had never seen a black man before--and the soldier gave him candy. His whole impression of the US changed that day because a soldier saw a child, not an enemy. Bless that soldier because he, too, saw the devastation but realized that the child was not guilty.

Cat

Good or bad, Germany has a lot of history. Different people react to the tragedies in different ways. If someone does not wish to hear about Germany, then respect their wishes. However, do not let your friends stop you from taking the vacations you want.<BR><BR>Germany has a lot more to offer than just War history.

mpprh

Hi<BR><BR>Should I feel guilty about visiting :<BR>Iraq<BR>Grenada<BR>Vietnam<BR>Korea<BR>Japan< BR><BR>???????????<BR><BR><BR>

Joyce

If persecution against Jews is a criteria for avoiding countries, you will never visit Europe.<BR><BR>Did you ever hear of the Inquisition? The Spanish government routinely tortured Jews who refused to convert to Christiantiy. Eventually the Spanish government passed a law forcing all remaining Jews to leave the country. <BR><BR>France has a long history of mass killings of Jews, pogroms that were encouraged by the French government. Even England had occasional pogroms, and for a long time had laws that officially discrimated against Jews.<BR><BR>The only reason to avoid Germany would be to encourage a change in government policies. However, the current government is already very strongly against all forms of anti-Semitism.

Eric

The Germans are not as bad as the Americans. In the South, they still wave the Confederate flag. Some do it blindly, others do it as a code word to show they are anti-Black. They claim it is &quot;Southern heritage.&quot; Germans do not wave Nazi flags and claim &quot;German heritage.&quot;<BR><BR>You see, American Southerners are the real war criminals, defiant and unrepentant.

Maira

It's been five years since I posted the original question and a lot has certainly happened since. To some posters above, this was a serious concern, I was not &quot;trolling&quot;, as I have no need to do that. I did returned to Germany and brought back great memories that was happy to share when asked. Planning a return trip in May to visit some German friends we made. Thanks for answering to those who care to offer a helpful view.

xox

It is nice to know that you have a social concience. FYI BBC International has just had an article regarding a large number of Jews living in Isreal getting paperwork in order to move back to Germany in case things get bad in the middle east. Some of these Jews were originally from Germany. I thought that was interesting.

mm

Equating the German Final Solution with ANY event or action taken in the US against the Native Americans or African-Americans is a display of ignorance. There is no comparison. The only modern events/actions that come close are the Japanese treatment of POW's and the people of China and Korea, and the Soviet's programs of planned starvation of the rural populations.<BR><BR>I've traveled to Germany and applaud their continuing attempts to distance themselves from the NAZI past. On the other hand, I will not travel to Japan as they continue to ignore the things they did which were at least as bad as, if not worse, than what the NAZI's did.<BR><BR>MM

xxx

Eric, in the US I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of people are very sorry for the sins of slavery. It's not a chapter in American History that most of us are proud of. I'm quite sure the same could be said about Germans in regard to killing Jews.However, there are plenty of Americans who are not sorry about slavery, just like there are Germans who are not sorry for killing Jews. You are really kidding yourself if you see only Americans as unrepentant.

uncle sam

&quot;You see, American Southerners are the real war criminals, defiant and unrepentant&quot;<BR><BR>Well Eric, I'd suggest you learn a bit more about the US before you make such ludicrous statements. <BR><BR>I'd suggest that you'll find more racist tendencies in Boston and the NE than in the South. <BR><BR>My wife and I both have Southern accents and of course we've lived in the South all of our lives except for an intolerable five years in Jersey.<BR><BR>We were in Boston visiting. When we got a taxi cab the driver immediately told us and I quote, &quot;You'll notice that you won't see many niggers here in Boston, we moved them all out of here a few years ago. There won't be many here to upset you, so enjoy your stay.&quot;<BR><BR>Now none of my friends in the South speak like that and we certainly have a number of Black and Asian and other ethnic neighbors.<BR><BR>However, Eric, just so you'll know...I have never owned any slaves, no one in my family owned any slaves and I do not feel any guilt, not even one ounce because I've not done anything wrong!<BR><BR>US

Bobbi

I'm German descended Jew. I have visited Germany and wil continue to visit Germany. Regardless of what happened it's still where my family is from. Where a lot of our history is. I can't possibly blame the current generation &quot;for the sins of the father&quot;.<BR><BR>Besides, traveling there raises awareness of what happened, and maybe will prevent it from happening again.

Mary Ann

This is a terrific discussion. We have been to Germany several times, including to Dachau. I agree that the way to understand and prevent what has happened is by seeing and reading about the history. I use to wonder prior to WWII why so many people from France and the German Empire left Europe. After doing my own genealogy which goes back to Germany of 1871 and doing a little research on the web I understand. The amount of war, hunger and devastation was incredible even prior to WWI and II. There is so much history there that resulted in people coming to the USA that we all need to understand and appreciate what we have today. First hand visits are the best.<BR>Safe traveling to all.

Carol

Oh, pleeeeeze, Eric. The British and the New Englanders were the ones who took their ships to get the soon-to-be slaves from their native lands. Have you even been to the South? I must agree with one of the earlier posters, there is more prejudice in the north than in the south now--not to say it doesn't still exist but we have paid much for our sins. The Voting Rights Act should be expanded to cover the entire US.

doc

I think Bobbi makes alot of sense. I have a good friend who is a holocaust survivor and has taken many groups to concentration camps to learn more about the history. I also feel that it is not right to equate americans with slavery as it is not right to equate the german population with the nazi party or hitler. That is something the germans are not proud of.

cmt

I was doing an odd search and this turend up. It's an interesting OLD discussion tht remained mostly civil.

RufusTFirefly

Japanese-Canadians, too.

Japanese Canadian Internment

Introduction
&quot;...this government notice, from the newly established British Columbia Security Commission, announced a policy of wholesale evacuation of Japanese Canadians from the so-called coastal defense zone...&quot;
Keeping British Columbia White, Stephen M. Beckow

The evacuation of the Japanese Canadians, or Nikkei Kanadajin, from the Pacific Coast in the early months of 1942 was the greatest mass movement in the history of Canada. By the eve of Pearl Harbor, nearly 23,000 people of Japanese descent made their home in Canada, principally in British Columbia. Three-quarters of that number were naturalized or native-born citizens. The Nikkei were foresters and fishermen, miners and merchants. Except for the industrialists who profited from cheap Asian labor, much of white British Columbia regarded the Japanese Canadians with suspicion, if not rabid hostility. Over the years the Nikkei had been targets of unremitting discrimination and occasional violence.

When war was declared on Japan in December 1941, the cry to rid British Columbia of the Japanese menace was taken up in many quarters, including provincial and municipal government halls and influential local newspapers. Tensions mounted and early in 1942 the Ottawa government bowed to West Coast pressure and began the relocation of Japanese nationals and Canadian citizens alike.

While this forced resettlement mirrored the wartime policy of the American government, in Canada there were some important differences. Unlike the United States, where families were generally kept together, Canada initially sent its male evacuees to road camps in the B.C. interior, to sugar beet projects on the Prairies, or to internment in a POW camp in Ontario, while women and children were moved to six inland B.C. towns created or revived to house the relocated populace. There the living conditions were so poor that the citizens of wartime Japan even sent supplemental food shipments through the Red Cross. During the period of detention, the Canadian government spent one-third the per capita amount expended by the U.S. on Japanese American evacuees.

Not until 1949, four years after Japan had surrendered, were the majority of Nikkei allowed to return to British Columbia. By then most had chosen to begin life anew elsewhere in Canada. Their property had long before been confiscated and sold at a fraction of its worth.

Injustices suffered as a result of these policies fueled a redress movement in the 1980s which coincided with a similar movement in the United States. These efforts, while not uniformly supported by the older Nikkei community, challenged Canada to consider and affirm the depth of its oft-stated commitment to a multicultural society. In 1988, 111 years after the first Japanese entered Canada, Prime Minister Brian Mulroney formally apologized to Japanese Canadians and authorized the provision of $21,000 (Cdn.) to each of the survivors of wartime detention.

Amanda23

This is certainly a fascinating topic, and I am glad it was resurrected. But I must respond to the comment made by &quot;mm&quot; earlier that stated that the Holocaust could not be compared to things like African slavery or the treatment of Native peoples in North America. IN NO WAY do I wish to demean or trivialize the horrors of the Holocaust, however, having acquired a Native Studies degree here in Canada, I can tell you that the atrocities committed against Native peoples in Canada and the U.S. likely felt equally terrifying to those suffering through them as the Holocaust did to the Jews. We cannot compare devastation to devastation, simply because one event killed more people or was more prolific in the history of humanity. In my country many politicians and civilians have attempted to &quot;blot out&quot; the memory of the terrible treatment of Native people that continues today in the form of rampant racism across my otherwise wonderful country. It is so sad that people do these things to one another, I think that the phrase &quot;Lest we forget&quot; that is spoken around the world on November 11th each year should apply to all human atrocities, because many of them have been forgotten.

Robespierre

History Channel showed a doco the other night concerning Hitler's sequel to <u>Mein Kampf</u>. In it, he propounded his theory of why nation-states have to expand or die, and the necessity of liquidating any indigenous populations who are in the way.

He based his theory on the history of America in the 19th century.

elaine

I think each individual is entitled to his/her own feelings on this, and there is no one answer for everyone. Each should do what he/she is comfortable with when it comes to optional travel.

I could understand an African person taking a stand against the USA as a Jewish person might against Germany. As a Jewish person myself, I have not been to Germany yet, though have not ruled it out. Yet, when I went to Vienna for the first time last year various thoughts crossed my mind, including the fact that when Hitler's troops entered Vienna they were met by cheering crowds.
Then there's Japan and just about everyplace else.

So, again, no country gets off scott-free about horrendous incidents in its past. Yes, we have to move forward, but we should never forget. And 'never forget' leads to different behavior from different travelers.

realtorseena

my husband and i went to germany to see where my father was born. he was a holocaust survivor. we did not know what to expect but my dad had always said that it was a gorgeous country-so true. the german people were wonderful. i never hid the fact that i was jewish. we have been there twice and may go again in the spring to see areas that we missed. we too have friends with the same opinion. ignore them. they do not know what they are missing. enjoy