We cross posted. I'm not sure that I see that the colon makes a difference, but that's more detail than I usually pay attention to, even in my own laborious self-correction.

Yes, grammar wars can be fun ! Glad we could come to (some kind of) an agreement!

Hi Marie,

Your first statement:

"If your dd is older or, like our son when he was a little boy, hated being served the "menu enfants",.."

would be better as

"If your dd is older or, like our son when he was a little boy, hateS being served the "menu enfants",..."

Your revised statement

"If your dd is older or is like our son who hated being served the "menu enfants" when he was a little boy..."

is perfectly OK because, IIRC, "menu enfants" means the child's meal as different from a "carte", which is a list of offerings.

Furthermore, in the full sentence

"If your dd is older... using the expression one of the forumites suggested ....should be OK."

is perfectly all right.

You write English better than most native speakers.

Ira--you may be right about the whole "menu enfants" thing, as my French isn't very good.

You are not right about the "using" thing. Your "pronouncements" do not negate the explanations above.

To Cimbrone, Nikki and Ira :

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions and kind words ! I copied and pasted them in a file.

As you said, Nikki, the "menu enfant" is an alternative to the "carte"... On this site, one can see that these "menu enfants" can even be served for free at "Chez Léon" in Bruxelles :

http://www.chezleon.be/index.asp?ID=353

Now, in spite of the fact my sentence was way too long, I thought that the gerund "using" when used as the subject of a verb (<<like in "using the expression one of the forumites suggested "..." should be OK>&gt was correct... Maybe, I should have used 2 commas instead of my "deux points"/colon to quote the sentence "nous partagerons"...

Anyway, again, thanks to all of you !/Merci à vous tous ! Cordialement. Marie

Mon amie, Merci

Marie, I can't take credit for Ira's comment about the menu enfants.

As for the other sentence, there are two votes that it is fine (mine and Ira's) and one vote that it would be fine if you had not set off the quotation with a colon, on the grounds that using the colon marks the end of a sentence (Cimbrone's).

This discussion makes me hope that the French language gives rise to as many ambiguities as English, that reasonable people may disagree as to proper usage, and that my own attempts to speak and write French (which I will not be demonstrating here any time soon) fall within some arguably acceptable range. If I could have French speakers arguing about the correctness of any sentence of mine as we have been about yours, I would feel satisfied indeed.

Marie, here for you. If you want, I'll cut it out of my paper and mail it to you.


http://www.nytimes.com/pages/books/index.html

Back to the sharing a meal question. The last time I was in London, we went to the theatre and afterwards everyone was hungry but me. We found an Indian restaurant close by and when we were seated and got our menus it was very clearly stated on the menu that if you sat at a table you were expected to order food. So, I ordered a small dish.

I have a feeling, that with this restaurant being so close to the theatre that they had perhaps had experience with late diners. Some of the party perhaps not wanting to eat at that hour, hence the notice on the menu. Frankly I can understand and didn't "bitch" about it and just picked a small plate. Not a problem.

To Ira :

Sorry for confusing your message with Nikki's one...

To Nikky :

Well, I must acknowledge I don't understand all the subtleties of your post related to the French language. Could you be indulgent to me and explain your point of view, please ? Merci d'avance

To Mimi,

Thanks for the link. I read the article and found it interesting but I don't think presenting the French language as one for an élite is correct... Provided one doesn't teach it, one can make mistakes and still be considered with respect. Well, I've copied and pasted this article in a file and will read it more carefully later on. Now, on to my drama club Bises to you, Mimi Marie

Marie, I see the problem in trying to decipher my long sentence. I was just saying that I hope the French language is as flexible as you were just saying to Mimi: that one can make mistakes and still be considered with respect. That there is more than one right way to say something. That even if someone thinks it is wrong, someone else might think it is right.

And giving you the compliment that several English speakers are bickering over the correctness of your sentence because you write so well. If that were to happen with a sentence I attempted in French, I would be happy.

Bonsoir Nikki,

Thanks for taking the time to explain me what you meant in your post. Now, I understand. I think a lot of foreigners see French people as being too attached to the form in the field of the language itself. A lot of foreigners think we're too attached to the past and we pay too much attention to what the "Académie Française" says about which words/structures to accept or refuse.

In fact, French is like any other "langue vivante"/living language, it evolves every day. But, contrary to English which kind of phagocytes (hmm, it's a verb in French, but it doesn't seem to exist as such in English...), so let's say that borrows any foreign terms and uses them in a way different from the one in which they were initially used in the original language, French is more "static", which means it is not going to borrow any foreign term... And which doesn't mean it's a fossilized language. New terms enter the language every day but not as many as it is the case in English...

On the one hand, it's a good thing because it protects our language against the proliferation of too many... English terms, for instance, lol, in our language... On the other one, one must not think this distinctive identity (I mean "ce particularisme&quot is what may, one day, make our language become kind of sterile.

If you listened to my students, you would see their way of speaking is often different from mine, for instance. Each generation has its linguistic codes... And some expressions I use sound strange to them and "vice versa"...

Now, as I have said, we, French people, admire the foreigners who make the effort to speak our language and we are indulgent towards them, the way you were and are towards me. The most important thing is being able to communicate with each other. Yet, in my case, things are a bit different since I'm an English teacher and must speak English as well as I can... I wish I had been born English, but, being human, I'm bound to make mistakes and use structures which are not idiomatic enough, sniff ;-( !!!

Voilà ! Hope I have not bothered you too much... Bien cordialement. Marie

papagena wrote "I'm curious - is it acceptable practice in the USA to have four people sit down in a restaurant and order meals for three? If it is it would save us wasting so much food next time we go to America (the portions are so much bigger we never finish all the food on the table)."

Yes, frequently people in the US to share meals. Depends on the restaurant. Some will merely bring an extra plate and let you divide everything up. Others will actually divide it up for you. Some places (especially better restaurants) may chart an extra fee for sharing.

Bon soir, Marie.
Thank you for that lovely discussion.

In the UK it depends on the age of the kid. At family type restaurants they will happily bring you an extra plate for you to share with a toddler. It only really happens with kids small enough to sit up in a highchair though - you'd look strange sharing with an older kid. Every family type restaurant will have a childs menu,for ages up to about 10, so get something from there. These meals are only a few pounds so you are not wasting much money if she only picks at it.

Marie, I can think of one or two borrowings from the French where there is no real English equivalent.

For example "entrepreneur", "menu", "layette", "trousseau"
I'm sure that there are French equivalents.
But revenons à nos moutons.

I personally dislike people who make a lot of fuss and fiddle-faddle in a restaurant and would never dream of asking for extra plates.
Suze, the first person to reply, had the right idea.

Phagocytes! Now there is a word I haven't seen since high school biology class. This may be my new favorite French word, and I am going to try to incorporate it into a sentence somehow.

Marie, you are also responsible for my use of @+ instead of the TTYL favored by my kids in my e-mails and instant messaging with them.

just tacky.

To Miss Prism,

Bonsoir,

Do you mean you're sure there are English equivalents of the French terms "entrepreneur", "menu", "layette", "trousseau" borrowed by English from French ?

I found "boss of a firm" for "entrepreneur", "baby clothes" for "layette" but I don't think any term for "menu" and "trousseau"... Cordialement. Marie

To Stokebailey :

"De rien !/You're welcome

To Nikki :

As you know, one can use the verb "phagocyter" literally and figuratively :

- "phagocyter / fagOsite / verbe transitif
1 biologie : to ingest by phagocytosis;
2 figuré : to swallow up."

Here's the definition coming from the "Grand Robert" :

- "Fig. Absorber et détruire (comme par phagocytose). Ce groupe a été phagocyté par un grand parti (- Noyauter"

@ + Marie