Jane

I don't know about your area, but in the area I live in men are called sluts as well.

reality

Just thought I'd throw something in on the topic. 2001 Let's Go Rome City Guide states on page 255 that Italy has one of the highest HIV rates in Europe. Sounds like being labeled is the least of your concerns, or should be.

Sharon

I am planning a trip to Italy in the near future with some friends, and just wondering if this carefree flirting is "a good thing". We are not interested in "getting our grove back". What we are concerned about is the stories of unwanted attention paid to American women and the fact that many men from other countries think that American women are sluts. <BR>Does no mean no in Italy? Will we be harrassed on the streets or in restuarants (will NOT be going into any bars)?

holly(not to be confused w/other Holly)

Sharon - <BR> <BR>I studied and worked in Italy for a total of close to 3 years in my early 20s. I think I addressed this topic in another thread awhile back. <BR> <BR>My experience has been that Italian men can, on average, be more vocal and direct with strange woman, i.e. approaching them on the street, than men here in the States. However, I find this approach easier to deal with than American men staring down women trying to provoke a reaction, instead of saying hello. Most of the flirting is harmless; they will leave you alone if you are just as direct with them. <BR> <BR>I have never heard of anyone cancelling a trip to Italy or not returning for another trip because of the assertiveness of Italian men <BR>

Holly

Another Holly here. I agree with what holly above said - it's really not a problem. They do understand that no means no. (Just don't take any of 'em up on an offer to have dinner in his apartment.)

NotAHolly

Is anyone keeping track? Exactly how many Hollies do we have now???

I'm Counting

Well, it looks like we now have two sensible Hollys and one sluttish Holly.

Laurie

<BR>Capo. <BR>I agree one hundred percent. I did not mean to make an all inclusive statement but rather I was directing it to Clair...specifically to his question. Quite frankly I probably would not "flirt" with someone I was not physically attracted to whether or not I wanted more. However, I would talk to someone in a bar just to share life's stories or travel experiences. The next question is at what point are you flirting? Or rather would Clair. think I was flirting?

Surlok

This is too subjective. What is flirting, which are the non verbal signs that confirm that there's a flirt going on, and not only a conversation? One can NOT talk and yet flirt, and one can talk without flirting, but what defines a flirt? It's the eye expression that changes, it a mischievous smile, is crossing legs, you tell me, is getting physically closer...??? <BR> <BR>This is too subtle and subjective, and also it depend from where you come from, what you "learnt", even unconsciously, that are "flirting" signs. Animals have a standard behavior that precedes the act of mating-- humans, don't! <BR> <BR>Surlok

Michael

Surlok, if you are trying to sound like an intellectual, you have failed miserably. If you are taking a psychology class in school, and are attempting to show off, please do not embarass yourself further. You are rambling in desperation and not making an ounce of sense!

holly

Hi, it's me again. The "slutty holly" as I have been called. Isn't that ridiculous? You people are so sad (except the normal people who understand sex is not a sin).

Old Fashioned

Holly Electric Blue, <BR> <BR>And you of course decided on your own that sex outside of marriage is not a sin. Are you also rewriting the other commandments to suit your needs? <BR> <BR>Where I come from if you have casual sex (whatever that is) with numerous men that you really do not know...the correct word for you is Slut...and stupid, given the nature of STD's! <BR> <BR>

Getsomeperspective

Old-fashioned: I have a news bulletin for you - not everyone believes in or considers sacred the "commandments" you refer to. If there are rules that you choose to follow in your religion, go right ahead and follow them, but it is very ethnocentric of you to assume, as you seem to, that the entire world shares your religious beliefs. <BR> <BR>It's as if a Hindu replied to a post about food with the observation that everyone who spoke about eating beef had "decided on their own that cow-eating is no longer a sin". Perhaps you ought to travel more to broaden your outlook.

OldFashioned

Getsome perspective; <BR> <BR>So now we debate whether sex outisde of marriage is wrong. Wheteher sleeping around with people you just met is wrong..no wonder we are in the shape we are in! <BR> <BR>As for other commandments, exactly what do you find offensive about telling the truth, and not stealing from your neighbor? <BR> <BR>Right is right and wrong is wrong regardless of religion, so try not to be so PC sensitive!

Notagain

Old fashioned, yes you are. The world has changed, and the West is no longer a Christiandom. People have their own beliefs and that should be respected. If you want to talk about religion go to a religious BB. It has no place here.

Getsomeperspective

Oldfashioned: No, I am not interested in debating what you consider "right" with you, you are of course entitled to your opinions. I was just pointing out that not everyone in the world believes in the "commandments" you cite. I grew up in a non-Judeo/Christian country so your "commandments" are not meaningful there. I suspect the beliefs of Buddhism or Hinduism, for example, are probably not meaningful to you, so it would be silly for a person who follows those faiths to quote to you rules of theirs that you have "broken". And they of course believe that their rules are "right" just the way you think yours are. People in non-Judeo/Christian cultures have their own set of moral beliefs, some of which coincide with what seem to be yours, and some of which do not. And yes, to address your specific issue, I have also lived in places, not my native one, where there is no concept that sex outside of marriage, as just one example, is a "sin" or is "wrong". If being aware of differences in people's belief systems is "PC", then I plead guilty. <BR> <BR>I wish you the best in following your beliefs, and hope you allow other people the same freedom.

10 percent

Gay perspective and input: <BR> <BR>Having "met" a few Italian men while on my trip to Italy I have to agree with Maria - 4 out of 5 were miniture poodle size while one was an italian stallion.

OldFashioned

Notagain, <BR> <BR>Let me rephrase it so you won't have to be so offended. <BR> <BR>Let's remove the offensive words "commandments" and "sin" and restate it this way: <BR> <BR>Is it wrong to lie and steal? <BR> <BR>Is it wrong to casually have sex with people that you barely know and do this on a regular basis? <BR> <BR>There, feel better with no agonizing evil religious overtones. The questions are just the questions! <BR> <BR>PS Even if you agree that this type of sex is OK, how do you equate the fleeting pleasure with the risk of long term STD's? <BR> <BR>Thanks,

xxx.xxx

To Clair.: You would know if I were just talking to you and not flirting if I covered my face with my hands and sat rim rod straight and spoke in monotones. <BR>I wouldn't want you to get the wrong idea. <BR>I, too, don't see what is wrong with finding another person attractive and subtly letting that person know, whatever country you are in. You can follow up the initial meeting any way you want. <BR>To Capo: It's me again. I originally meant to ask, weeks ago, whether a man in Italy in general would get overly carried away if I generally flirted with him, and whisk me away in his Ferrari to his family villa in the middle of the family wine vinyards and make me.......oh well, I was much younger three weeks ago. <BR>

Jean

<BR> <BR>OldFashioned, <BR>You're right on target!