PalenQ

What's wrong with a strtoll around The Dead City of Les Baux then a lunch? Better IMO than walking around many cities.

StuDudley

The restaurant is in a valley and the dead village is up on top of a cliff. It is 1.5K between the two and viamichelin says it takes 22 mins to walk between the two locations. Not something I would want to do before or after a 2 star anniversary lunch. The dead village is kinda dusty too.

Stu Dudley

PalenQ

Seems then they should do their one car day on Tuesday and not Thursday?

cmstraf

Good morning all,

Thanks for all your ideas. It may be Les Baux would work for the anniversary lunch and make that the day to rent a car. And yes, Stu, there is no way I would want to take a bus to get to a nice lunch. A taxi to St Remy and back sounds much better. Nice sounds quite wonderful, but we have little time and I am more interested in Provence than the Riviera for this trip. The short stop in Nice is to stretch our legs, interrupt what would otherwise be a 7-8 hour train trip AND to see the Chagall Museum.

I'm beginning to think I need to have a serious conversation about DH and the car renting question. If he were to agree, I could then rethink centering in Arles or St Remy, hopefully not too daunted by having had cancelled several hotel possibilities in Arles.

Has anyone ever stayed at'Hotel d'Europe in Avignon?

My next post will come after morning coffee not before.

PalenQ

I've stayed in Arles and to me is a great great smallish city to stay in. Roman ruins - great markets. What's wrong with staying in Arles even with car? also copies of van Gogh's works set up where he painted them. Lovely city to walk around in.

Judy

We stayed at Hotel d'Europe in Avignon but it has been a few years. It was very nice and had valet parking.

PalenQ

Avignon IME a much hader city to drive around in than smaller Arles however if day tripping.

StCirq

I am very fond of Arles and have rarely had problems driving and parking there, even on market day in high season. To me, it has a lot more to offer than St-Rémy or Avignon. Plus, it's so easy to get out to the Camargue from Arles, and I can never be in that part of France without visiting the Camargue and having a meal at La Telline.

PalenQ

Arles also has great rail service and buses to local places of interest. My favorite town in the area.

cmstraf

Thanks, all. StCirq, the problem with Arles has been that DH, who has a very long and unpleasant SF Bay area commute, does not want to spend his vacation in a car. It's not that he's afraid of the driving -- he's Italian and grew up in hilly curvy Liguria--it's that he doesn't want to be in a car. However, I'm getting so much feedback that does not favor Avignon, I'm going to talk with him about it again this Sunday.

Judy, did you like Hotel d'Europe enough for a 25th anniversary celebration? This trip to Europe will be a really mixed one for us. The day after my husband started a new job in January, he father passed away in Italy. Because there was no other family to go back to or for, made the difficult choice not to go to the funeral. The week before we come to Provence we will be in Genoa, doing things to remember Marco's father and giving a lunch for a friends to honor Alfredo and thank them for their help. It will be a pretty solemn week, making me even more obsessive/attentive than usual about making our week in Provence a really special celebration of our 25th anniversary, and a time of rest and beauty for DH.

PalenQ

cmstraf: Here is one person who has stayed in Avignon several times over the years and loves it. Sans car I would highly recommend basing in Avignon - by any standard one of Europe's most gorgeous old cities:

https://www.google.com/search?q=avig...h=759&dpr=1.25

Avignon can be too crowded in mid-summer especially during the immensely popular Avignon Festival. But even then I find Avignon exciting to be in, especially at night when the streets are full of strollers and the monumental Palace of the Popes, one of the most awesome medieval edifices in Europe is wonderfully illuminated. As is the famed Pont d'Avignon, a medieval bridge famedin a children's song that ends halfway out in a wide river, broken but unbent. To stroll out on the bridge and see walled Avignon as a whole from there is just so so sweet! Avignon to me is one of the most beautiful cities in France.

And Avignon has a wide selection of hotels and restaurants, including Michelin-starred ones.

It is also a utilitarian base for transports by train and bus and escorted day tours to nearby gems of this part of Provence.

Sans car I would recommend Avignon as the best base for the average tourist looking for medieval splendor - yes Avignon does get dissed a lot by Fodorgarchs who often diss places that attract a lot of tourists IME but the average tourist often falls in love with it as I did the first time I stayed there.

With car I recommend Arles - without Avignon. You'll love it!

Why Avignon makes a great place to base:

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2...guide-eurostar

StuDudley

Your husband won't enjoy the commute today - with all the rain. Makes me glad I retired in 1999.

Here is something I wrote many years ago about visiting the Luberon with a car. The hill villages there are very close to each other. Note how much time is spent in the car versus time in the villages.

Luberon - Time schedule

8:00 or 8:30 - Get to Gordes, pull the car over at the view "spot" & take a picture. Park the car in the lot, and visit Gordes. Have a cafe creme & croissants for breakfast at one of the outdoor cafes. Walk down to the Lavoire & back. Explore Gordes.

10:00 leave Gordes.
10:30 arrive in Oppede le Vieux & explore a bit
11:30 leave Oppede, drive to Menerbes
11:45 arrive in Menerbes & explore. Grab a sandwich for lunch & sit on a bench with a view & have lunch.
12:45 leave Menerbes
1:00 arrive in Lacoste, drive up towards the village & view Bonnieux across the valley. No visit of Lacoste. Drive to Bonnieux.
1:45 Visit Bonnieux (sandwich, if you didn't have one in Menerbes)
3:15 leave Bonnieux & head to Roussillon.
3:45 arrive in Roussillon, park the car, and explore Roussillon. Visit the Ocre fields. Have an afternoon coffee at a cafe.
5:45 Leave Roussillon. If you still have some energy left, visit Goult - otherwise, call it a day.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

PS

That drive through the Luberon hill villages is nothng like driving on Hwy 80 or others in the Bay Area. The roads in the Luberon between the villages are all small roads, that pass by vineyards, orchards, and offer many splendid views of the hill villages from down below. Here is a description of this drive - it is from the itinerary I beleve I sent you:

The stars *** next to various sites, indicates the rating given to the site by the Michelin Green Guide to Provence.

Start by approaching Gordes* on the D15 from the south side and have your cameras ready. Gordes is perhaps the most photographed village in Provence. There is a plateau with a wonderful view of this perched village. You’re not supposed to stop there, but everyone does – they can’t resist. To visit Gordes, you should park in the large lot (pay about 3E) down below the town (steep walk up). Explore this village thoroughly – not just the areas directly around the Chateau. There is an ATM in town on the side of the chateau where the outdoor cafés are located. On Tuesday morning there is an outdoor market in Gordes. It’s a little touristy, but quite good. There is a GR (walking route) that goes through this village and it passes by the lower sections of Gordes. Try to pick it up & follow it down hill. The route is marked by a red & white stripe, usually painted on the sides of buildings. As you face the Chateau with your back to the main entrance to town (the steep hill), there are several shops on your right (look for a Pharmacy) and follow one of these streets down to where it passes a church. The road turns right just past this church (there is a GR mark where it turns right). (If you go straight past the church, where is a wonderful panoramic view - look for the “Point de Vue” sign). If you follow the GR down hill (after you have turned right past the church) you will see an old medieval washing basin (lavoir) and also get a close-up view of how they built these perched villages on top of rock outcroppings. It’s about a 10 minute walk from the center of Gordes down to this wash basin. There is a nice shaded area near the basins where you can relax & enjoy the surroundings. This is a very interesting walk.

After Gordes, head to Oppede le Vieux*. Leave Gordes and at Les Imberts, veer to the left just past a gas station. Then take a left opposite the “Exit” sign to Les Imberts and at a sign that says “clos de Cesar”. Go over a small bridge and past a lavender field. At an intersection, keep going straight towards the N100 and the Luberon Mountain range. At the N100, take a right and then immediately turn left & go under the railroad tracks. Follow the signs to Oppede les Vieux. There is a town of Oppede which is not “le Vieux” (old). It’s a pretty drive getting there from Gordes. Part of the drive strangely passes through a parking lot. As you approach Oppede le Vieux, get the cameras ready.

After Oppede, head towards Menerbes* (another pretty drive getting there). Explore Menerbes. If you have read Peter Mayle’s book, you’ll know that this is where he lived. Many people just drive through Menerbes – we did the first couple of times we visited. It’s actually a great town to explore on foot. Some of the most interesting areas are on back streets & even on some dirt streets. There are many artisans scattered throughout the village.

After Menerbes, head to Lacoste. Although the “main road” to Lacoste (D109) will take you up on a plateau & directly into Lacoste from the west, I prefer the road south of Lacoste (D103 towards Bonnieux then the D3) that passes through some pretty countryside with vineyards & cherry orchards (bypassing Lacoste). As I said, there is no wrong road in this area - if you have the time, take every one. Both Lacoste & Bonnieux are perched villages – staring at each other over a valley. The settings of both are quite spectacular. The best view of Lacoste is from the D3 just west of where it intersects the D109. Take the D109 into Lacoste & drive up into the village, but turn around at the Marie parking lot & retrace your route (heading to Bonnieux). This will afford you good views of Bonnieux. One unfortunate situation is that you really can’t get good views of both Lacoste & Bonnieux at the same time of day because of the sun’s position. We usually view Lacoste on our morning drives and Bonnieux in the evening just prior to dinner.

Explore Bonnieux*. Walk up the narrow R Marie (see the green Michelin Guide) to the Terrasse to get a wonderful panoramic view of the area. Walk down R Voltaire & peek into the antique shop to see a very interesting interior.

Drive through Bonnieux & head toward Lourmarin on the D36 & look behind you to see another great view of Bonnieux – more picture taking. When you get to the D943, head north toward Apt.

An optional stop is at the Fort de Buoux (look for signs just after the turn onto D943) which was a refuge for the Waldensians and then destroyed by Louis XIV. Pick up the English guide & walk around the Fort. A bit of climbing is involved, but I found the fort more interesting than I expected and the views from the top were great. There are usually a lot of rock climbers in this area.

Find Saignon on your map & drive there on the D232 from Bonnieux. There are some pretty lavender fields on each side of the road as you approach Saignon. There is a picturesque view of the village from this road too. Explore Saignon on foot – there is an interesting lunch spot in town.

Take the D48 to Apt. There’s another lovely view of Saignon from this road and another lavender field. Notice the rock formations west of this road. This Saignon/Apt excursion will add about 45 minutes to your touring, and the outskirts of Apt and some of the urban sprawl are not what you want to experience. However, Saignon is quite lovely & it’s in a pretty setting and the lavender fields make a wonderful experience (in early summer when the lavender is in bloom). If the lavender fields are not in bloom & you need to save some time, then skip this excursion. Instead of heading to Saignon after Bonnieux, take the D149 north to the N100. There is actually a very pretty lavender field with a view of Lacoste in the background along this road. My wife has taken several pictures of this scene.

Head to Roussillon* and explore this village (map in the green guide). You will have to park below the village & walk up. There are a lot of shops in Roussillon and they are open on Sunday (never been there on a Monday). This is a good place for lunch and, although the cafes might seem a little touristy, it’s a fun spot if you happen on a sunny day. Visit the ochre fields close by, but do not wear white shoes, white sox, or touch your face with your hands. The ochre color is hard to get out. Don’t try to drive through Roussillon – my wife got stuck on our last visit & she was mad at me for hours for insisting that she drive through Roussillon.

After Roussillon, take the D104 to Goult and explore this town. Check out the restaurant I recommended (Bartavelle). Wander through this town that is a bit off the main tourist itinerary. Find the Chateau & walk the streets around it. Like Gordes, notice how the Chateau engages the rock outcropping it is sitting on. There is an area near a windmill with some wonderful views looking south. There is another great viewpoint marked “panorama” – look for the signs at the windmill end of the village, towards the chateau. If I had to live in one of these pretty towns in the Luberon, this is where it would be.

After Goult, drive through St Pentaleon, and then back to Gordes.

If you have seen pictures of an Abbey with large Lavender fields in the foreground, that’s Senanque Abbey** just outside of Gordes. This scene is actually on the cover of the green Michelin guide The drive there is beautiful and the setting is lovely. It is best viewed in the morning, when the sun is on the façade of the Abbey.

I’m not a fan of Fountaine de Vaucluse, although it’s “rated” quite high. I’ve never seen the fountaine because I’ve never been there in the spring when the fountaine gushes. The town is way too touristy for me, but the walk along the tree-shaded Sorgue river is very nice if you can do it at a time when there are not many tourists around (in the AM).

The Luberon is a great place for bicycling. There are some roads that are only open for bikers & walkers. The routes are very well marked. We have taken all-day walks on several of them. You can rent bikes in Apt & Bonnieux and take a round trip, or go from Apt toward Cavaillon, and take a bus back. A “flyer” I picked up from the tourist office says that the rental shop in Bonnieux has “free delivery” of bikes. Pick up a brochure called “The Luberon by Bike” (in English) at any tourist office. In this brochure, it indicates the route, has a relief map depicting the height & length of hills, distances, and even a bus schedule. I believe that Russ Collins has portions of this brochure on his web site, and he also has a list of rental shops in nearby towns.



Stu Dudley

Judy

It has been a few years since we stayed at Hotel l'Europe so I really can't say if I'd recommend it for an anniversary stay. It was a convenient location to see Avignon and to drive in and out of. We haven't stayed in hotels in a long time.

I can appreciate your husband not wanting to be in a car but I don't know how much more comfortable buses or taxis would be. Maybe it is the driving he doesn't want. Have you considered being the driver and he can navigate?

PalenQ

guided excursions would be no sweat at all of course but expensive though maybe not as expensive as renting a car for a few days. And most day trips can as said several times above can be done bypublic transport.

StuDudley

Pal

On my post (above) describing my favorite day trip to visit the hill villages & vineyards in the Luberon - please detail how this would be done by public transportation - in one day. And how about my second favorite day trip - through the mountains north of Gordes through the lavender fields of Sault, hill village of Montbrun, and then back through the Gorges de la Nesque. Then my third favorite day trip through the Cote du Rhone wine villages and through the Dentelles, and Vaison - both Roman section & medieval section and then to Crestet. And my fourth favorite day trip to Mt Ventoux and the charming village of Brantes, the medieval lavoire and village of Mollans, and Buis les Baronnies, and then the Baronnies mountains. Then my fifth favorite through the southern Luberon and Lourmarin village & castle, Lauris, Cucuron, Silvacane Abbey, and about a half -dozen other hill villages in the region. Then my sixth favorite day trip to the Valensole lavender fields, Moustiers, Riez, and the Gorges de Verdon. These six day trips and "others" are why we return to Provence often. We visit Provence for the lovely countryside, small villages, gorges, mountains, abbeys - in addition to the large cities of Avignon, Arles, Aix, & Nimes. It is easy to visit these large cities by public transportation - but after the second one, they start to look the same. And if visiting this cities is the "focus" of a visit to Provence - you wild be missing the best stuff, IMO.

Stu Dudley

StCirq

"guided excursions would be no sweat at all of course but expensive though maybe not as expensive as renting a car for a few days."

A simple Google search on several guided excursion sites shows that such tours range from about 55-350 euros a day per person. You could rent a whole passel of cars for those prices.

But the OP's husband doesn't want to drive, so they are going to have to settle for sitting on buses and in taxis, spending a lot for guided tours, or picking someplace else to visit.

cmstraf

Yes, Stu, the rain was really pelting this morning. I am going to discuss the car vs public transportation issue again with my husband. I will offer to drive, and I get it about the roads being lovely and pastoral. We were thinking of trains,taxis and walking, not buses, where I don't do well unless I'm in the front seat.
We have only done one guided excursion ever -- in Bhutan (guide required) and I must say it was magical. However, we paid a surcharge to be a group of two.
Thanks, PalenQ, for the photos of Avignon -- they are gorgeous. Actually, the more I read and the more I see, the more I wish we were spending more time in Provence. We arrive Sunday evening, leave for Paris Saturday morning, so whatever we do, it will just be a taste of this beautiful area this time. I already want to come back for the lavender sometime. We will have more options for time in Europe in the future since family will not take us to Genoa for a week each time we go.
When we went to Sicily, we spent three weeks (renting a car), and felt like six weeks divided into two three weeks trips would have been better. I can already see how Provence might merit something similar.

StuDudley

Here is my wife's Shutterfly book she developed from our 2014 trip to the Cote d'Azur & Provence (we were there last year also),

https://stududley.shutterfly.com/28

Because of Shutterfly problems, captions & titles are often missing or truncated. Also, they recently made an "enhancement" to take away the "full screen" viewing option. If you have a Shutterfly account, try coping it into your account to view it.

Stu Dudley

Odin

I can only repeat what most of the other posters have said and that is to rent a car. Without one, you won't be able to get the most out of your rather short trip. Driving in Provence is not like driving to work, I have driven to work for many years and it does not stop me renting a car abroad, in fact it makes me more inclined to. A 2 hour commute does not seem that much (if it is a total of 2 hours daily rather than 2 hours there and 2 hours back which would be alot) Trains and buses don't go everywhere and at the time you want. I've had my fair share of crazy taxi drivers. You won't be spending all your time in a car, distances between villages you might want to see can be short, without a car you either won't be able to see those villages or you'll have to waste time waiting for a bus, if there is one. Alot of places we stop are places we just stumble across, like a beautiful local restaurant. My mother lives in the south of France in a remote rural area and some taxi drivers are very reluctant to go out that far.