September Italy trip 11 days and no plans "just Wingin-it"
Aug 15th, 2005, 05:26 PM
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September Italy trip 11 days and no plans "just Wingin-it"
My wife and I are leaving for Italy the 1st of September. We arrive Rome and return to Rome. We are renting a car and heading North to Portofino and Genoa. We really would like to see Lake Como area and then onto ?????? We have been to Venice a couple years ago and would enjoy to spend at least one night! We find Bolgna interesting!what's your opinion. We also want to go back to Florence. Believe it or not we weren't overly impressed with Florence on our first trip their. It was mobbed with students and very crowded. We enjoyed what we could, though you just could'nt get away from the crowd; and they were so obnoxious.We had some great meals in Florence and would like to give it another shot.Our plans also include Tuscany upon heading back to Rome. We would love to do something romantic "villa" rental splurge$$$ Any recommendations would be appreciated.. We really don't have any plans as I mentioned and don't have a budget either in regards to accommadations. We are in our late thirties and love good food an wine and casual nightlife .We normally stay at a four star while traveling in Europe . WE would also appreciate any hotels in the areas we mentioned or areas you may think we can't miss. Thank you for any insight.
Sincerely,
Scott
Sincerely,
Scott
Aug 15th, 2005, 06:33 PM
#2
Sept. 1st of this year? Your potential list includes some of the most popular tourist destinations in Italy. Personally, I wouldn't want to travel in early Sept. without hotel reservations in Portofino, Lake Como, Venice, Florence and to some extent Rome. Of course, if you have no budget (meaning anything goes), you may have no problems.
Florence will be crowded in early September. You could stay in nearby Fiesole and spend your time in Florence in small doses.
The Grand Hotel Serbelloni in Bellagio may be the only 4* or higher mid-Lake hotel with availability on such short notice. I wouldn't arrive in the mid-Lake area without a reservation for at least the first night.
Florence will be crowded in early September. You could stay in nearby Fiesole and spend your time in Florence in small doses.
The Grand Hotel Serbelloni in Bellagio may be the only 4* or higher mid-Lake hotel with availability on such short notice. I wouldn't arrive in the mid-Lake area without a reservation for at least the first night.
Aug 15th, 2005, 06:46 PM
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The Monza Grand Prix is early this year, and you're going to have to really hustle (or take the bottom of the barrel, possibly or both) to find accommodations anywhere in the Milan/Como area, for September 2-4.
I had a lot of trouble looking in July, for a week later in September (2000) - - though that was looking for four rooms (big difference); anyhow, Andrea Grisdale of www.icbellagio.com was a big help to me.
I actually don't understand what are your plans and/or how your message header expains what you plan to do. You mention five or six destinations for only 11 days - - and "wingin-it", but then you also say you are looking for a villa. If any nice villa IS available on this kind of short notice, they are ALWAYS for Saturday-to-Saturday. I don't see how this jives with your "11 days" plans.
Moreover, a "villa rental splurge" for two people is what I believe to be a common "myth". The truly nice villas are big places, suitable to sleep 6, 8, 12 or more - - and priced as if that many people are splitting the costs. So, the splurge places that come to my mind are $3000, $6000, $9000 or more for a week. And all if them were booked up (for early September 2005), months ago.
So, maybe what you are actually seeking is a <i>former</i> villa or little "palazzo" that now operates as a small hotel or inn. Perhaps?
Several people will be able to make a recommendation to you on that. On my "must-try-someday" list are Locanda dell'Amorosa or Palazzo Squarcialupi or Villa Scacciapensieri
Maybe see also http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34550762
Best wishes,
Rex
I had a lot of trouble looking in July, for a week later in September (2000) - - though that was looking for four rooms (big difference); anyhow, Andrea Grisdale of www.icbellagio.com was a big help to me.
I actually don't understand what are your plans and/or how your message header expains what you plan to do. You mention five or six destinations for only 11 days - - and "wingin-it", but then you also say you are looking for a villa. If any nice villa IS available on this kind of short notice, they are ALWAYS for Saturday-to-Saturday. I don't see how this jives with your "11 days" plans.
Moreover, a "villa rental splurge" for two people is what I believe to be a common "myth". The truly nice villas are big places, suitable to sleep 6, 8, 12 or more - - and priced as if that many people are splitting the costs. So, the splurge places that come to my mind are $3000, $6000, $9000 or more for a week. And all if them were booked up (for early September 2005), months ago.
So, maybe what you are actually seeking is a <i>former</i> villa or little "palazzo" that now operates as a small hotel or inn. Perhaps?
Several people will be able to make a recommendation to you on that. On my "must-try-someday" list are Locanda dell'Amorosa or Palazzo Squarcialupi or Villa Scacciapensieri
Maybe see also http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34550762
Best wishes,
Rex
Aug 15th, 2005, 06:57 PM
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A part of me wants to say, "are you serious?" but I suspect you are. Another part of me somewhat admires people who can be content "winging it" on a vacation, but I know I'd never be happy doing it as I want more than just a roof over my head, and it seems such a waste of travel time having to hunt endlessly daily for a place to stay. Picking wonderful places to stay is a big part of my travel planning, and I'd be very unhappy with taking the leftovers in lodging at a busy time like that -- if we could even find leftovers. I'd be afraid of sleeping in the car or worse.
I understand what you say about Florence. I was underwhelmed also. If you've seen the great art, it seems silly to return just because you had some great meals there -- you can do that anywhere in Tuscany.
If I were you, I'd be spending hours now making some reservations, if I could find them and let the places available dictate where exactly I was going. Somehow I get the feeling that if you prefer staying in four star hotels, you aren't going to be happy sleeping in the last room available in a two star outside of Portofino.
I understand what you say about Florence. I was underwhelmed also. If you've seen the great art, it seems silly to return just because you had some great meals there -- you can do that anywhere in Tuscany.
If I were you, I'd be spending hours now making some reservations, if I could find them and let the places available dictate where exactly I was going. Somehow I get the feeling that if you prefer staying in four star hotels, you aren't going to be happy sleeping in the last room available in a two star outside of Portofino.
Aug 15th, 2005, 07:18 PM
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Thank you all for your responses. Yes I am serious! We always take so much time preparing with hotels and restaurants whenever we travel to Europe. Wingin-it means we don't have a place nor time to be at. We have been married for fifteen years and if we are stuck with shabby hotels so be it.It's my wife big idea!!!! we normally travel off shoulder months when things aren't to crazy,but we just booked this trip on the 13th of august. I thought worse case senario we could stay outside of touristy areas and travel in. Please tell me if this is a bad idea. We did a trip such as this in the South of France and really did'nt have much of a problem.Although we had some hotels picked out in the areas we thought we would end up in. I certainly do not want to sleep in our car!!!! As far as Tuscany I meant more of some types of B&B's I found that were still available, but for a price. Thank you Rex for your advice Sept.2-4 I will try to avoid the lakes until after that weekend. Once again thanks for your opinions. It will help with our decisions.
Aug 15th, 2005, 07:22 PM
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I think if you want to avoid crowds in Florence, early September is the wrong time. I'm not sure if there's a right time, but sometime in late fall or winter, excluding the Christmas-Epiphany season, might be a better time. But if you do go to Florence, you might prefer to stay in the Oltrarno, the south side of the river. I think if you want the ideal villas and hotels, you shouldn't wing it. Even now is a little late to be looking, but an unlimited budget should help.
Aug 15th, 2005, 07:38 PM
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Scott, Please don't take this the wrong way, but September is high travel time for Italy. I've been planning my trip in Sept for months and had my hotel reservations made many months ago. Even at that point, there were a couple that were full for the days I wanted.
In addition, you have listed EIGHT places you want to visit: Rome, Portofino, Genoa, Lake Como, Venice, Bologna, Florence, Tuscany. And you're driving, which certainly takes longer than taking the train. I just don't see how you can possibly see all these places in eleven days! With the driving time inbetween these places, you will have less than a day in most places. It seems like a lot of driving and very virtually no time seeing anyplace you stop. A lot of money spent for the little you will see.
I hope you have a wonderful trip, but I really think you need to reconsider your plans.
In addition, you have listed EIGHT places you want to visit: Rome, Portofino, Genoa, Lake Como, Venice, Bologna, Florence, Tuscany. And you're driving, which certainly takes longer than taking the train. I just don't see how you can possibly see all these places in eleven days! With the driving time inbetween these places, you will have less than a day in most places. It seems like a lot of driving and very virtually no time seeing anyplace you stop. A lot of money spent for the little you will see.
I hope you have a wonderful trip, but I really think you need to reconsider your plans.
Aug 15th, 2005, 07:44 PM
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If you really are going to "wing it" then I'm not sure whay you are asking for recommendations unless you plan on going ahead and reserving those.
There is only ONE way to find out if there is any availability at places such as the villas that Rex has decided are "all sold out" and the hotels that Patrick thinks you won't get into..and that is to try reserving them NOW.
Otherwise go ahead and truly wing it and I suspect you'll come away with a lot more adventure than anyone who has posted thus far is willing to take a chance on.
There is only ONE way to find out if there is any availability at places such as the villas that Rex has decided are "all sold out" and the hotels that Patrick thinks you won't get into..and that is to try reserving them NOW.
Otherwise go ahead and truly wing it and I suspect you'll come away with a lot more adventure than anyone who has posted thus far is willing to take a chance on.
Aug 15th, 2005, 08:18 PM
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Sorry I may have confused some. I am not spending any time in Rome only the airport. I am not totally sure where we are going that's why I'm asking all your advice and do appreciate it. Our plans are to travel "North" we really want to spend a couple of days on the Italian Riviera and head towards Lake Como. I asked what people thought about Bologna? We may spend a day in Venice Most likely a night (Europa Regina hotel) It's available to us. Then head south to Tuscany region incuding possibly Florence which we have been before. I am more curious of seeing smaller little quaint towns in Tuscany and Umbria. We will stay our last night near FCO being our flight leaves early a.m. on the twelve. " 3 destinations with side trips" Genova,Como,Tuscany etc. Thanks once again
Aug 15th, 2005, 09:47 PM
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Hey Scott!
Congratulations on your decision to "wing It!"
I am leaving the same day, with the same attitude, but traveling solo. I overdosed on planning and replanning to find the "best" place to sleep 2 trips ago (didn't have time), and last time got all the way to London before making any reservation at all in Italy.
I ended up in a wonderful small hotel at my location that I found on Venere.com and had a great experience.
You asked for insight: Here's mine-Please cherish your attitude of spontanaity, openness and willingness to take chances. It's a rare gift that will take you farther in Italy than the most carefully laid plans, because you have embraced the element of surprise which lies at the heart of any adventure.
This is a sign a being young at heart, don't ever lose it!
Keep a slip of paper with the internet addresses for Venere.com, italyby.com, sleepinitlay.com, and one or two others. And use the telephone rather than email from now on, call the hotels to see if there are rooms. Then back it up with email.
BTW, Bologna is a wonderful city. Because of the presence of the university there, it's filled with interesting people, and the food is amazing. Several friends live there, and I have fond memories of past visits. One could just have a 2-day passegiata through the lovely porticos and feel fulfilled.
Your will find your hotels and your B & Bs, don't worry at all! You and your wife sound like a wonderful couple, who knows maybe I'll run in to you both by chance on our parallel roads into the beautiful unknown places of my favorite country, and we can share an espresso or a glass of wine!
Congratulations on your decision to "wing It!"
I am leaving the same day, with the same attitude, but traveling solo. I overdosed on planning and replanning to find the "best" place to sleep 2 trips ago (didn't have time), and last time got all the way to London before making any reservation at all in Italy.
I ended up in a wonderful small hotel at my location that I found on Venere.com and had a great experience.
You asked for insight: Here's mine-Please cherish your attitude of spontanaity, openness and willingness to take chances. It's a rare gift that will take you farther in Italy than the most carefully laid plans, because you have embraced the element of surprise which lies at the heart of any adventure.
This is a sign a being young at heart, don't ever lose it!
Keep a slip of paper with the internet addresses for Venere.com, italyby.com, sleepinitlay.com, and one or two others. And use the telephone rather than email from now on, call the hotels to see if there are rooms. Then back it up with email.
BTW, Bologna is a wonderful city. Because of the presence of the university there, it's filled with interesting people, and the food is amazing. Several friends live there, and I have fond memories of past visits. One could just have a 2-day passegiata through the lovely porticos and feel fulfilled.
Your will find your hotels and your B & Bs, don't worry at all! You and your wife sound like a wonderful couple, who knows maybe I'll run in to you both by chance on our parallel roads into the beautiful unknown places of my favorite country, and we can share an espresso or a glass of wine!
Aug 16th, 2005, 05:17 AM
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<<Thank you Rex for your advice Sept.2-4>>
You're welcome. By th way, it's not a "bad" time to be at Lake Como; there is actually a rather festive mood, since the Italians are typically doing well at F1, and the people watching of the rich and glamorous is primo during race weeekend. You just have to be tenacious to find a room, with only 18 days to go.
<<There is only ONE way to find out if there is any availability at places such as the villas that Rex has decided are "all sold out" ...>>
I tell you what, Intrepid... you find even ONE "vila rental splurge" with availability right now for September 2-9, and I'll match it, 20 for 1, with places that are NOT available. It all seems irrelevant, anyhow; there is nothing about Scott's plans that is even vaguely a fit for a week long villa stay as most people use the word "villa" (i.e., self-catering accommodation) - - if that was what he really needed/wanted, I/"we" know that the place he neeeds to go, pronto, is www.slowtrav.com
And while I am happy to offer advice which I hope Scott will find helpful, I'm with Patrick (polar opposite of Bellastar) on NOT offering "congratulations" about a decision to go "winging it" in the late summer/autumn of Italy. In fact, I would refer Scott to my earlier post on http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34557708
Patrick and I were on the same wavelength on that one also!
You're welcome. By th way, it's not a "bad" time to be at Lake Como; there is actually a rather festive mood, since the Italians are typically doing well at F1, and the people watching of the rich and glamorous is primo during race weeekend. You just have to be tenacious to find a room, with only 18 days to go.
<<There is only ONE way to find out if there is any availability at places such as the villas that Rex has decided are "all sold out" ...>>
I tell you what, Intrepid... you find even ONE "vila rental splurge" with availability right now for September 2-9, and I'll match it, 20 for 1, with places that are NOT available. It all seems irrelevant, anyhow; there is nothing about Scott's plans that is even vaguely a fit for a week long villa stay as most people use the word "villa" (i.e., self-catering accommodation) - - if that was what he really needed/wanted, I/"we" know that the place he neeeds to go, pronto, is www.slowtrav.com
And while I am happy to offer advice which I hope Scott will find helpful, I'm with Patrick (polar opposite of Bellastar) on NOT offering "congratulations" about a decision to go "winging it" in the late summer/autumn of Italy. In fact, I would refer Scott to my earlier post on http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34557708
Patrick and I were on the same wavelength on that one also!
Aug 16th, 2005, 05:40 AM
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Scott, with all due respect, traveling halfway around the world without knowing you have a place to sleep seems a bit crazy to me. We are "winging" it in the sense that we have a base for 4 days in SML and don't know exactly what we are going to do each day, but at least I know where I'm sleeping. If you normally stay at 4-star places, you might be a bit unhappy searching for a room at the last minute. I did that once here in the states and we spent an entire afternoon trying to find a hotel that was acceptable to us. What a waste of time. If you have a car, why not pick a centrally located town and make that your base? You can do day trips from there, but at least you have a place to sleep.
Aug 16th, 2005, 05:49 AM
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Well, Rex and Patrick, even though we are clearly at polar opposites, I also congratulate both of you on your detail and planning skills. To each his own, or her own, in my case. If having all the details in place is what you enjoy, that's nice. I happen to be someone who welcomes surprises, and many of my most cherished memories are the direct result of this quirk.
The fact is, I'm smiling at the moment, because I just got off the phone with someone I met last year, by coincidence, on Ischia (where i went on last-minute whim, and discovered a great hotel.) She has a house in Cortona, and has lived there for fourteen years. She first went there on a whim, and stayed forever. (No, it's not Frances Mayes, just a neighbor of hers)
She told me there wasn't such a terrible problem with crowds there, for the last couple of years in fact, it's less crowded than before because of the Euro/dollar conversion rates.
So I'll be visiting her for an overnight, and have no intention of spending even one minute worrying about a detailed itinerary.
I absolutely understand Scott's desire to see everything possible, and that when there, certain things will fall by the wayside, which is only natural. And so few people have a sense of adventure anymore, of course I congratulate him on it.
I've traveled to Italy seven times now in the past 4 years, and not once have I had a problem finding accommodations. I've met some fantastic people, by staying off the beaten tracks, and by not being too sstrict with my itinerary.
I will admit that you would probably never have me as a member of one of your "group trips", rex, because I'm quite sure that I would drive you crazy by failing to obey the carefully designed rules!
But, in my own favor, had I not given myself over to chance, I would never have learned to speak Italian wo well, and in fact would probably never have traveled to Italy at all, because from the first trip, it was an impractical decision, and totally outside of my "budget!".
Today, as a result of all my foolishness, I enjoy warm friendships with a number of Italians, and am always confident I'll discover a wealth of new things on every trip.
The fact is, I'm smiling at the moment, because I just got off the phone with someone I met last year, by coincidence, on Ischia (where i went on last-minute whim, and discovered a great hotel.) She has a house in Cortona, and has lived there for fourteen years. She first went there on a whim, and stayed forever. (No, it's not Frances Mayes, just a neighbor of hers)
She told me there wasn't such a terrible problem with crowds there, for the last couple of years in fact, it's less crowded than before because of the Euro/dollar conversion rates.
So I'll be visiting her for an overnight, and have no intention of spending even one minute worrying about a detailed itinerary.
I absolutely understand Scott's desire to see everything possible, and that when there, certain things will fall by the wayside, which is only natural. And so few people have a sense of adventure anymore, of course I congratulate him on it.
I've traveled to Italy seven times now in the past 4 years, and not once have I had a problem finding accommodations. I've met some fantastic people, by staying off the beaten tracks, and by not being too sstrict with my itinerary.
I will admit that you would probably never have me as a member of one of your "group trips", rex, because I'm quite sure that I would drive you crazy by failing to obey the carefully designed rules!
But, in my own favor, had I not given myself over to chance, I would never have learned to speak Italian wo well, and in fact would probably never have traveled to Italy at all, because from the first trip, it was an impractical decision, and totally outside of my "budget!".
Today, as a result of all my foolishness, I enjoy warm friendships with a number of Italians, and am always confident I'll discover a wealth of new things on every trip.
Aug 16th, 2005, 05:56 AM
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I have some friends who "wing it" all the time when they travel. And they love it. They like the idea of exploring unique parts of town in the search for lodgings - and have stayed in some truly nice places - as well as some truly awful ones (a 4th floor walk-up pension with shared bath in a buidling above a club with a live sex show in Berlin for example - since the city was full - in May).
However, they don;t travel in high season - but in shoulder or low. And their time is more or less unlimited - so they don;t mind spending most of the first day looking for a place to stay - since they normally stay in each place 4 or 5 days at least.
It strikes me that winging it in mulltiple places for only 11 days in high season is more or less a recipe for disaster - or at least a huge amount of frustration.
However, they don;t travel in high season - but in shoulder or low. And their time is more or less unlimited - so they don;t mind spending most of the first day looking for a place to stay - since they normally stay in each place 4 or 5 days at least.
It strikes me that winging it in mulltiple places for only 11 days in high season is more or less a recipe for disaster - or at least a huge amount of frustration.
Aug 16th, 2005, 06:02 AM
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Hi Scott,
I have semi winged it in Italy, Greece and Frnace in July. We traveled through Tuscany and Umbria without reservations anywhere and came out just fine. A helpful hint is when asking where there is a hotel also ask about B&B's. People do not automacitcally give you the name of a B&B if you ask about a hotel. Also in towns go to the tourist information center and they have a list of hotels and B&Bs with vancancies. In Perugia and in Versaille France, we stopped at a hotel which was full, but they called around and got us a room at another hotel. In Greece we had a travel guide and called ahead for hotel reservations. We never had a bad experieince, but we were not looking for 4 star. Actually our B&B in Todi was one of the most wonderful places were stayed. We had a large room in a lovely old home in the center of the town, with a wondeful bath and the "room with the vew". This was 4 years ago and we paid $90 for three of us. I do think that early Sept can be busier than early July. Have a wonderful time and enjoy.
I have semi winged it in Italy, Greece and Frnace in July. We traveled through Tuscany and Umbria without reservations anywhere and came out just fine. A helpful hint is when asking where there is a hotel also ask about B&B's. People do not automacitcally give you the name of a B&B if you ask about a hotel. Also in towns go to the tourist information center and they have a list of hotels and B&Bs with vancancies. In Perugia and in Versaille France, we stopped at a hotel which was full, but they called around and got us a room at another hotel. In Greece we had a travel guide and called ahead for hotel reservations. We never had a bad experieince, but we were not looking for 4 star. Actually our B&B in Todi was one of the most wonderful places were stayed. We had a large room in a lovely old home in the center of the town, with a wondeful bath and the "room with the vew". This was 4 years ago and we paid $90 for three of us. I do think that early Sept can be busier than early July. Have a wonderful time and enjoy.
Aug 16th, 2005, 06:33 AM
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Wow, Thank you for all your encouragement and critizism on our plans ,but I have gone on Hotels.com and found several accommodations high and low in all the places we are interested in. In addition to, Fodors Favourites! on their site. I just received e-mail of one confirmation in Siena. So I guess last night I didn't lose any sleep. I guess my next question would be is my wife really wants to see Portofino and I lake Como. Is it realistic to spend a couple days in each and 2-3 Bologna and what ever is left over to spend in Tuscany before heading home to Arizona? Whats your opinion. Really appreciate the feed back
Sincerely,
Scott
Sincerely,
Scott
Aug 16th, 2005, 06:49 AM
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First and foremost, I strongly urge you to include Lake Como in your plans - - especially since it is a specific request your wife has made! I would put the same 20-to-1 odds on the likelihood of someone who enjoyed their time at Lake Como, versus those who didn't. The only regrets one ever hears is of not allowing enough time! Search here for the website which will give you info on Villa Balbianello - - truly spectacular - - and worthy of <i>planning</i> for.
I essentially asked for the retort from Bellastar, so I will not zing back - - and at some point in my life when the "time equals money" equation applies less to me than it does right now, I may look forward to serendipitous travel (besides by then, ubiquitous wireless access to information may mean the opportunity to combine unplanned days with informed decisions about where to spend the next night).
For what it's worth, my group trips have been way much more fluidly planned than you might suppose. It's true, simply being in a group requires a little bit of conformity, but I am very sensitive of the need, for some individuals, to get away from the rest of the group - - and even for time apart from the group of my own (infrequently) - - or is that giving <i>them</i> away from <i>me</i>!?
I essentially asked for the retort from Bellastar, so I will not zing back - - and at some point in my life when the "time equals money" equation applies less to me than it does right now, I may look forward to serendipitous travel (besides by then, ubiquitous wireless access to information may mean the opportunity to combine unplanned days with informed decisions about where to spend the next night).
For what it's worth, my group trips have been way much more fluidly planned than you might suppose. It's true, simply being in a group requires a little bit of conformity, but I am very sensitive of the need, for some individuals, to get away from the rest of the group - - and even for time apart from the group of my own (infrequently) - - or is that giving <i>them</i> away from <i>me</i>!?
