Bob Brown

As usual, the first law of visiting Paris, namely that the time required to see Paris will exceed the available time, is making me plan carefully..<BR><BR>The Mus&eacute;e Nissim de Camondo, Muse&eacute; des Arts D&eacute;coratifs, H&ocirc;tel de Soubise, H&ocirc;tel de Rohan and Mus&eacute;see Carnavalet are competing hard for time on the schedule. <BR><BR>In recent visits I have done the biggies -- Rodin, d'Orsay, Louvre, Ste. Chapelle, etc. Therefore the entry of new members into this set is not being contemplated, unless there is something that is a real blockbuster that I have omitted to date, e.g. Musee Bordelle.<BR><BR>After reading the Michelin Green guide I still cannot decided how to rank order this group in terms of priority. <BR><BR>Can any of you give an opinion and perhaps a few facts not in the guides that will help me structure my time? I am not sure if they will all fit into one day; if not, I can perhaps do 1 of them the following day, or I can even exclude one of them totally.<BR><BR>This will give some of you aficionados a real chance to discourse on the relative merits of all or some of these museums and historical residences.<BR><BR>So have a go and fill me in.<BR>

MaryC

Oh, Bob, I wish I could help you as I'm having the same problem myself. But I've only been to Paris twice so far and those were only very short visits so I'm wanting just to be able to fit the rest of some of the biggies in next trip.<BR><BR>However, I will say that the Musee Carnavalet is on my to do list. It appeals to me because of Madame de Sevigne's salons and the fact that her letters are supposed to be one of the best chroniclings of the 17th century, plus it has decorative arts in it.<BR><BR>Does that help? Any at all?? Probably not. : )

s.fowler

I'm wikth Mary on M. Carnavalet -- it is also near Musee Picasso -- which is prfetty intersting even if you aren't a big Picasso fan. They can be combined with a lunch at Ma Bourgogne, Place des Vosges.

MaryC

Yeah, I'm not a HUGE Picasso fan but I'd still like to go to the museum just to see his work but mainly would like to go because of works by others: Cezanne, Miro (we have a really nice Miro mural at the Cincinnati Art Museum that was once inside one of the downtown hotels), Degas, Matisse, Renoir, Braque.

xxx

Mary, just a small point of clarification ... I believe that the Musee Picasso that S.Fowler refers to is a gallery of Picasso's working only - no other artists. I, too, am not a big fan of Picasso but after a morning at this museum I came away with a much great appreciation of his work. I highly recommend Musee Picasso - remarkable works of art, well organized, and very informative (info in english as well as french).

MaryC

Dear xxx,<BR><BR>According to Fodor's Paris 2001 "as well as works by Cezanne, Miro, Renoir, Braque, Degas, and Matisse". Although, it doesn't state in this book, I believe I've read elsewhere that those paintings were from his own personal collection. So not only will you get to his work but you'd also get to see works he admired and bought.<BR><BR>See, I do my research. I've read thru my copy of this book so many times it's become ragged and pages are starting to fall out! : )

MaryC

Oh, and xxx, I'm glad you enjoyed his works as well. Now I really would like to go.<BR><BR>The Art Institute in Chicago has 2 Picasso's I believe, the Man with the grey guitar (I think??? It was from the blue period?) which I saw (and was really touched to be standing in front of it & see it in person) as well as another but I can't remember what it is (S. Fowler could probably help us out with that one), I think that one was on loan to another museum.

Bob

OOPs just thinking about Paris alters all perceptions of time and numbers.<BR>I started with 3 places on my list; but the list grew to 5 while answering the phone.<BR>That's why the time law of visiting Paris applies: the time available will never be enough! Once you take one step below the top tier, the number of available attractions expands exponentially as a function of the step number. The first step or first tier number is n, the second is n squared, and the 3rd one is n cubed. So if you start with 8 tier 1 attractions (n = 8), tier 2 has 56 attractions and tier 3 has 448. Of course "Paris" for this purpose includes those attractions within RER range.<BR>My deightful problem is that I started with about 15 tier 1 attractions so my tier 2 count is 225. I will not make it to tier 3 in all probability. <BR><BR>Of course the time law of visiting Paris only applies to those who want to be there and enjoy what they find.<BR><BR>I rode back on an Air France flight last time with some preacher fellow who said Paris was the hardest place he had ever seen to get around in, he stayed lost the whole time, and that nothing was worth seeing. Not even that big, ugly building that was full of pictures.<BR><BR>I asked him if he had used a good street map of Paris. No, and that there wasn't one.<BR><BR>

xxx

Thanks Mary - that's great to know!<BR><BR>Bob, sorry for the digression ...

clairobscur

Hmmm..It seems to me that part of the exhibitions of the Musee des arts decoratifs are currently closed until next year, though I could be wrong (my last visit there was last year) I can't remember which exactly. You should probably check this.<BR><BR>But they do have some exceptionnal items. In my opinion, though, one can visit this museum relatively quickly, since it's unlikely one would be interested in all the kind of items and furnitures displayed, and in all the historical eras. It's not an extremely large museum anyway.<BR><BR><BR>I'm much less convinced by the musee Carnavalet. This one is rather large, and very difficult to navigate (it includes several originally separated building and you spend a lot of time finding your way and climbing stairs up and down, even with a detailled map). The items displayed seem to me of very unequal interest, especially for a foreigner. The reconstitued rooms are interesting, though, for someone into this sort of things (by the way, I recommand checking the reconstitued jeweller shop from the beginning of the XX° century. Note that this room is difficult to find and is closed half of the day). I know though that a lot of people liked this museum, according to what I read on this board.<BR><BR><BR>Though you didn't mentionned it explicitely, I assume you already visited the Musee de Cluny?

elvira

Order of doing in my not-so-humble opinion:<BR>H&ocirc;tel de Soubise/H&ocirc;tel de Rohan - there's nothing in English, so get out the handydandy electronic translator (or the prehistoric French-English dictionary BOOK). Extraordinary stuff like the last letter Marie Antoinette wrote and the keys to the Bastille... certainly not elbow-to-elbow people when I was there.<BR>Mus&eacute;e Carnavalet - lot of French stuff. It's jam-packed, and the 67th snuff box owned by Danton is overkill. The special exhibits are better (like the Nureyev exhibit a couple of years ago, and the "3-D" exhibit of Paris). You really have to know French history to get the most out of this museum, but it IS worth the effort.<BR>Mus&eacute;e Nissim de Camondo is a wonderful respite from the crowded, guide-filled museums like the Louvre. It's a house, somebody normal lived there, it's pretty, it's a great look at how well-to-do Parisians lived years ago. Nice, quiet, relaxing - a vacation from your vacation. It looks out on Parc de Monceau, which is worth a visit, as is the rest of the neighborhood. You won't see any tour buses.<BR>Muse&eacute; des Arts D&eacute;coratifs - last on the list. It's okay, but there's nothing in it you can't see in other museums.

StCirq

I'd pick the Mus&eacute;e Nissim de Camondo, though I haven't been to the H&ocirc;tel de Soubise, so can't count it into my ranking.

Sue

I would also pick the Musee Nissim de Camundo. I really enjoyed it, and had a lovely Sunday stroll in the Parc Monceau afterwards, amongst the Parisiens. Also, the Musee Jacquemart/Andre is well worth it, and close by. They have a really nice tearoom for lunch. I think local ladies go there just for lunch, without going to the museum. The Carnavalet is bigger and more confusing, but interesting if you like French history. But I actually preferred the other two.

marilee

Hey Bob! Just to clarify...I started calculating...8 squared is 64. Cubed it is 512. But be that as it may, the idea is ..so much to see, so little time no matter what. I go to Paris for the first time in Oct. and am going for the "tier one", but find myself spilling over to the other tiers...especially after reading posts here.

Bob Brown

I guess I goofed on 8 squared. It has been 64 for several years, using base 10 calculations and not some other scheme.<BR>Base 12 doesn't do it. So some of you may be wondering if it is worthwhile to help a senior citizen who has lost the ability to multiply numbers accurately?<BR><BR>Well, I think so. I am trying to figure out my plan of action in detail.<BR>And I am just about finished because the amount of time will undoubtedly expire. The last one on the list will not be seen this trip. <BR><BR>One imponderable is when I get to the hotel, check in, and am ready to go sightseeing. If my flight over is like last year, I can forget the first day!!<BR><BR>Hopefully this year will be different, and by noon, I will be ready to go. I can take in one of the places in the first afternoon.<BR><BR>I do need to figure Cluny into my thinking this trip. I had forgotten about it. Perhaps scrap Carnavalet <BR>I fought the French Revolution as a history major until I was tired of rolling heads. The professor I had, a real nut who totally turned me off, got so hung up on that period that we barely got to 1871. We also invaded Russia and cannonballed it at Austerlitz and Marengo and Waterloo until I got fed up there, too.<BR><BR>Incidentally, I just noticed that on the new Michelin #7 map of paris, the name Cemeti&egrave;re du Pere Lachaise is misspelled: It came out Lachaire!!<BR>I did a double take. I might not be able to multiply accurately, but I can still read a little. And sit up and take nourishment.

MaryC

GO BOB!!<BR><BR>Hope you enjoy this year's trip to Paris!!!

Julie

Thanks for all the responses. I'm having similar quandries for a trip to Paris in October, now I won't feel so bad if I miss some of my "must finally do it, this time" entires.

Billyb

Bob: the Carnavalet is not high on the priority list, but the general neighborhood is one of the best in Paris so invariably you will find yourself with an opportunity for a quick visit, if not on this trip then another time. I wouldn't necessarily scrap it, you can easily work it in as it is generally not very crowded....bb

carol

Bob--<BR><BR>I'd rank the Cluny as the #1 attraction on your list, and, if you can, go on a day (usually Sunday, I think)when there's a concert or poetry reading scheduled. They're held in the old baths area and provide a wonderful experience as an adjunct to the Cluny itself. My favorite part of the museum is not the tapestries, but the ancient historical objects on the first floor, which are not to be missed.

Paula

Hi Bob,<BR>Just to add to the confusion...if you are at all interested in the Impressionists and Modern Art, don't miss the Pompidou. Not only is the permanent collection excellent, so are the views, and the place itself is great fun.<BR>Whatever you decide, get a museum card so you don't have to wait in long lines and to save $. For sell at some Metro stops and the museums themself.