For those that enjoy a smoke with their pint you better go to Scotland during 2005 as it was announced that effective Jan 1. 2006 all smoking in public places (and what is more public than a pub?) will be banned and strictly enforced with massive fines for both publicans and clients.

I no longer smoke so no big deal to me but it will certainly impact lots of you. Still seems that the pub and cafe owners/managers should be the ones that make these decisions.

Their loss, however, I wouldn't go somewhere that's all non-smoking, it lacks character, it's too sterile. Even if you don't like smoke you will have to agree it gives a place character. The risk from passive smoking is minimal.

A cigar once or twice a year won't have any impact on your health, and nor will a packet of cigarettes... I'm sure you'll argue with me on that one, so I'm not even suggesting that that is based on medical grounds.

Remember not too long ago when there was a lot of wailing, whining, conjecture, etc., about how the smoking ban in Ireland "would never work?"

I gather that it did, or at least has held firm. Just goes to prove the old adage that, "eventually, everbody stops smoking."

Well as for a little second-hand smoke won't hurt you - may not you but will the staff who has to work in it all day. The NYTimes article on the Scottish smoking ban says that fears in Ireland and NY City that smoking bans would decimate patronage prooved wrong as pubs supposedly now attract more folks than before as many were put off by the smoke. Norway, the Netherlands and Sweden have imminent bans in the works. (One wonders how Dutch coffeeshops, where cannabis is sold legally would be effected by such a ban!) Mayor 'Red'Ken Livingstone is striving for such a ban in London and 65% of Londoners polled support him, though less than 50% approve of extending it to pubs. Liverpool has recently passed such a law. I read that one reason Paris' new Starbucks shop is so incredibly mobbed is not by tourists but by locals seeking a smoke-free environment. The Scottish ban also applies to private clubs, so is far-reaching. Also read the other day that if you live in Milan, Italy you 'smoke' the equivalent of 2 packs of fags a day just by breathing the polluted air! anyway hats off to the Scots and in the not-to-far future the civilized world will learn that your freedom to smoke ends at my nostrils! And the pale of stale smoke that permeates my clothes when i return from my favorite local negates any 'ambience' that smoke may lend to pubs.

My dear, stale smoke on clothes isn't pleasant, but woolen pieces just need to be aired for a day or two, and/or drycleaned.

People are too health conscious these days. Eighty year olds are joining gyms and going on diets, how much longer do they want to live?

MK2, you don't know what you are talking about.

It's not that 80 year olds want to live a few more years but 20 yr old pub staff that don't want to increase their chances of dying prematurely that is the crux of the matter. Patrons can chose to go to a smoky pub, employees cannot. In a few years the idea that smokers were allowed to impact health of others will be considered a barbaric idea. The article I read also contained what i think was an absurd claim by insurance groups in Scotland that such a ban, as they claim it has in Eire, cause ana increase in house fires and people smoke more at home!

Well done Ireland and Scotland, hopefully the Welsh can soon do the same thing !!
I am sick and tired of stinking of cigarettes everytime I visit a pub.
I even eat my lunch at my desk as the smoking area in work stinks and strays into the non smoking area.

Muck

"Eighty year olds are joining gyms and going on diets, how much longer do they want to live?"

Perhaps they want to remain mobile and healthy while they're still alive. Foolish, isn't it?

Muck, you just said on another thread that we should all be more tolerant of each other. Why are you so intolerant of smokers? Okay, I was just ribbing you, but do you see how funny it looks?

My husband is VERY allergic to cigarette smoke, so going to bars and such in Boston was somewhat of an ordeal for his sinuses! Thankfully Massachusetts has banned smoking in all public places. Going out for a drink now is SO nice . . . I don't care about character, I just want a smoke-free place to relax with my man!

Hi Hansikday,
We should be more tollerant that is true, but being more tollerant doesn't mean we have to accept being trampled over -does it?
If I was to stand next to a diner and fart loudly whilst he or she were eating (which I did once lol)I am sure they would have something to say about it, like wise I hate having to share my air with tobacco.
I am not against smoking only rooms, with good extraction smokers can puff away and kill themselves to their hearts content without bothering me at all.

Muck

Muck, I know what you mean.

I also hate having smoke blown in my face while dining, or really anywhere. And I'm afraid I'm not too tolerant in that regard, having spoken up on many occasions. Thankfully, the number of smokers is getting fewer each year.
Poor things!

I've never been to Scotland, and it is among the places I'd like to visit pretty soon. Now I'm glad I waited, and I'll wait just a little more. I don't care who smokes, but being around smoke really makes me sick, so once the ban is in effect and enforced, I'll be happy to have more places where I can visit or eat without risking the headaches, coughs, blocked airways, and other unpleasant physical reactions to exces smoke. Unlike Greece, or even France and Italy in the warmer seasons, Scotland is probably not a place where I'd opt to eat meals outdoors, so I'd probably have to avoid restaurants altogether if they were smokey. Just imagining places and people who don't stink makes Scotland sound more appealing to me.

Very funny, Hansikday, considering the fact that you "blow smoke" almost every time you post something here!

I think for the most part, banning the smoking in public places is a good idea.

Having a nice meal in front of us in a restaurant in Budapest recently, a group of 20 or so German business people wander in, all of them puffing like chimneys. I could barely *see* the food in front of me. Eyes watering and burning. Pretty miserable. And I AM a smoker... well, off and on these days.

I do get the character thing though. There's no such thing as a blues club, for instance, that's not a smoky dive. I can't explain why.

topboy, please explain your remarks.

Is your anger just a natural by-product of your leftist political views and an excessive determination to prevent all viewpoints from being heard?

Scotland? - that's another one off my holiday list along with Norway and Malta. I totally empathise with non-smokers as nearly everyone I go out with is a non-smoker but from a purely selfish point of view I don't think I could handle the the hassle on holidays. Being from Ireland, I like to at least be able to go on holidays and indulge in my nasty little habit. I don't even go out that much here anymore. Too much bother to have herself giving out everytime I slip out for a ciggie, leaving her twiddling her thumbs. Overall though I'd say the ban is working here but I hope for the Scots sake they have a more leniant approach. Obviously us smokers are in a minority so there's no point trying to beat the system but I still reckon a compromise of some sorts would be welcome by both sides.

"that's another one off my holiday list along with Norway and Malta."

marcus, why Malta? I was in Malta last July, and people were smoking as usual.

Countries off your list will soon include Ireland, Scotland (ok part of UK) Norway, Sweden, Netherlands and probably all of London. Plan to trip in the future in Italy and Spain, no doubt the last two to fall as they inevitably will.