Craigellachie

Could I stir it a bit and recommend that you give the West Highland Way and all other "official" long distance paths a big body swerve? These were an English invention needlessly imported, and that was even before our own Parliament passed a law giving everyone the right of responsible access to the countryside. From your comments I think you can handle yourself, a map and a compass without needing a picture book, sign posts and a thousand other people to show you the way. Seriously, you sound like someone who would get much more out of choosing your own routes. Invest in a couple of good quality guidebooks - the Scottish Mountaineering Club district guides are great for everything from rough stuff walking to dangling upside down on a rope. The Central Highlands guide covers the area around Fort William and Glencoe, there's a separate one for Skye and the other islands.
I recommend the Undiscovered Scotland site (no relation to the Bill Murray book). Its coverage of the country is a bit patchy, but the for places it does cover it hads loads of good stuff.
I don't know how easy it would be by public transport, but to get across to Skye check out the hill road to Glenelg and the wee ferry across to Kylerhea on the south of the island. I've heard good reports from the Glenelg Inn as a place to stay though I've never been there myself. On the steep road out of Kylerhea there's a hide where you're alomst guaranteed to see otters.

Nelson

Craigellachie, thanks much for the suggestion. The idea of the long distance walk was appealing because of the "you don't have to think about anything" aspect of it. You do your walk each day, your baggage is magically transported to the next town, you explore, have dinner, some drinks, sleep, and do it again. You stay out of any motorized transport, which I spend entirely too much time in my daily life!

That said, basing ourselves in a nice inn or lodge for several days, and doing day trips out of there has great appeal as well, and we are *possibly* leaning in that direction now. There does seem to be a lot of good information out there - online and in books - for hiking in the highlands. We would be well equipped and sensitive to the whims of mountain weather.

Yesterday I ordered from amazon "The Rough Guide to Scotland" (good reviews on amazon), Fitzroy MacLean's "Scotland Concise History", (recommended on this thread), and "Scotland the Best!: The One True Guide" (excellent reviews on amazon). We are still roughing out a general plan, and presumably these books will help, as has this thread and online research. There are also several Rambler guides available, including one just for Skye, and I may pick one of those up once we settle on our trip.

Anyway to come full circle, here is a possible new itinerary, much different than the one that opened this thread!

1) Spend a couple of days in Edinburgh upon arrival.
2) Travel to Inverness, a day or so there, perhaps (Cawdor Castle seems worth seeing, and I collect old mountaineering books and Inverness apparently has the biggest antiquarian bookstore in Scotland)
3) Travel to Kyle of Lochalsh by train. Spend a few days in a hotel on that side of the bridge, hiking, visiting Eilean Donan Castle. Your Glenelg Inn seems nice, and the Kintail Lodge looks good as well.
4) Get to Skye and rent a car. Spend most of a week on Skye, hiking, castle touring, brewery, etc.
5) Return to Edinburgh for 3 or more days before departing.

So, we are up to Plan B. There may be Plan C, D and beyond before we are done.

Nelson

Thanks to everyone who replied! Here is the current plan, still subject to change without notice.

1) Couple of days in Edinburgh.
2) Train to Fort William, one night there, then Jacobite train to Mallaig, ferry to Skye.
3) Two days in Sleat / Armadale.
4) Six days self-guided walking to Portree. This is offered by easyways.com. I have an e-mail inquiry out to them, waiting on reply. We might spend an extra night in Sligachan to attempt a hike up an easy peak.
5) An extra day or two in Portree for further touring: Dunvegan, Talisker Distillery, shopping.
6) Couple of days by Kyle for Eileen Donan Castle and perhaps another hike (Five Sisters of Kintail?)
7) Train to Inverness, couple of days there, Cawdor Castle.
8) Train to Edinburgh, three more days there.

Further comments / suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks, Nelson

sheila

Given what you want to do, I think that's pretty top.

Stay outside Inverness, tho'

Dingwall to the north or Nairn to the south are on the rail lines.

Nelson

At the risk of looking like a rather complete fool (neither the first nor, no doubt, the last time) I am re-opening this thread with a yet another totally new itinerary. We have been pouring over guidebooks, glossy brochures from the Scottish Tourism folks, and assorted websites this weekend. We have now decided to scrap the long-distance walk idea because there is just too much to see elsewhere in the darn country!

Here is the latest:

Day 1-3) Edinburgh
Day 4) Train to Fort William, overnight there,
Day 5) Jacobite train to Mallaig, ferry to Skye, pick up rental car.
Day 6-9) Skye, day walking and touring as the weather and spirit move us, hopefully attempt hike up Bla Behinn, weather permiting.
Day 10-12) Plockton, visiting Eileen Donan one day, hike Five Sisters of Kintail another day. Late afternoon train to Nairn the third day.
Day 13-15) Nairn, visit Cawdor & Brodie Castles, distillery tour, etc.
Day 16-17) Train to Stonehaven, stopping there to visit Dunnottar Castle, and to see all the seabirds in the region.
Day 18-21) Back in Edinburgh, day trip to Roslin somewhere during this time. Perhaps other day trips as well.
Day 22) Fly home dreaming about the next trip, which maybe will include a long distance walk!

Comments, criticism are welcome.

Canajoharie

Hi Nelson,

I have enjoyed reading this thread especially your last post where you said that you have changed your itinerary. We are planning a trip to Scotland in September and I have already changed our focus several times.

I keep trying to narrow down where we will go, but then I find more places where we want to spend time!

I did notice you mentioned Plockton, I have been trying to figure out if we don't stay at Flodigary, do we stay in the village of Portree or in the village of Plockton? Plockton was recently mentioned to me on another thread as a really pretty village, so I was wondering why you chose it?

Canajoharie

Dschoening

Nelson, just a couple of comments: if you are not going to have a car in Edinburgh (which I don't recommend!) on your second stay there - and you want to go to Rosslyn Chapel, we liked our 1/2 day Timberbush tour there last Oct. (timberbushtours.com) Generally, we do NOT do tours.

Also, just my opinion, but Eilean Donan is very picturesque from the outside, but I would not recommend seeing the inside. It is a collection of many different eras, there is still a family which uses the house, and there are many other castles in Scotland better worth your touring time and money.

For furnished castles, we liked Stirling, Blair, amd Cawdor; but the real gem we saw was the ruined castle of Linlithgow right outside of Edinburgh http://www.aboutscotland.com/linlith/two.html and we spent hours climbing about there.

Of course, everyone has their own castle expectations - it's a very personal thing!

Your trip does sound wonderful though. We especially liked the Five Sisters, and changed our driving itinerary so we could see them twice: once on the way to Skye, and once leaving.

Dorothy

Libby123

Hi, I agree with the suggestion that 3 nights in Inverness is a bit much. I wasn't that impressed with it. Other suggestions in that general area are St. Andrew's and other small towns along the coast. I took buses to get there, had no trouble getting around. I also second the idea of the Isle of Skye-it really is beautiful. Another idea; perhaps crazy because it's really out of the way, is to consider the Orkney Islands. It's far but very different and has many ancient ruins, etc. Just a suggestion.

janisj

Libby123: You should read the entire thread - now they aren't planning on staying in Inverness at all (a good decision IMHO)

Nelson: I love your new plan. The only teensy changes I'd make are

1) keep the car all the way until you get back to Edinburgh. That would give you a lot more flexibility for Stonehaven/Dunnottar, Glamis, maybe Edzell.

And 2) cut one day/night from your second Edinburgh stay. Use that time to stay in Fife. Visit St Andrews, Falkland and a couple of the fishing villages. If you had 2 days in Fife you could take a boat trip out to the Isle of May. But then you'd be cutting maybe too much from Edinburgh.

Then on your drive to Edinburgh make a detour to Roslin. Then drop the car in Edinburgh and spend the remainder of your time there.

sheila

If you stick with that plan- which I think is fine- can I suggest that you stay at the St Leonard's Hotel in Stonehaven, and get them to organise a taxi or something for your castle/birds trip.

It's about 2 miles up to Dunottar- perfectly doable- but the best sea cliffs for the birds are at Crawton, another few miles south, and that would be a hell of a hike. I'm not certain if there's a path all the way round the cliff top or if you'd have to do it on the road- blech!

Mind you, the RSPB do boat trips out of Stonehaven Harbour for about 6 weeks at that time of year.

Another thought about the hills. Bla Bheinn, being a mere Red Cuiliin, is reasonably easy. The Five Sisters is not technically hard, but it's steep and long- and you have to get back. Get a good guide book. Email me for a recommendation.

Nelson

Thanks once again for all the great advice and suggestion. I owe you folks a round at a Scottish pub someday.

Canajoharie, we chose Plockton because the guidebooks, and the other thread you mentioned on this site, all give it very high marks. Photos online look very nice. It also has reasonably good access to Eileen Donan, the Five Sisters and other hikes in the area. Note that we will also be staying in Skye (possibly Portree) for a few days. Our reasoning here is that northern Skye and Plockton are sufficiently far apart to both warrant some time. In general this area is relatively hard to get to, so once having put the effort in to get there it appears to be worth a decent chunk of time. Also staying longer increases the odds of getting at least some non-rainy hours! I don't think we will be bored up there, or regret the time.

Dorothy, We will definitely not have a car in Edinburgh. For our trip to Rosslyn Chapel it appears we can just jump on a bus, no problem. Based on your suggestion we took another look at Linlithgow and seeing that it is only 30 minutes by train I feel reasonably sure that will be one of our day trips. In fact since that puts us halfway to Stirling, perhaps we can hit both Stirling and Linlithgow castles on the same day. That may be a lot for one day though.

Thanks also for your comments about Eileen Donan. It certainly is picturesque from the outside, but we expecting crowds and such. We should be able to arrive at opening hour and avoid much of that, then even return for evening photography, which is apparently when it is in the best light. But we'll have a contingency plan if we leave the castle early. Tea houses, bakeries, and pubs are always good contingency plans!

Janis, We debated the car idea a lot, and having one is a two edge sword to us. The greater flexibility is a huge bonus, but it comes at the cost of higher expense and the need to do a lot of road navigation. We might not get lost (and getting lost can be fun anyway), but there are so many wonderful sites right near the train lines that we decided to forego the car except in the Skye region. There is a company up there (I have yet to contact) who apparently will deliver the car to you at the Mallaig ferry, then we can return it at Kyle before boarding the train to Nairm - perfectly fitting into our plans.

So, yes, we miss Fife and those wonderful sounding villages Like Craill, but that's an acceptable tradeoff for us.

Sheila, coincidentally I had found and bookmarked the St. Leonard's hotel yesterday. You are right that we were planning to walk the coast from Stonehaven to Dunnotar, but I had read the best birds were further south, so hadn't worked all that out yet. Will investigate.

I chose Bla Bheinn, mere status or not, because it is relatively easy and perhaps my wife would make that hike. (By the way, she is a good walker and was on the summit of Kilimanjaro exactly one year ago this week!). For The Five Sisters I have contacted a guide in the region - I would not want to set out on that alone - and that seems to be working out. But I will E-mail you for your recommendations.

Thanks again everyone.

sheila

Nelson, if you have aguide, don't let me interfere. Sounds like you'll have a ball.

Craigellachie

Nelson,
Have a plan B (or are you up to plan Q by now?) in case the weather on the day makes it silly to try and climb Bla Bheinn on Skye. Some of the lower and less well known hills on the island are good standbyes when the bigger hills are blanketed in mist. McLeod's Tables, Beinn na Caillich, the Storr, even humble Beinn Tianavaig near Portree (not very high, but DB had her best ever view of a golden eagle here) will all repay your time.

Nelson

Craigellachie, thanks for the further information.

We pretty much stopped at plan C, which is mentioned above, and as of this morning, coincidentally, all of our accommodation is now booked. To recap:

1) 2 days Edinburgh
2) Travel Fort William, overnight there.
3) Jacobite train, ferry to Skye, pick up rental car, overnight Broadford.
4) Attempt Bla Bheinn, weather gods permitting. I have hired a guide.
5) Four nights in Portree, activities dependant upon weather and our whims, plenty of options (thanks again!). <b>By good fortune we will be there during the annual Pipe Band Festival!</b>
6) Two nights in Plockton. Eileen Donan castle. Attempt traverse of Five Sisters of Kintail one day, again with guide. Return rental car at Kyle.
7) Three nights in Nairn. Visit Cawdor and Elgin, at least.
8) Two nights Stonehaven, Dunnottar castle, the bird sanctuary.
9) Four more nights Edinburgh.

We're happy with the itinerary. Somewhat more travel than we would normally go for, but as I mentioned elsewhere there is too darn much to see in Scotland!

sheila

Tips:-

1.book lunch at the Three Chimneys on Skye

2. take or buy ear plugs

3. Have a ball.

Nelson

Sheila, you have something against pipe bands?

Thanks again for all your help everyone. I think our original plan of a long distance walk would have been a fun and memorable trip, but this one will give us a much better view of Scotland's diverse landscape and historical sites, and also be a very fun and memorable trip.

noe847

I know that you have your itinerary pretty well set, but I thought I'd comment. I second (or third) the sentiment that Eilean Dunan is stunning from the outside but a huge disappointment inside. It was rebuilt without thought to historical accuracy, so is someone's idea of &quot;castle&quot; (apparently they turned up some sort of original plans after the reconstruction wsa finished). I wouldn't go out of the way to see it, and if going near it I would just take some exterior photos and be done with it. There are so many castles in Scotland - your very excellent &quot;Scotland the Best&quot; guidebook will have lists of the best castles. In fact, that book has never led us astray in three trips to Scotland. I know that you have cut out Inverness, but if you ever get up that way, Glen Affric is spectacular - some rare original (and re-grown) Scots pines landscapes. It's almost primeval in feel. I think it backs up to the Five Sisters (?)

Oh, and we will take our third trip this summer that is primarily connected to pipe band competitions!

Nelson

noe847,

Thanks for the info and suggestions. Based largely on what we have read here, we are thinking that Eileen Donan will mostly be an exterior photo op, although we will no doubt go inside. From what I've seen it appears that the best time for photos would be late afternoon or evening with a high tide, so I'll see if we can manage that. (Sheila, do you have connections for arranging a high tide just after castle closing hours?!)

Our expectations, to the extent that we have them, are that we will enjoy Cawdor and Dunnottar a lot more, not to mention Linlithgow Palace and Edinburgh Castle. &quot;Scotland the Best&quot; gives high marks to Brodie Castle, so we may try to squeeze that in while at Nairn.

Funny you mention Glen Affric. That was about the last thing on our list to get cut as we were making our decisions. It's not likely we'll get there this trip, but who knows?

Enjoy the pipe bands. The one on Skye is July 1. Don't forget your ear plugs!

noe847

We will be going to Bridge of Allan on August 5 and the World Pipe Band Championships on Glasgow Green on August 12 - my children play in bands that will be competing at those. I don't find we need earplugs for the outdoor events; it's when the bands play indoors that it gets a bit loud!

Do put Glen Affric on your list for the next trip. We made a short visit to the Glen in 1999 on our first trip to Scotland (purely sightseeing). Our later trips have been consumed with the pipe band itinerary (3 weeks of performing and competing) with just the odd day or two off. We made a point of heading back to Glen Affric this past summer on our two free days - we stayed at the Tomich Hotel, which is located at a wide spot in the road with a handful of cottages and a part time post office. We were there when the bookmobile from Inverness was arrived. Now that was excitement! We did a nice day hike in Glen Affric and had the place to ourselves - spectacular views.

We have always wanted to hike the Five Sisters, so I will be very interested to know how that goes for you. My husband did Ben Nevis with a guide in 2003 in driving rain (the guide kept him from getting lost in the clag). I elected to stay in front of the fire in our hotel in Spean Bridge with a cup of tea and a good book - didn't want to hold them back. Or so I said!

sheila

noe, if we ever drive round Scotland together, remind me not to let you navigate!!

Affric has many postive attributes, but backing up to the Five Sisiters of Kintail isn't one of them.

OTOH you seem to have mastered the local dialect! (I suspect that's the first time anyoe's used the word &quot;clag&quot; on this Board.

Nelson, on the other hand, you could easily manage trip in on the way to Nairn, or on a day trip from there. It is lovely and VERY special habitat

I can mange a high tide about closing time for you- about twice a month. Will that do?