Faith_travels

Hi again Yelpir,

All of the planning you have done and all the details you have shown will be a big help for you and others for their trips too, (including myself, so thank you so much!). I know you have gotten lots of grief on how you have planned things, seemingly impossible to do, but I can also see that you are aware that you don't expect to be able to do each and everything according to the timetables. Being you have put so much into it and are very organised, you clearly will be all set to get the most out of the possible outings you have set.

I trust you and your lady friend will have a beautiful experience full of endless unforgettable memories of Scotland.

Best wishes, Faith

Yelpir

janisj: "You think we are poor dumb schmucks who don't know anything - we don't drive, we don't like scenery, we don't know how to plan, and we don't know ANYTHING about getting around Scotland. You dismiss us w/ "I understand that most people don't like road trips." Sheesh!!

You are stuck in what you know and are not willing to listen to those of us who have been there/done that. The thing is - we are all trying to help but you think we are being obstructionists. Good luck to you sir."

I am deeply sorry that you have taken my remarks so personally and interpretted them as insulting. It has never been my intention to insult anyone here.
To those people who citicised me for not spending enough time on history and culture I explained that I was more interested in scenery.
To those people who criticised me for spending too much time driving I explained that I enjoy road trips.
To those people who criticised me for military style scheduling I explained how and why I plan the way I do.
Now I am being accused of not being prepared to listen. I would like to explain that, over the last four months, I have listened attentively to all the advice that I have been given and have refined my itinerary countless times, based upon what I have been told. Now all my bookings have been made and I am 3 1/2 weeks from departure for the UK. I no longer have much flexibility. I will still fine tune what I can fine tune, based upon the advice I get but to be told at this stage that my whole itinerary is insane is not helpful. I have to travel from Callander to Fionnphort in one day. I no longer have a choice. My accommodation at both ends is booked and the ferry is booked and paid for. The same applies from Mull to Skye. It is not that I don't want to listen. I will listen to any advice that is practical within my constraints.

rogeruktm: "Also, I am 69, and I don't use my age as a crutch to my plans. I do hope you enjoy your trip and don't become upset if you fall a minute or so off schedule. My last plea is to spend a little more on food. If you are short of funds why not delay this trip and put more money aside?"

I referred to our ages, not as a crutch to our plans, but to explain why we do not include hiking in our plans. Fitness level is an important factor in choosing types of activities on holidays. We did not go bungy jumping in New Zealand, for instance.
I will only get upset if we fall far enough behind schedule to miss a ferry or to have to wake up our hosts late at night. Otherwise I am pretty relaxed about the schedules.
Delaying the trip at this stage is not an option. The hire car is prepaid and not changeable/cancellable. The flights are prepaid and not changeable/cancellable. The ferries are prepaid.

anna_roz: "It is kind of silly that first you ask 'what do you think-how does this sound' and then 'I am doing what I want to do because I know better.'"
Not helpful. In this thread I did not actually ask for advice (go back and reread it). I posted the itinerary for the benefit of Faith_travels who asked for my detailed itinerary. There are two preceding, extremely long, threads in which I both asked for and listened to advice. That is not to say that I would not still listen to advice that I can use, given my constraints at this late stage.

"As far as posting your itinerary for the benefit of other travelers, I do not see how it would be of help to anyone. It really is quite insane."
I would say that that would be up to them to decide. Wouldn't you?

AnnRiley: Thank you for your kind words. I have heard it said that the best part of any holiday is the looking forward and the looking back. The holiday itself is simply something that flashes past somewhere between the two
Maybe there is some truth in that. I know that before a 2 week trip I spend about 4 months planning and after the holiday I spend months editing my videos and photographs. The holiday itself does seem to be the shortest part of the process but I guess it is the most important

Faith_travels: If my itinerary helps you in any way then I am glad that I posted it. Plan the type of holiday that you most enjoy.
There are people on this forum who are extremely knowledgeable and are kind enough to share that knowledge with us. If you need advice from them just ask. I'm sure they will be happy to help.
Have a lovely trip

Yelpir

"If my schedule is over-ambitious it is because I am like a child in a candy shop. I simply cannot leave any of it behind. I will drive as many miles as it takes to reach a scene of epic beauty that will make my eyes water in delight. I'm sorry, people, but I'm not giving up one inch of it, no matter what the cost in terms of driving."

Please don't interpret this as arrogance. It is simply poetic licence. What I mean by that last line is that each place on the route through the northwest has been lovingly chosen after lengthy research as a 'must see' location and it would be very difficult for me to sacrifice any of them. I want to drive those backroads through the northwest of Scotland more than I want to do any other part of this trip. I am prepared to make the sacrifice of driver fatigue in order to do it. I accept, of course, that on the day it may rain heavily and wash out my plans but that is in the hands of fate.
In a previous incarnation of the itinerary I actually cut out the northwest in order to reduce the number of one night stands but I felt so unhappy about it that I was forced to put it back. I have adjusted now to losing the Western Islands but that was a hard decision to make.

Yelpir

By the way, in case anyone needs to know, Jane and John Noddings of the Seaview B&B, Fionnphort, give the drive time from Craignure to Fionnphort as 45 to 60 minutes.

caroline_edinburgh

Yelpir, I and I'm sure most others here understand that this is your holiday and this is the way you like to do it. It's not my sort of holiday but I respect the fact that it's yours. We all just don't want you to have a disappointing or stressful time and so are (most of us) trying to make helpful suggestions. You have put a lot of work into your planning and you and your lady friend deserve to have a nice time. I also enjoy spending up to a year beforehand planning my hols though in a different way.

I second the poster who said you have responded well to criticism and that most people would have flown off the handle by now. Please stay with us !

A couple more wee suggestions.

I believe B&Bs will often prepare a packed lunch for you - so you could check how much they'd charge & maybe arrange to have one ready for you to take with you. It may be as cheap as buying something from a shop, would probably be nicer & will save you time finding somewhere to buy stuff from. Settling your bill the night before is a good idea, if you can. In my (admittedly limited) experience of B&Bs the 'breakfast room' is usually the owner's kitchen so may not be available to you in the evening. Other posters have made a good point though, that you will usually be able to get a pub meal & £8 or sometimes less. Someone else mentioned home made soup in pubs (plus cafes, team rooms, vistor centres etc), which I agree is usually nice and makes a good light lunch (usually served with nice bread).

Glencoe isn't really a town although there is a small village. What most people mean by visiting Glencoe is just driving through the glen in all its wild beauty; maybe going to the visitor centre (not in the village, just by the side of the road), for some - and hillwalking for others. If you don't fancy the visitor centre (and I wouldn't necessarily) I'm sure you are quite capable of reading up on some basic Scottish history before or while you travel - it will help explain why the landscape is the way it is. (I apologise if you've already done this, as you may well have - I don't mean to seem patronising.) To me visiting Glencoe means being driven to the Clachaig Inn & enjoying the view from there

In case you haven't seen it elsewhere, here are the cheapest options from my list of recommendations for eating in Edinburgh.

Incredibly cheap quick food, when you are out & about - a) the Mosque, Chapel Street/West Nicholson St (1-7pm I think, except Fridays), for more curry & rice/naan etc than you can eat for £3 (meat & veggie) - outdoors eating, though, so no fun if cold or wet; b) Palmyra on Nicholson Street - £2.80/£3.80 for vg chicken shwarma with salad in flatbread, or even cheaper veggie ones like feta or baba ganoush (we anticipate eating there several evenings after the International Fesival starts next weekend !).

I can't comment on how long your last day's driving will take but I would not drive into the city then back out to the airport in the rush hour - what I'd do is drop the car at the airport first then get the bus into town. Unless it will be impossible for you to carry your bags from the bus stop to the B&B ?

(How are you getting back to the airport when you leave, btw - I see you have it costed at £8 ? The bus is £3 single / £5 return pp. A taxi from where you are staying will probably cost c.£15 in total. The newish 'Edinburgh Shuttle' (which I haven't tried) is £9pp so for 2, probably more expensive than a taxi from where you are staying.)

On your final day you won't really have 2 hours for sightseeing and shopping - it will take you at least (depending on exactly where you are going) the best part of half an hour each way into town and back, so you'll only have an hour. I'd say allow half an hour to walk from your B&B to the bus stop and get the bus to Princes Street - you could be lucky and do it in 20 minutes, but might not be.

Yelpir

Thank you, Caroline, for your always helpful suggestions

I will ask each B&B whether or not they will pack lunch for us and how much they will charge. Nice idea, thanks.

Tea rooms in visitor centres is also a good idea. I believe the food is reasonably priced there.

That's a little gem of information about the view from the Clachaig Inn. We may not be able to afford to eat there but we can surely enjoy the view from outside

We drive into Edinburgh on a Sunday which is why I thought to drop off my lady at the B&B with the luggage before dropping off the car at the airport and coming back in by bus on my own. I would have dropped the car at the station, but the Hertz depot is not open on Sundays. Hopefully the traffic won't be too bad on a Sunday?

We will be taking a leisurely drive through Glen Coe to enjoy the scenery. The 30 minute stop in Glencoe was just a chance for a comfort break and to grab a sandwich and a cuppa. (BTW, how available are public facilities in Scotland? Both my lady and I need reasonably frequent comfort breaks).

Don't worry, I do not regard you as in any way patronising. I have read the Rough Guide to Scotland from cover to cover (twice). It contains quite a lot of Scottish history so I am well steeped in the history of the church on Iona, Bonny Prince Charlie, The Jacobian Uprising, The battle of Culloden, Rob Roy, William Wallace, the clearances and so on. When I travel I carry the book with me and every night I read up on the places we are going to pass through the next day so that I can appreciate what we are seeing.

Thank you so much for your list of cheap eating places in Edinburgh. It will come in really useful.

On the final day we plan to walk from the B&B to the A8 (not far) and take the bus to the airport. I must have read somewhere that the fare was 4 pounds a head. If it's only 3 pounds that's even better.

I'm sorry that I forgot to answer an earlier question of yours. I am from South Africa and my lady friend is from Australia. We meet up at Heathrow before setting out.

The day trips from Callander basically came from www.incallander.co.uk (drive 1 and drive 4). If I recall correctly, they were compiled by a chap who lives around there and drives them regularly. I adapted them slightly to fit our timing and interests.

Anyway, once again, thank you for your kind assistance

GreenDragon

Yelpir - Relax, we just really want you to enjoy your trip, and not miss out on all Scotland has to offer.

As for me being inspiration, yikes! Seriously, that trip could have taken much longer, or much shorter. I made sure there was plenty of time for the trip from Orkney to Lewis. All day, in fact - we left at 5am got there after 7pm.

I hear you about seeing scenery, but do treat yourself to one inside castle. Not Eilan Donan : ) Dunvegan castle gardens are particularly lovely.

You do the vacation as you see fit. I think you are actually doing it like I did - figure out what we CAN do, at the very edge of possibility, and then when we get there, choose what we must do, which is a much smaller number of items.

You will have a wonderful time, regardless.

caroline_edinburgh

Yelpir, you are most welcome.

You are right that Sunday traffic is not so bad as other days, but driving to the airport is still a lot easier than driving to the station so you are dropping the car at the best place ! I guess you can see how you are doing for time - if you're pushed, you can just go straight to the airport & both get the bus from there.

I'm afraid to say that public loos are not thick on the ground in rural areas. Some villages have them but many don't. Most petrol stations do, although you may have to ask for the key & they may not be great - still, it's an option when you are filling up. Visitor centres have loos as well as cafes, of course - as do museums and the like. Oh, and the biggest supermarkets. If you're desperate the best thing is probably to go to a pub and buy the cheapest possible drinks - something like two halves of lemonade - so you can use theirs. Have you got a driving atlas yet or are you getting one here ? Check that - it may show public loos, although I don't remember seeing them on the ones I've used. I wonder if anyone's set up a website with this info ? It would be useful.

I should have guessed you might from from SA, since you seem to be up at similar hours to me !

noe847

Yelpir, a few random notes:

You can see the absolutely beautiful scenery of Glen Coe from your car as you drive through. I've never seen the traffic move very quickly in the Glen. There are a few places that you can pull over and take some photos. I would plan to stop at the Info Centre to use the facilities (even if you don't watch the film), as there are really very few places along the roadside.

From Callendar to Glen Coe, a good stop for fuel, toilets, and food is the Green Wellie Stop in Tyndrum. It's a touristy rest stop and assorted shops, but very efficient. The outdoors shop there is actually quite nice.

As you drive up the big hill from Crainlarich to Rannoch Moor, pause to look back - I love the view down that hill. Also the vista across Rannoch Moore is worth a stop-and-shoot.

As far as Stirling goes, you can get some nice views of the hill with the castle from the roads outside of town. It may be difficult to stop on the motorway, however! There are some pretty views down over the town and surrounding countryside from the car park at the top of Stirling - just outside the castle.

If you do have time on your Trossachs day, drive back along Loch Voil past Rob Roy's grave. It's single track, and a bit nervewracking, but a very pretty loch.

Based on our visit in 1999, the Scottish Wool Centre is not really worth a stop, especially given your interests and schedule. My young daughters enjoyed the hokey show and the staged displays of highland culture (one piper, two highland dancers, one heavy athlete, etc) on the grounds.

In Pitlochry, you might enjoy the short and not strenuous circuit walk to the bridge and salmon ladder - the views along the river are quite nice. Otherwise the town is full of souvenir and tartan shops (and lots of tourists) which don't match your interests. The public toilets are near the main visitor car park. Outside of town a mile or two is The Edradour, Scotland's smallest distillery which enjoys a pretty hillside setting.

Your planning process is interesting and I will be curious to see how it works out for you. Will you come back and report? And post a picture link?? Anyway, on some of your days you might find that you have time for little else besides the drive and the comfort breaks, but the drive *will* be beautiful.

On our first Scotland trip - a driving trip - I ended up being the driver for most of the time. I'm also the photographer, so I had the camera in my lap and when I saw something I wanted to stop for I'd look for a pull-over place and shoot out the window! It was less stressful than saying to my husband "stop here!" as he drove. His main interest is in the natural features of terrain, especially mountains, and he was freed up to study the topo maps and look at the hills as we drove.

AnnRiley

Yelpir, You are very welcome, i too have been on the side of a 'battering' from people when asking what to me were relevant questions, so now i take them with a pinch of salt, though some still sting!!

On the food issue, the chain pubs more than independants often do 'pensioner specials' 2 main meals with deserts for @ £7.99 for the 2 of you, (some even throw in a free drink!)

I find nipping in to a pub and looking like im looking for someone or sitting down to read menu etc (cheecky, i know) works then i quietly nip to the loo, because if i buy even a small drink i will want to use loo again..

Also B & B's have come a long way and most have excellent standards, you usually eat breakfast in a small dining room (much like in USA) even if its only for 6 people its still done properly.

I love the organising part of my holiday, and do lots of fine tuning from what people say on foder's, and have changed my route for my upcoming holiday to Colorado more times than i can say.

Hubby now says with a sigh, 'are we still going to Colorado' LOL, when he see's me fine tuning..

You just want to get the best from your time and am sure you will, and lastly, stop apologising to those people who have been a bit OTT in their comments, you owe no one an apology.

Critisim is just one persons opinion,afterall.

janisj

OK - since everyone is now in a lovefest w/ your itinerary -- Let's get down to brass tacks w/ your food budget.

There have been suggestions to get a packed lunch from your B&Bs - that is an absolutely wonderful idea. But unfortunately, it simply will not fit in the budget. Most any B&B will charge £5-£7 for a packed lunch. That will leave you £3-£5 for all your other food - even bought in a supermarket it will be hard to get dinner and a soft drink for £3. (and there are no supermarkets on 90% of your route). Sure there are pubs w/ "senior specials" and there will be the odd pub where you can eat for £5 - but they are few and far between. Unless you just want to have a bowl of soup every night for 12 days - you are underestimating how much you will spend on food.

Linnhe View for instance charges £5 for a packed lunch. The others just say "extra charge". A packed lunch usually includes a sandwich, piece of fruit, a small dessert and sometimes packet of crisps and a soft drink.

And eating dinner at your B&Bs totally out since they are way outside your budget. Seaview for instance charges £18-£22 for dinner in.

I think some folks are feeling sorry for the "abuse" you have received and are trying to make you feel better by soft pedaling how expensive things are.

Meals in visitor centres are not cheap - .90p to £2 for tea. £2 to £3+ for a prepared sandwich. £1.50 - £3+ for a slice of cake. W/o a salad or bowl of soup or packet of crisps you will be up around £6. Again leaving you only £3 or £4 for dinner.

Since you are a "numbers person" you need to look at the real numbers. I would raise your food budget by about 50% for just a bare bones diet.

Now everyone will probably jump on me for "being so negative" - but it really would be a shame for your food budget to run out 8 days into your trip . . . . .

GreenDragon

While the views in any particular area are beautiful, be prepared to not see them. While the sun was peeking out here and there on our drive through Glen Coe, Rannoch Moor was just mist and the heaviest rain we'd seen all trip. All we could see was the back of the truck in front of us, pretty much. With your schedule, there's not much leeway for missing something and coming back to it. An example is my trip to Staffa. If the weather had been fine, I could have done it the afternoon of our first day in Mull. As it was, I couldn't do it until our last afternoon in Mull - it had been canceled the morning as well. If I had only had one day, I wouldn't have seen it.

Same with the Old Man of Storr on Skye - it was too misty to see it, so I never really did, and we had 3.5 days on Skye. Just be prepped to miss something you were looking forward to

historytraveler

Sorry janisj, I'm going to agree with you regarding the food allowance.

Yelpir, janis is absoltely corrrect in her pricing. I missed your food allowance when I first read through your post. I would also advise you to increase it,otherwise you'll either find yourselves spending the extra money anyway, or you'll end up hungry.

Another suggestion is to eat a big breakfast and skip lunch. I do this all the time and just have a cup of tea and scone/cake for an afternoon snack. You could probably get away with bringing your own scones etc. with you to have with the tea.

Regardless your food allowance is going to be extremely difficult to maintain. I wish I could help with suggestions as to places to eat that cheaply, but I can't.

Yelpir

Wow! Thanks so much everyone! There is so much good info here that I am going to cut and paste it into a document that I can print out and take with me. Where do I start?

GreenDragon: I'm sure there will be days when the weather totally ruins all plans for that day and to keep ourselves from going bonkers we will be looking around for an 'inside job' like in a castle or visitor centre.
We are pretty philosophical when we are on the road. If a major attraction gets rained out we simply shrug and move on. In New Zealand it rained the day we went on Milford Sound (big highlight). We still enjoyed it. It rained heavily as we were going through Haast Pass (a really beautiful pass) so we missed it completely. Sad, but you can't have everything. If it's raining hard the day we plan for Bealach na Ba we will bypass Applecross altogether. We will have good days and bad days. If we get to see 50% of what we have planned we will consider ourselves lucky and have a wonderful holiday.

Caroline: This loos thing could become a bit of a problem. I think I need to do some research, though you have given me some good pointers. I seem to remember a book called the "Good Loo Guide". Perhaps I can get hold of a copy somewhere. I remember it being a bit of a problem in Ireland as well. However, by keeping the liquid intake down, we got by.

noe847: Thank you for your excellent tips. Yes, I will definitely come back and give you all a trip report afterwards. I don't currently have a website where I can post pictures, but I will find a way to put them up for everyone to see.
I will be the sole driver and backup photographer. My fine lady is a much better photographer than I am. I am enthusiastic, but amateur. I am inclined to see something beautiful and throw out the anchors to get the shot. I will have to learn to curb that enthusiasm on crowded narrow roads.

AnnRiley: Thanks for the kind words and the food tips. I had a good chuckle at your subtifuge in the pubs. I will look for a crowded pub and give it a try I am very pleased with the B&Bs I have chosen. Most have very good reviews on TripAdvisor and stars from the Scottish Tourist Board. Many have guest lounges and special breakfast rooms.

janisj: Thank you very much for your valuable input regarding the cost of food. I always carry far more money with me on holiday than I want to spend so, if the wheels come off the food budget, it will only mean that I get to spend a lot more than I bargained for. It won't make me happy but we won't starve
We actually eat very little. In New Zealand we survived for 3 weeks on a plate of cereal and a slice of toast for breakfast, a self made sandwich for lunch and a takeaway (a sub or fish and chips) for dinner. We did have cooking facilities so were able to cook up vegetables sometimes or warm up a frozen dinner occasionally. With a really good breakfast we probably won't need much for the other meals but I must confess that it would be really nice to eat out at a restaurant a couple of times.

janisj, I don't think you are being negative; just realistic. Food is expensive in the UK and our budget is REALLY tight. We will probably make it most days by being very careful but where there are no cheap food outlets available we will have to be prepared to spend considerably more.

historytraveller: Yes, we intend to stuff ourselves on the cooked breakfast (I chose only B&Bs that have a reputation for a generous Scottish Breakfast) and, hopefully, we will only need to top up at midday and in the evening

bettyk

Hopefully, neither Yelpir or his lady friend have diabetes, cause the cake/scone thing in the afternoon won't work if you have diabetes like I do. All carbs and no protein = BAD.

While 10 Pounds might sound sufficient, it certainly doesn't go far in the UK or in Europe. While we are in no way "foodies" and usually will share entres when possible, we still find ourselves spending at least $30 per person per day if not more. And I remember food being a little pricey when we were in the Uk and Scotland in 2004 -- even in pubs.

janisj

yelpir, yelpir, yelpir: There are almost no takeaway's in the places you are going. You will go miles and miles and miles w/o seeing anyplace to stop to eat, let alone a place for takeaway fish and chips (nor places to pee for that matter). You will be in the most rural of areas and they will charge accordingly since the options are very limited.

I can just see the headline in the Scotsman now - &quot;<i><b>Old couple dies of dehydration - afraid to drink because there were no loos on their route</b></i>&quot;

GreenDragon

hehe .. janisj is right - we remember searching around for someplace to eat in Stenness, and the ONLY place that served any kind of food was the Standing Stones hotel. Decent enough pub food, but rather expensive.

pittpurple

Hi Yelpir,

With what you're looking for, I don't think you'll go much over budget on food - we have eaten for less here with some creativity. You'll have a huge breakfast and with some snacks in the car you will be fine until dinner - and 10 pounds for a dinner will be fine in my opinion. There are some good points made about the areas you'll be in though - I might check with the B&amp;B owners if you have been emailing anyway - you could always pick up extras at the grocery store for dinner one night and spend the extra the next night depending on how it makes sense in your schedule.

The loos will be a problem for sure. I've run into problems with that. If you think you might need a comfort break soon and you see somewhere - just take advantage then, you might not see anything for a while. And you can always ask to use the facilities at a pub if it's a bit remote - I've had various responses and you could always just buy a packet of crisps or something if necessary.

Good luck! I am really curious how this goes - you're getting a lot of different advice here and it will be interesting to see how it all works out!

FYI - we were visiting a few castles today with my inlaws who are visiting and stopped in a tiny little village for lunch - didn't find a pub that was open (I know, shocking!) but we noticed that the butchers had a tiny sign in the window &quot;filled rolls&quot; - 65 pence for a sausage roll for my husband and 1.85 for a roast beef and cheese roll for me... sorted for lunch! If you keep your eyes open you'll find options! Have a great trip.

historytraveler

Yelpir, Wow I'm impressed with your eating habits. Afraid I need my scones and cake and would feel seriously deprived if all I had was cereal,toast and some veggies. When you post your trip report,please include your daily rations.

bettyk, thankfully I'm not diabetic nor am I overweight,but I do love my afternoon tea and cake

bettyk

historytraveler, Type 2 diabetes is an epidemic in the US, and occurs very frequently in those over 50. It is also hereditary, so even those who are not overweight can develop the disease.

I am happy that you do not suffer from diabetes and can enjoy your afternoon scones. That's a good thing!