School absences - any tips for convincing reluctant mom and teachers?
Jul 6th, 2003, 07:01 PM
#61
The child in MelissaH's question is entering high school. This is very different than the examples of children in elementary schools or children with one cooperative and understanding teacher who agrees that travel is more important than her class.
Maira's comment that the worry of missing a week of school sounds like neurotic parents shows a lack of understanding of the reality of many high schools. My own children would have had serious concerns about missing a week of class in high school, and the school's absence policy indeed would have made this an extremely serious problem for them.
Maira's comment that the worry of missing a week of school sounds like neurotic parents shows a lack of understanding of the reality of many high schools. My own children would have had serious concerns about missing a week of class in high school, and the school's absence policy indeed would have made this an extremely serious problem for them.
Jul 7th, 2003, 12:09 AM
#62
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What is going on with the kid's life or health that she is at risk for missing the limit of 17 days of school?
Is it really only 4 days off from school or when you add travel time to/from Mom and/or pre-trip preparation and jet lag, is it really more?
Try offering for her to do work BEFORE she goes so she is on-track when she returns - she will likely not do any school work on the actual trip - and teachers might have more respect for this. But don't put the burden on Mom to arrange for this and see that it gets done.
Consider hiring a short-term math tutor to help her with the work around trip time.
If she is a B/C student in middle school and struggling in math in middle school, she may need all the classroom days and extra help she can get in HS
Is it really only 4 days off from school or when you add travel time to/from Mom and/or pre-trip preparation and jet lag, is it really more?
Try offering for her to do work BEFORE she goes so she is on-track when she returns - she will likely not do any school work on the actual trip - and teachers might have more respect for this. But don't put the burden on Mom to arrange for this and see that it gets done.
Consider hiring a short-term math tutor to help her with the work around trip time.
If she is a B/C student in middle school and struggling in math in middle school, she may need all the classroom days and extra help she can get in HS
Aug 26th, 2003, 10:19 AM
#64
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Update for those who asked....
We met with all the teachers, the principal (very small school) and her counselor yesterday. They've been in school 2 weeks so far.
We first talked of concerns for her grades in general (based on past history). All advised that she is doing very well (B's or above, including Algebra) so far.
We took a tentative itinerary for each teacher and explained that we wanted to work with the teachers to the best benefit of all (teachers and student). We asked if they knew of any areas/sites/museums, etc. that might assist in learning what was being studied this year. To our surprise, 2 of her teachers have travelled to England before and readily gave suggestions to the agreement of the other teachers for learning opportunities.
Every one of the teachers was highly supportive of her going on the trip and felt that she would learn much more than she would from a classroom. Two other teachers even talked about a joint pictorial report that she could present to get credit in both classes (English and Geography).
The decided "plan" was to have her attend morning tutoring sessions (all teachers are available each morning from 7:30a - 8a in their classrooms to help any student) beginning this week to ensure that she starts out on the right foot. Once we get into November, she can begin to do "missed" work in advance during morning tutoring so that the majority would be complete before leaving. She will probably have a quiz and maybe a test to make up after returning, but the teachers agreed to give credit.
The school also has a program of National Honor Society students tutoring others who need help in certain subjects. Both her Algebra teacher and her counselor are aware that Math is her "worst" subject and will be monitoring her progress and will assist with a peer tutor if needed.
Finally, our "rule".... the first 6 wks grades must be acceptable in all subjects ("B" or above) or she just doesn't go.
Her Mom feels a little better, and has tentatively agreed provided the grades stay up.
The meeting accomplished a lot and opened the lines of communication. We hope to get progress reports via email (we live 4 hrs away) every couple of weeks so that when trouble starts we can help before she begins to struggle. The teachers were VERY supportive and some indicated that she probably wouldn't have much if any work to make up.
Keep your fingers crossed...it's at least a positive road now!
Thanks to all who offered their thoughts and opinions. It really helped. I hope to post our itinerary for some great Fodorite advice soon!
We met with all the teachers, the principal (very small school) and her counselor yesterday. They've been in school 2 weeks so far.
We first talked of concerns for her grades in general (based on past history). All advised that she is doing very well (B's or above, including Algebra) so far.
We took a tentative itinerary for each teacher and explained that we wanted to work with the teachers to the best benefit of all (teachers and student). We asked if they knew of any areas/sites/museums, etc. that might assist in learning what was being studied this year. To our surprise, 2 of her teachers have travelled to England before and readily gave suggestions to the agreement of the other teachers for learning opportunities.
Every one of the teachers was highly supportive of her going on the trip and felt that she would learn much more than she would from a classroom. Two other teachers even talked about a joint pictorial report that she could present to get credit in both classes (English and Geography).
The decided "plan" was to have her attend morning tutoring sessions (all teachers are available each morning from 7:30a - 8a in their classrooms to help any student) beginning this week to ensure that she starts out on the right foot. Once we get into November, she can begin to do "missed" work in advance during morning tutoring so that the majority would be complete before leaving. She will probably have a quiz and maybe a test to make up after returning, but the teachers agreed to give credit.
The school also has a program of National Honor Society students tutoring others who need help in certain subjects. Both her Algebra teacher and her counselor are aware that Math is her "worst" subject and will be monitoring her progress and will assist with a peer tutor if needed.
Finally, our "rule".... the first 6 wks grades must be acceptable in all subjects ("B" or above) or she just doesn't go.
Her Mom feels a little better, and has tentatively agreed provided the grades stay up.
The meeting accomplished a lot and opened the lines of communication. We hope to get progress reports via email (we live 4 hrs away) every couple of weeks so that when trouble starts we can help before she begins to struggle. The teachers were VERY supportive and some indicated that she probably wouldn't have much if any work to make up.
Keep your fingers crossed...it's at least a positive road now!
Thanks to all who offered their thoughts and opinions. It really helped. I hope to post our itinerary for some great Fodorite advice soon!
Aug 26th, 2003, 10:09 PM
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I think that is great that the teachers are willing to help and work with the student to keep her up to date. With that said, I hate to be a doomsayer but must warn that the teachers may currently be fine with her missing 4 days of school for the trip however they not be fine any longer if the girl keeps up her usual habit as you indicted and mises another 5-7 days for illness. At that point you are crossing the threshhold and 10 days missed total for a year when there is not some serious illness or hospitalization IS A LOT! The teacher may begin to be less workable at some point. Just don't be surprised if accomodation ceases after the 4 days are missed and another 2 says are missed for illness. At tht point, they may teachers may cut you off and say enough beginning to give "zeros" o homework and not allowing missed testst to be made up.
Aug 26th, 2003, 11:08 PM
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sunlover- There will always be a solution, as long as you have cooperative parties.
Melissa - I commend you for caring enough to go to the trouble for her and for the superior way you handled it. I can't wait to here what she gains from her experience.
Some said, "It's only 4 days!" My kids are in a block schedule so 4 days is = to 8. The entire course is completed in the likes of a college semester plus 3 or so weeks. That could be a major problem for some high schooler's. However, I am in the camp that a few days of select travel is far more valuable than a few days in a classroom. As far as what constitutes an excused absence, I understand that rules have to be made for the masses, but there should be exceptions. We have a strict attendance policy which I am all for except when a child's house burned down and she didn't go to school the next day (understandably) it was UNexcused. What a policy. Lastly, if your kid is in sports on a highly competitive team and it is something that is important to them, you best have coaches approval and then some! In Texas' big schools, you best not miss a practice even if your hair is on fire. You WILL lose your place unless you are one of a handful of coveted stars. Sad, but true. My son played tackle football from 8 y.o. through two years of high school. In high school, the skewed values (a deep conversation in itself) in our football program were no longer aligned with our family values. When the value systems split, he quit. Well, he didn't quit, but he transitioned out after finishing the second season. Where sports are concerned, just know what is expected from you individually, not in general, because it can vary greatly from player to player. Fair? Of course not. That's how it is.
Melissa - I commend you for caring enough to go to the trouble for her and for the superior way you handled it. I can't wait to here what she gains from her experience.
Some said, "It's only 4 days!" My kids are in a block schedule so 4 days is = to 8. The entire course is completed in the likes of a college semester plus 3 or so weeks. That could be a major problem for some high schooler's. However, I am in the camp that a few days of select travel is far more valuable than a few days in a classroom. As far as what constitutes an excused absence, I understand that rules have to be made for the masses, but there should be exceptions. We have a strict attendance policy which I am all for except when a child's house burned down and she didn't go to school the next day (understandably) it was UNexcused. What a policy. Lastly, if your kid is in sports on a highly competitive team and it is something that is important to them, you best have coaches approval and then some! In Texas' big schools, you best not miss a practice even if your hair is on fire. You WILL lose your place unless you are one of a handful of coveted stars. Sad, but true. My son played tackle football from 8 y.o. through two years of high school. In high school, the skewed values (a deep conversation in itself) in our football program were no longer aligned with our family values. When the value systems split, he quit. Well, he didn't quit, but he transitioned out after finishing the second season. Where sports are concerned, just know what is expected from you individually, not in general, because it can vary greatly from player to player. Fair? Of course not. That's how it is.
Aug 26th, 2003, 11:37 PM
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My parents pulled me out of school (private) in the fourth grade to travel around Europe for three months! It was the best thing that ever happend to me. That experience sparked a desire in me to travel, meet new people, learn foreign languages, learn about art history and to become an artist and chef.
I yanked my kids out just this year for a smaller scale trip then the one I went on as a kid. The teachers did not have a proublem with it, but the school was mad that they would loose their $93.00 per day from the state for each day my kids missed school. They even said that my kids could loose their spots and new kids moving into our area could replace them. Horse pucky! I have donated generously to our school and often have done so anonymously. I figured out how much money the school would loose and wrote them a nice check. Voila! No more threats.
I just felt that the kids should see and remember their father in his native land of Italy while he is still able to travel there with them. Sod the school administrators who would rob a child of that memory.
I'll get off of my soap box now. In other words, I support your choice to show your girl the world.
I yanked my kids out just this year for a smaller scale trip then the one I went on as a kid. The teachers did not have a proublem with it, but the school was mad that they would loose their $93.00 per day from the state for each day my kids missed school. They even said that my kids could loose their spots and new kids moving into our area could replace them. Horse pucky! I have donated generously to our school and often have done so anonymously. I figured out how much money the school would loose and wrote them a nice check. Voila! No more threats.
I just felt that the kids should see and remember their father in his native land of Italy while he is still able to travel there with them. Sod the school administrators who would rob a child of that memory.
I'll get off of my soap box now. In other words, I support your choice to show your girl the world.
Aug 26th, 2003, 11:53 PM
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Calamoari - As others have said, BIG difference between "fourth grade" and high school. I think travel broadens the mind as well and a child who gets to do so is very fortunate. BUT we aretalking about a kid in high schol hoping to go on to college who already misses a lot of school for whatever reason and apparently is not the best student. I see both sides of this and am glad that the teachers are going to help her out. I do not think the teachers are worried about the money they are losing and I don't think the arguments no tto go are "horsepucky" Melissa I just hope everythig works out for the best, at least it sounds like you are now getting some support from the mother which should be helpful as well.
Aug 27th, 2003, 03:51 AM
#73
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Melissa, I am just so happy with your update and your positive experience. The burden of responsibility is now where it belongs--squarely on your daughter's shoulders. If she can't produce given all this love and support, then she alone will be the person denying herself the trip. That's a terrific message to be sending.
Aug 27th, 2003, 05:49 PM
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I stand by my comment--- and still wondered about schools curriculums which would make kids/students feel their whole academic future is in jeopardy if they missed a week (obviously, not the final exams week...). Lack of understanding is far from being the case; My brother is a teacher married to a school principal, my sister is a teacher, also married to a teacher. Three nieces and one nephew are finishing education degrees. Obviously, the topic may have come up at some point during family dinners and I had plenty of qualified people to explained it to me..... including the part about neurotic parents.
Aug 28th, 2003, 04:11 AM
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Maira: I don't think implying that any family reluctant to take time out of school as "neurotic" is apt, especially because many of us can tell you our kids want to be in class. And I don't think the kids are neurotic--they're just responsible persons lucky enough to have a strong academic climate.
When I went to high school 35 years ago, by the end of my junior year, I myself was reluctant to take a field trip because I just felt there was no way to make up the missed class time. My parents had nothing to do with it; the school had nothing to do with it. There's a point in one's academic schedule where it's best to be there in class.
Flash forward 35 years. Instead of the one or two AP courses I was offered as a high school kid, our high school now offers 16. And my kid plans to take 10 of them. Please note: she plans that, not me. Just as when I was in high school--I made the decision to take the hardest courses, not my parents.
I wish we could just buzz off to Paris for the weekend (we used to have a fantastic direct flight that was often an E-Saver) the way we used to. But the way I look at it, we had our years of travel. We took them out of school for a few days here and there at the end/beginning of school breaks in elementary and middle school. If they need to be in school now, fine.
They both plan to take semesters abroad in college, and they sure plan to have good jobs so they can travel to the places we didn't visit. If that's what being in class during the school year gets you, I just don't see how not wanting to miss school is unrealistic.
When I went to high school 35 years ago, by the end of my junior year, I myself was reluctant to take a field trip because I just felt there was no way to make up the missed class time. My parents had nothing to do with it; the school had nothing to do with it. There's a point in one's academic schedule where it's best to be there in class.
Flash forward 35 years. Instead of the one or two AP courses I was offered as a high school kid, our high school now offers 16. And my kid plans to take 10 of them. Please note: she plans that, not me. Just as when I was in high school--I made the decision to take the hardest courses, not my parents.
I wish we could just buzz off to Paris for the weekend (we used to have a fantastic direct flight that was often an E-Saver) the way we used to. But the way I look at it, we had our years of travel. We took them out of school for a few days here and there at the end/beginning of school breaks in elementary and middle school. If they need to be in school now, fine.
They both plan to take semesters abroad in college, and they sure plan to have good jobs so they can travel to the places we didn't visit. If that's what being in class during the school year gets you, I just don't see how not wanting to miss school is unrealistic.
Aug 28th, 2003, 05:11 AM
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We are military living in Europe, so this happens frequently when families come to visit. Some families have their children write journals of the trip for English, and History extra credit. As for the Math--she could keep track of mileage, help plan the itinerary--how long for travel from point A to point B, how much gas is needed, approximate cost etc... work it into equations that utilize the Algebra concepts. I'm not sure I remember that much algebra until I break down how I actually figure out the answers to all of these types of questions. The knowledged to be gained from this experience is far greater than she will EVER learn in those 4 days of school. Good luck and I hope she gets to enjoy Europe with you. Patti
