davidjac

Next July I will have only one day from Lautrebrunnen to do either the schilthorn or Jungfrauhoch. Which do you suggest?

Thanks

PalenqueBob

Won't judge - done both twice and loved both twice.

Schilthorn - a much more dramatic conveyance getting there - i think Europe's longest aerial cableway - over a desolate terrain to the world's highest revolving restaurant - James Bond associations. But little to do there once there - little platform with some snow to walk on but otherwise trails plunge down from here.

Jungfraujoch - train ride is nearly completely in tunnels with two stops at windows in the rocks for great views but once up top lot more to do - better views as well in my opinion - over the Gletscher Glacier to the south - incroyable! Dog rides i believe, long walks on snow and to the glacier - a bigger station with eateries, ice cave to walk thru - but much more expensive as well - $120 about vs Schilthorn $80 or so - be sure to either buy a Swiss Flexipass which will give you 50% off these things or the Half-Fare Cards. For details on Swiss Passes in the U.S. www.budgeteuropetravel.com has a nice run-down on them as well as current prices - about 15% cheaper than same pass in Switzerland last time i checked. Half-Fare Card only sold in Switzerland for i think CH99 (99 Swiss francs) and good for one year - you get 50% off virtually everything that moves in Switzerland - contrast this with the Swiss Flexipass which gives you a minimum of three days free travel (or 100% covered) and then 50% off everything else for a month. Pays for your travel to Lauterbrunnen from wherever in full and one other day to do say the pricey Lauterbrunnen-Murren-Gimmelwald-Stechelberg loop covered in full with the Murren-Schilthorn cable 50% off. See www.sbb.ch for fares to see which is best.

enzian

Nice answer, PalenqueBob---you covered most of what I would have said.

It pretty much comes down to what you want to do there. The Jungfraujoch offers a lot to see and do---we love the ice cave and sculptures, and I'd love to trek out across the snow to the hut sometime. The building itself is very interesting to wander around. But the place is very crowded, and I don't care for the long train ride in the dark, inside the Eiger (tho' I still marvel at the engineering, and the concept).

If davidjac just wants to ride up and enjoy the view, I'd suggest the Schilthorn---very dramatic ride up, as PalenqueBob suggests. It's not for anyone who is afrid of heights. You can hike down from there, if you are properly equipped with map, boots, jacket, etc. (And, as the sign suggests, no high heels allowed!) Although in July, there still may be a lot of snow up there.

bob_brown

I have done both the Schilthorn and the Jungfraujoch and I have a distinct preference for the Jungfrau trip even though it is more expensive.

My preference hinges on two factors:
1. The day is clear;
2. You take the walk along the groomed snow track to the hikers' shelter known as the Mönchsjochhütte.

Don't let the similarity of the German word Hütte to the word hut fool you. This shelter is a 3-story building anchored to the side of the ridge. It will hold 125 hikers overnight plus the attending staff. Both food and hot beverages are available upstairs at reasonable prices considering the costs of supplying the place.

Take a look at the web site at this link:
http://www.moenchsjoch.ch/index-e.htm

The web pictures to me are most impressive.

I hope that I can return to the shelter one more time while I am still physically able.

The trip up to the Jungfraujoch is in two stages from Lauterbrunnen. First you ride from Lauterbrunnen to Kleine Scheidegg. There you change to the Jungfraubahn for the ascent to the top. The train stops twice for views through windows carved in the face of the Eiger.

There are all type of facilities at the top for eating and amusement. If you want, you can take a sled ride pulled by Alaskan Huskies, or ride a climbers sling as you slide down a cable.

The snow track out to the shelter is groomed by a machine, but I suggest you not stray off of it because you can bog up in snow to your waist, or deeper.

The track is on the lee side of the ridge, usually, but at the end when you reach the hikers' shelter there is a notch in the ridge. At times the wind can roar through there at gale force or better.

On a sunny day in the summer, the temperature can be quite warm if the air is still. I find it to be an interesting experience to walk along in snow while perspiring. Some people hike in shorts but, if you do, I suggest sun screen because on a clear day the UV intensity is very high.

Too bad you don't have time to stay overnight at the shelter. I think that would be a unique experience. All you need is a sleeping bag and other essentials.

On the return trip, I suggest you get off at the station called Eigergletscher and have a look around. If you wish, you can hike down a portion of the Eiger trail for a better look at that towering wall of rock.

If you want you can walk down from the station to Kleine Scheidegg and get close up views of the glacier. There are facilities at Kleine Scheidegg as well.

If you decide you don't want to do the Jungfraujoch, I can suggest a very attractive althernative.

Take the train to Wengen and the cable lift to the Männlichen crest. Then walk the easy trail down to Kleine Scheidegg.

Regardless, you cannot lose. It is a question of pluses.

scrb

I was going to do both but one concern about shilthorn is that it appears to be difficult to get to from Grindlewald.

Also, on Jungfraujoch, I emailed them and they said it's only a 25% discount with the Swiss Card and no discount on the Good Morning Ticket.

Budman

We had the 1/2 fare card, and the Jungfraujoch was 1/2 fare. There was no discount though for the good morning ticket, and that pleased my wife -- she didn't have to get up so early to catch the first couple of trains.

brookwood

Are you sure you specifically asked about the Swiss Card? The Card is not the same as the Swiss Pass in some respects.

I just copied this clip from the Jungfraubahnen website:


# Half-fare Card and Swiss Card
General 50% reduction on the entire Jungfrau Railways network.

# SBB General Pass (GA) and Swiss Pass
Free travel to Wengen, Mürren and Grindelwald. 50% reduction on other sections (mountain rail & cableways).


http://www.jungfraubahn.ch/en/Deskto...480_read-6284/

By the way, I don't think the difficulty in getting to the Schilthorn from Grindelwald is all that great!

The total trip takes 1 hour, 37 minutes.
Leave Grindelwald on any of 8 or 9 morning departures. At Zweilütschinen change for Lauterbrunnen.
In Lauterbrunnen change to the new gondola to Grutschalp.
At Grutschalp change to the continuation train to Mürren.
In Mürren walk a short distance to the Schilthornbahn station and ride to the top.

scrb

Here's his email reply and look at the fare he cites of 108 CHF, which I believe represents a 25% discount, not 50%

<i>Thank you for your e-mail. If you are a holder of the Swiss Pass, there is no benefit if you buy the Good Morning Ticket. Holders of the Swiss Pass get a reduction of 25 to 50% on the regular fares of the train-ticket (not on the price of the Good-Morning Ticket. The fare for holders of the Swiss Pass is CHF 108.00 for the roundtrip to Jungfraujoch (on any trains).

Yours sincerely

RAIL INFO JUNGFRAUBAHNEN
Stefan Schneider
Harderstrasse 14, 3800 Interlaken
Telefon ++41 33 828 72 33, Fax ++41 33 828 72 60
E-mail: [email protected] / www.jungfraubahn.ch &lt;http://www.jungfraubahn.ch&gt;

JUNGFRAU - ALETSCH - BIETSCHHORN
UNESCO-Weltnaturerbe / World Natural Heritage in the Alps
</i>

BTW, is there any advantage in ordering the Swiss Pass before leaving for Switzerland -- i.e. pay for the shipping -- or get it when you arrive, at the train station.

PalenqueBob

Re: ordering here or there - Raileurope and BETS and some other agents will not charge shipping on orders $200 or $250 and over and unless you need Express few-day mailing, so there should be no mailing or handling fee if you order early enough and thus can save i think about $30-40 on saverpass for two folks. Granted in Switzerland $30-40 is just a few cups of coffee...but...

PalenqueBob

And if one had kids under 16 they would get a free Family Card in the U.S. allowing them to travel free on any conveyance you use the pass for - these cards i believe cost CH20 each for the first two kids if bought in Suisse - or about $32 more for two kids.

scrb

I'm looking at a 4-day Swiss Pass, second class, for $185 so there wouldn't be free shipping.

I thought about a 5-day Flexi Pass for my 6-day trip but that extra day adds like $60!

Probably better if I just buy a separate ticket for Zurich HB to Grindlewald (for about $40 IIRC), although if I get there while there is still a lot of light, I guess I could go up further, use the 50% discount for some cable cars or something.

PalenqueBob

BETS, according to their rail guide, would charge $5 for orders under $250 - total cost if they have 21 days before the order to use snail mail. By the way their free European Planning &amp; Rail Guide has some nice info on Switzerland and especially the Berner Oberland (www.budgeteuropetravel.com) as does www.ricksteves.com. In any case i highly recommend doing the loop from Lauterbrunnen up the recently reopened life, now an aerial cable car replacing the old funicular, to Grutschalp and then one of Europe's most fantastically scenic trains along the cliff to Murren - do the Schilthorn cable and back from there perhaps and then cabe down to Gimmelwald, a lost in the Alps surrealistic type place with awesome views and then pluging back down to the Lauterbrunnen Valley by a very dramatic aerial cable car to Stechelberg and then by postal bus back to Lauterbrunnen. The whole route save the Murren-Schilthorn cable is covered in full by a Swiss Pass. to me this is one of the top excursions anywhere in Europe.

enzian

Is the new lift up to M&uuml;rren open now? I thought the scheduled opening was Dec. 16.

PalenqueBob

No, i was jumping forward to when I though scrb would be going - it is scheduled to open in the next few days in time for winter peak season i guess. I loved the old funicular but practicality and efficiency wins out.

ExpertTripPlanner

I've been to both, and enjoyed each one. It MUST be clear for you to enjoy Jungfraujoch; not as essential (but helpful) for Schilthorn. Perhaps you could wait until the actual day to make your decision?

brookwood

If you asked about the fare from Lauterbrunnen to the Jungfraujoch, and that is a factor, there are several factual inconsistencies in the answer you received from the Jungfraubahn people.

First, the roundtrip fare, 2nd class, from Lauterbrunnen to the Jungfraujoch is listed on the Jungfraubahn website as being 157 chf.

A 25% discount would yield a price of 117.75, while a 50% discount would be 78.50. The price you were quoted is neither.

Also, until last year, the reduction for the Swiss PASS was 25%. Last year I read where the reduction had been upped to 50%. The Swiss CARD has in the past for me always yielded a discount of 50% except on two short cable car rides -Pfingstegg and Isenfluh.

On the Jungfrau trip I have paid half in prior years.

Also as a footnote to the price schedule I looked up the qualifications in German to make sure there were no translation oddities. This is what it says:




Verg&uuml;nstigungen

Halbtaxabo und Swiss Card
Generell 50% Reduktion auf dem gesamten Streckennetz der Jungfraubahnen.

Generalabonnement SBB und Swiss Pass
Freie Fahrt bis Wengen, M&uuml;rren und Grindelwald. Weitere Strecken (Bergbahnen) 50% Erm&auml;ssigung.


The German version clearly says that Swiss Card holders receive a 50% discount on the whole rail net of the Jungfraubahnen (which is plural).

The Swiss Pass is valid as far as Muerren, Wengen, and Grindelwald. (Lauterbrunnen subsumed.) After that Swiss Pass holders receive a 50% discount. The discount applies to mountain transportation. (Bergbahnen)

So something is amiss here. Either the policy has changed and has not yet been posted or the agent who responded was mistaken. The calculations are definitely off because they fit neither reduction class from Lauterbrunnen.

scrb

Perhaps he calculated it from Grindlewald, where I will be staying, rather than Lauterbrunnen to Jungfraujoch.

<i>In any case i highly recommend doing the loop from Lauterbrunnen up the recently reopened life, now an aerial cable car replacing the old funicular, to Grutschalp and then one of Europe's most fantastically scenic trains along the cliff to Murren - do the Schilthorn cable and back from there perhaps and then cabe down to Gimmelwald, a lost in the Alps surrealistic type place with awesome views and then pluging back down to the Lauterbrunnen Valley by a very dramatic aerial cable car to Stechelberg and then by postal bus back to Lauterbrunnen. The whole route save the Murren-Schilthorn cable is covered in full by a Swiss Pass. to me this is one of the top excursions anywhere in Europe.</i>

That sounds fantastic.

So I will have to look for train to <b>Lauterbrunnen, then cable car to Grutschalp, then train again to Murren, then cable car to Schilthorn, then cable car to Gimmewald, then cable car to Stechelberg, then bus down to Lauterbrunnen?</b>

How long will this take (from Grindlewald), a whole day?

I don't suppose there is one itinerary you can search on sbb.ch which would cover all this exact route? I guess I'll take the Swiss Pass and figure out the timetables of all the individual segments you outlined.

PalenqueBob

You won't need timetables and the conveyances on the loop go all the time. You get to Lauterbrunnen from Grindelwald by train by changing at Zweilutschen (sp?) takes about 25 mins to Lauterbrunnen - then from the train station (actually across the street but there is a passageway from the station) you catch the aerial cableway right up the cliff to Grutschalp, where the electric train to Murren should be waiting. In Murren you must walk thru the small town to get to the Schilthorn cable - this is the same cableway that goes down to Gimmelwald (also a sweet short downhill walk from Murren to Gimmelwald if you want to mix in a little easy walking) and look around Gimmelwald a bit and go down to the valley where the postal bus leaves from the Stechelberg cable station (or another nice walk to Lauterbrunnen, about two miles and flat).
Everything is synchronized and total travel time from Lauterbrunnen is about only an hour - actual traveling on cables and trains. There is a popular mountain restaurant at a stop on the Grutschalp-Murren train - can't think of name but starts with a W - famous in the area and tremendous views from the patio.
If also going to Schilthorn then add about two hours at least or more if you stay up top longer than the usual half hour or so.
As in season the Lauterbrunnen-Murren cable can get crowded with lines (at least the old funicular did) you may want to do this in reverse - bus to Stechelberg and go up that way to Gimmelwald/Murren).
Anway yes my favorite jaunt in the Alps.

brookwood

The fare from Grindelwald at 25% off the list price is 118.50 chf. I still don't think you were correctly informed about the price unless there has been an unposted change in policy about discounts.

The loop that you describe is quite doable and will NOT take you all day, but I can easily make a WHOLE day excursion out of it. No trouble at all!! In fact I have sone so more than once without going to the top of the Schilthorn.

The train from Grindelwald to Lauterbrunnen takes 35 minutes.
The change at Zweil&uuml;tschinen is quick: 3 minutes. The train comes from the opposite direction I might add because the valley trains meet. The train from Interlaken divides at Zweil&uuml;tschinen with half going to Lauterbrunnen and half to Grindelwald. The returning trains combine at Zweil&uuml;tschinen before continuing back to Interlaken Ost.

The ride to Lauterbrunnen takes another 10 minutes.

Once you arrive in Lauterbrunnen, exit on the right side of the train, toward the station house, then walk across the street to the new cable car and ride it for 4 minutes to Grutschalp where the little train is waiting to take you on to M&uuml;rren.

I strongly recommend walking from Grutschalp to M&uuml;rren if you get an early enough start. It is a very spectacular walk because the main range of the Berner Oberland is directly in front of you and the trail if fairly flat and relatively wide.

Of course if you are going to the top of the Schilthorn, you will see the same mountains.

On the descent, the cars of the Schilthornbahn ascend and descend in harmony. One meets the other and you simply walk from one car to the next. The bus at the valley station near Stechelberg that takes passengers to Lauterbrunnen is timed to meet the cable cars coming down from the tiny dot of Gimmelwald.

The same bus also stops at Trommelbach Falls which for me are very interesting. They are lighted and there is an elevator to take you to the better viewing portals.

As the bus nears Lauterbrunnen, it makes a sharp turn to the left and stops near the walkway to Staubbach Falls which you can see off to your west side.

There are several other loop possibilities in this area.

Other than the Grutschalp-M&uuml;rren-Stechelberg route, you could take the gondola from Grindelwald Grund to the M&auml;nnlichen. The ride is something like 6 miles. On its eastern slope the M&auml;nnlichen is fairly gentle; on the west, it plunges precipitously to the floor of the Lauterbrunnen Valley.
You will see snow barriers all around that are designed to reduce the threat of avalanches.

From the M&auml;nnlichen, you can ride a cable car down to Wengen and return to Grindelwald two ways: via Lauterbrunnen or Kleine Scheidegg which is where the trains from Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald meet although they don't change sides of the mountain because of the type of equipment used.

The Jungfraubahn itself is different equipment as well. That train goes to the Jungfraujoch from Kleine Scheidegg.

On this trip you will not have time to take all of the loops, but if you fall in love with those hills as I have, you will be planning your next trip before you return home.

enzian

&quot;There is a popular mountain restaurant at a stop on the Grutschalp-Murren train - can't think of name but starts with a W - famous in the area and tremendous views from the patio.&quot;

Winteregg? I can picture the train stopping there; the little chalet's planters and windowboxes overflowing with flowers.