Scenic Swiss Trains in a Nutshell
Oct 27th, 2009, 10:01 AM
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GETTING TO INTERLAKEN THE SCENIC WAY
Well there ain't any rail/road access into Interlaken, the gateway to the fabulous Jungfrau Region that ain't scenic - even dramatically so. And though most people rail in via one of two mainline rail routes - one from Spiez along the shores of Lake Thun or one from Lucerne over the Brunig Pass thence along Lake Brienz there is another means of access that most folks don't consider but which IMO they should - that being by postal buses over either the Grimsel Pass or Susten Pass - hopping the iconic Swiss Postal Buses that ply each pass from Meiringen, a short train/boat ride from Interlaken along the shores of Lake Brienz.
So i'll take a look at the main access rail routes and also the postal bus routes, both of which provide convenient tie ins with the Glacier Express Route and the Zurich-Lugano Gotthard rail route.
Well there ain't any rail/road access into Interlaken, the gateway to the fabulous Jungfrau Region that ain't scenic - even dramatically so. And though most people rail in via one of two mainline rail routes - one from Spiez along the shores of Lake Thun or one from Lucerne over the Brunig Pass thence along Lake Brienz there is another means of access that most folks don't consider but which IMO they should - that being by postal buses over either the Grimsel Pass or Susten Pass - hopping the iconic Swiss Postal Buses that ply each pass from Meiringen, a short train/boat ride from Interlaken along the shores of Lake Brienz.
So i'll take a look at the main access rail routes and also the postal bus routes, both of which provide convenient tie ins with the Glacier Express Route and the Zurich-Lugano Gotthard rail route.
Oct 28th, 2009, 10:47 AM
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GETTING TO INTERLAKEN/JUNGFRAU REGION
THE BRUNIG PASS ROUTE FROM LUCERNE
A delightful way to access Interlaken and its hinterlands like Wengen, Grindelwald, etc from Lucerne is to hop the hourly regional trains that go up and over the Brunig Pass - from Lucerne the tracks go along a portion of Lake Lucerne and then gradually ascend a bucolic Alpine-lake strewn valley until you hear a grinding sound that signifies the cog wheels are being lowered to engage with the cogs laid in the middle of the narrow-gauged tracks to help the train negotiate a steep portion with the assist of cogs - it is said to be the only Swiss Federal Railways' only cog-assisted train and the rare one on such a main rail line.
Only after cresting over the summit that at some point the cog wheel is lifted and the gradients become benign enough to go on without them (cogs also assist in breaking the train when going down steep inclines).
The approach to Meiringen is a few miles of descending tracks and you can lovingly see Lake Brienz laid out far below. At Meiringen the train loco must be detached and moved to the other end of the train and the train reverses direction to head along the shores of idyllic fjord-like Lake Brienz - passing thru Brienz, a village known for its wood-cutting, evidence in the ubiquitous elaborate wooden planter boxes gracing each wooden chalet-style house.
Then it's right along the lake shore all the way to Interlaken and the terminus at Interlaken-Ost (East) station - the narrow-gauge tracks end here so trains can't go on to Interlaken-West, the station a mile away and right in the centre of Interlaken.
But if going into the Jungfrau Region then you hop onto mountain-climbing BOB (Berner Oberland Bahn) trains to either Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen (change there for Wengen or Murren).
If coming from Zurich to Interlaken the quickest route is via Bern but though any train ride in Switzerland is scenic IMO the Brunig Pass route, via Lucerne, is a bit longer but so so much more scenic - and you also can easily in Lucerne stuff your bags in a luggage locker and spend a few hours in that gorgeous city en route.
NEXT THE GOLDEN PASS ROUTE FROM MONTREUX AND LAKE GENEVA
THE BRUNIG PASS ROUTE FROM LUCERNE
A delightful way to access Interlaken and its hinterlands like Wengen, Grindelwald, etc from Lucerne is to hop the hourly regional trains that go up and over the Brunig Pass - from Lucerne the tracks go along a portion of Lake Lucerne and then gradually ascend a bucolic Alpine-lake strewn valley until you hear a grinding sound that signifies the cog wheels are being lowered to engage with the cogs laid in the middle of the narrow-gauged tracks to help the train negotiate a steep portion with the assist of cogs - it is said to be the only Swiss Federal Railways' only cog-assisted train and the rare one on such a main rail line.
Only after cresting over the summit that at some point the cog wheel is lifted and the gradients become benign enough to go on without them (cogs also assist in breaking the train when going down steep inclines).
The approach to Meiringen is a few miles of descending tracks and you can lovingly see Lake Brienz laid out far below. At Meiringen the train loco must be detached and moved to the other end of the train and the train reverses direction to head along the shores of idyllic fjord-like Lake Brienz - passing thru Brienz, a village known for its wood-cutting, evidence in the ubiquitous elaborate wooden planter boxes gracing each wooden chalet-style house.
Then it's right along the lake shore all the way to Interlaken and the terminus at Interlaken-Ost (East) station - the narrow-gauge tracks end here so trains can't go on to Interlaken-West, the station a mile away and right in the centre of Interlaken.
But if going into the Jungfrau Region then you hop onto mountain-climbing BOB (Berner Oberland Bahn) trains to either Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen (change there for Wengen or Murren).
If coming from Zurich to Interlaken the quickest route is via Bern but though any train ride in Switzerland is scenic IMO the Brunig Pass route, via Lucerne, is a bit longer but so so much more scenic - and you also can easily in Lucerne stuff your bags in a luggage locker and spend a few hours in that gorgeous city en route.
NEXT THE GOLDEN PASS ROUTE FROM MONTREUX AND LAKE GENEVA
Oct 28th, 2009, 12:35 PM
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It should be noted that the Golden Pass special scenic tourist train also runs between Lucerne and Interlaken, before continuing on via Spiez and Zweisimmen to Montreux and Lake Geneva, its western terminus. And by 'tourist train' i mean that it offers onboard hostesses and recorded commentary on sites you roll by - and extra fancy doillies on seats and most famously glass-domed Panoramic or Observation cars, traditionally only in first class cars but more and more in some 2nd class carriages as well. But there are on all segments normal regional or IC trains running the same routes with of course the same scenery. Some segments of the Golden Pass require seat reservations before boarding as well - but currently i believe none are required on the Lucerne to Interlaken-Ost portion - but to insure a place in an observation car they are suggested and can be made in any Swiss station. so just to clarify that the official Golden Pass trains are not the only option, though they do add special services not on normal trains. Swiss railpasses and railpasses valid in Switzerland (like Eurailpasses) are fully valid on the Golden Pass official trains and, of course, on the regular trains as well.
Oct 28th, 2009, 01:54 PM
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Palenque,
Thank you so much for this wonderful thread. It’s a joy to read. Your post show such love and knowledge of both Switzerland and train travel. Fantastic!
I am planning a big European journey with my 16-year old daughter next summer (first trip for her). I’ve included Switzerland in my itinerary, but had a really hard time figuring out the details until this topic came along. I would like to focus on the scenic Switzerland and avoid big cities, which presents a problem. I find big cities are much easier to research and I am still fighting to wrap my head around what to expect in Switzerland. Maybe you could help me a bit figuring out what to expect.
Unfortunately, I don’t have to much time to spend in Switzerland (3 days). Here is the plan so far:
- Arrive to Montreux in the evening (from Milan)
- Next morning explore chateau de Chillon & spend another night in Montreux
- In the morning take the Golden Pass train to Interlaken
- Spend the rest of the day in/ around Interlaken: take a boat ride, perhaps go to Brienz, see Ballenberg (the open air museum)
- Sleep over in Interlaken
- Spend a day exploring Alps using the route via Lauterbrunnen and Murren that you suggested above (walk around a bit in both Murren and Gimmelwald)
- Would need to move on to France in the evening, so will need to leave Interlaken by 5 pm or so.
But I have whole bunch of questions and would truly appreciate your input:
1. How much time do I need for chateau de Chillon? The best part of the day or half a day? Should I visit ether Broc Chocolate factory or Gruyeres on the same day or is it too much?
2. Where would you recommend going from Interlaken, if I’d like to combine it with the boat ride? To Brienz? Is Ballenberg worth a visit? Any other place along the way? Some waterfalls, perhaps? I’ll probably have half a day for this.
3. How long would you say your suggested route in the Alps take? Does the Eurorail pass cover those trains / cable cars and so on? Any reservations needed? Do they run often?
4. When we reach Schilthorn what weather should we expect in August? Would there be ice or snow?
5. Any scenic route you’d recommend for journey to France?
6. By the way, it’s possible that the first night in Montreux will be on August 1st, The Swiss National Day. What should I expect? Would there be fireworks or parades? How can I find out?
Thank you so much again for the wonderful thread.
Thank you so much for this wonderful thread. It’s a joy to read. Your post show such love and knowledge of both Switzerland and train travel. Fantastic!
I am planning a big European journey with my 16-year old daughter next summer (first trip for her). I’ve included Switzerland in my itinerary, but had a really hard time figuring out the details until this topic came along. I would like to focus on the scenic Switzerland and avoid big cities, which presents a problem. I find big cities are much easier to research and I am still fighting to wrap my head around what to expect in Switzerland. Maybe you could help me a bit figuring out what to expect.
Unfortunately, I don’t have to much time to spend in Switzerland (3 days). Here is the plan so far:
- Arrive to Montreux in the evening (from Milan)
- Next morning explore chateau de Chillon & spend another night in Montreux
- In the morning take the Golden Pass train to Interlaken
- Spend the rest of the day in/ around Interlaken: take a boat ride, perhaps go to Brienz, see Ballenberg (the open air museum)
- Sleep over in Interlaken
- Spend a day exploring Alps using the route via Lauterbrunnen and Murren that you suggested above (walk around a bit in both Murren and Gimmelwald)
- Would need to move on to France in the evening, so will need to leave Interlaken by 5 pm or so.
But I have whole bunch of questions and would truly appreciate your input:
1. How much time do I need for chateau de Chillon? The best part of the day or half a day? Should I visit ether Broc Chocolate factory or Gruyeres on the same day or is it too much?
2. Where would you recommend going from Interlaken, if I’d like to combine it with the boat ride? To Brienz? Is Ballenberg worth a visit? Any other place along the way? Some waterfalls, perhaps? I’ll probably have half a day for this.
3. How long would you say your suggested route in the Alps take? Does the Eurorail pass cover those trains / cable cars and so on? Any reservations needed? Do they run often?
4. When we reach Schilthorn what weather should we expect in August? Would there be ice or snow?
5. Any scenic route you’d recommend for journey to France?
6. By the way, it’s possible that the first night in Montreux will be on August 1st, The Swiss National Day. What should I expect? Would there be fireworks or parades? How can I find out?
Thank you so much again for the wonderful thread.
Nov 18th, 2009, 12:45 PM
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AnnaM - i just opened the thread after a long absence and i will try to answer to my best your questions next time. Thanks for the nice comments.
Eurail will get you on the Golden Pass 100% and to Interlaken but up from there it will give you only a 25% discount but on a flexipass if you have one with a discount you do not use a flexible day of travel and you still get the discount - thus you'd get 25% off the Lauterbrunnen, etc. and not use a day on the pass.
I will digest the Qs and report back.
Eurail will get you on the Golden Pass 100% and to Interlaken but up from there it will give you only a 25% discount but on a flexipass if you have one with a discount you do not use a flexible day of travel and you still get the discount - thus you'd get 25% off the Lauterbrunnen, etc. and not use a day on the pass.
I will digest the Qs and report back.
Nov 30th, 2009, 11:27 AM
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Anna- sorry i have taken so long and hope you are still around but if not others can benefit perhaps.
so here goes: (and i invite you to post your questions in a new post so others can give their opinions as well) - if you have not already done so.
1- Chateau Chillon is small enough so i cannot see how you could spend more than a few hours there - i have never heard of lone lines, etc. You could take a boat there from Montreux or a public bus or even walk the few miles (though when my son was 16 that would have been a tough sell!) - if you have a Swiss Pass the boat, bus (or train which also goes there) would be valid on all as well as entrance to the castle, i believe (but only on 100% covered days - not on days in between a Flexipass day)
but to do both that and Gruyeres and Broc factory would be very ambitious - but you could well take the train to Gruyeres from Montreux and it is a nice train journey up thru vineyards from Lausanne and Gruyeres is small and a gem - great castle - fine walled town and cheese factory.
I guess you could point for the Broc Factory in lieu of Gruyeres but i would suggest Gruyeres is the more more to see (but perhaps a 16 yr old would rather see the Chocolate Factory (which to be honest i have not visited) - and is easy enought to take a train too from Montreux.
4- Schilthorn weather in August - very very hard to predict, even from one day to the next but nearly every hotel i've ever been in has on the TV weather cams everywhere in the area so check before setting out - chances are in August you will find it more clear than not - but rainy spells do set in here so keep that itinerary flexible - i like both the Murren-Gimmelwald loop and boats on Lake Brienz - but the former really is nice only in nice weather - whereas the boat can be done in foul weather and the Ballenberg museum is weather-proof as well (though nicer weather is always nicer...)
and you need not do Ballenberg to enjoy the boat ride on Lake Brienz - yup there is a waterfall right by a boat dock - the Giessbach See dock - there is an antique funicular that takes you up to a famous hotel there that is right by a roaring water cascade - boat service is about hourly in season so you can get off and on easily. And when you get to Brienz, if not wanting to do Ballenberg, which does take a bit of time as it is vast - hop a train to Meiringen, a few minutes away and there on the edge of town you have the famous Reichenbach Falls - much bigger than Giessbach Falls even and famous for being the venue of where Sherlock Holmes pushed Prof Moriarity to his death in the falls. (I think i got that right!) And in Meiringen, a sweet regional town, there is in an old tiny church a Sherlock Holmes Museum. And trains back to Interlaken-Ost run all the time and take only about 20-30 mins. So even without Ballenberg Lake Brienz can be a sweet sweet day - even in foul weather.
My take on Ballenberg is that it is a great open-air folk museum - old buildings brought here and lots of demos of old-time crafts, etc. but in Switzerland i'd rather yes see waterfalls, take a boat ride, explore Meiringen, etc. - that is if time is limited and it is.
In nice weather i'd opt for the Murren/Schilthorn/Gimmelwald day - in poorer the boat ride on Lake Brienz, returning by train.
I'll tackle more of your Qs next time. Cheers
so here goes: (and i invite you to post your questions in a new post so others can give their opinions as well) - if you have not already done so.
1- Chateau Chillon is small enough so i cannot see how you could spend more than a few hours there - i have never heard of lone lines, etc. You could take a boat there from Montreux or a public bus or even walk the few miles (though when my son was 16 that would have been a tough sell!) - if you have a Swiss Pass the boat, bus (or train which also goes there) would be valid on all as well as entrance to the castle, i believe (but only on 100% covered days - not on days in between a Flexipass day)
but to do both that and Gruyeres and Broc factory would be very ambitious - but you could well take the train to Gruyeres from Montreux and it is a nice train journey up thru vineyards from Lausanne and Gruyeres is small and a gem - great castle - fine walled town and cheese factory.
I guess you could point for the Broc Factory in lieu of Gruyeres but i would suggest Gruyeres is the more more to see (but perhaps a 16 yr old would rather see the Chocolate Factory (which to be honest i have not visited) - and is easy enought to take a train too from Montreux.
4- Schilthorn weather in August - very very hard to predict, even from one day to the next but nearly every hotel i've ever been in has on the TV weather cams everywhere in the area so check before setting out - chances are in August you will find it more clear than not - but rainy spells do set in here so keep that itinerary flexible - i like both the Murren-Gimmelwald loop and boats on Lake Brienz - but the former really is nice only in nice weather - whereas the boat can be done in foul weather and the Ballenberg museum is weather-proof as well (though nicer weather is always nicer...)
and you need not do Ballenberg to enjoy the boat ride on Lake Brienz - yup there is a waterfall right by a boat dock - the Giessbach See dock - there is an antique funicular that takes you up to a famous hotel there that is right by a roaring water cascade - boat service is about hourly in season so you can get off and on easily. And when you get to Brienz, if not wanting to do Ballenberg, which does take a bit of time as it is vast - hop a train to Meiringen, a few minutes away and there on the edge of town you have the famous Reichenbach Falls - much bigger than Giessbach Falls even and famous for being the venue of where Sherlock Holmes pushed Prof Moriarity to his death in the falls. (I think i got that right!) And in Meiringen, a sweet regional town, there is in an old tiny church a Sherlock Holmes Museum. And trains back to Interlaken-Ost run all the time and take only about 20-30 mins. So even without Ballenberg Lake Brienz can be a sweet sweet day - even in foul weather.
My take on Ballenberg is that it is a great open-air folk museum - old buildings brought here and lots of demos of old-time crafts, etc. but in Switzerland i'd rather yes see waterfalls, take a boat ride, explore Meiringen, etc. - that is if time is limited and it is.
In nice weather i'd opt for the Murren/Schilthorn/Gimmelwald day - in poorer the boat ride on Lake Brienz, returning by train.
I'll tackle more of your Qs next time. Cheers
Dec 1st, 2009, 12:06 PM
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Passerine - please keep politico things separate from tourism advice that could be timeless - ten years from now, etc. And you seem to thing i am anti-Swiss not at all - but yes i have ranted recently about the Swiss vote to ban minarets in a national referendum - and with the use of inflammatory posters like those i saw of a minaret with shooting rockets (obviously Moslem terrorists) shooting out of them. SHAME ON THE SWISS PEOPLE
Dec 1st, 2009, 12:41 PM
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Pal...thank you for your one-time suggestion that Interlaken could be a very convenient base for day trips higher into the Alps. Worked out very well for us....staying at the Goldey Hotel on the beautiful, tranquil River aare, we had great view from our south-facing balcony...(Eiger, Munch and Jungfrau)..the daily trips we took all worked out very well in excellent sunshine (late October)...the 15 minute walk along the lovely promenade from the hotel to Interlaken Ost station was a pleasure. Thanks again...most others kind of gave Interlaken low marks as a base...happy we listened to you, old boy!
Here are some selected pix of our stay...use "slide show" to view. (I sort of went overboard on the fall foliage which was quite dramatic)
stu tower
http://picasaweb.google.com/stuartto...rOberland2009#
Here are some selected pix of our stay...use "slide show" to view. (I sort of went overboard on the fall foliage which was quite dramatic)
stu tower
http://picasaweb.google.com/stuartto...rOberland2009#
Dec 2nd, 2009, 12:39 PM
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tower - thanks for the thank you and for the great photos!
And yes the mantra here, even for folks who are Swiss experts, is that Interlaken is terrible - don't linger there anymore than you have to to get to higher climes.
But like you i loved Interlaken and have stayed there many many times and used it as a base. And i suspect that most of the Interlaken denigrators really never get off the yes Hackneyed main street full of souvenir shops, etc. They never get to the Aare River and the wondrous path that you mention - this path goes for well over a mile right along the rushing river - in a verdant setting - i often walk it and use the benches for a picnic spot - yup can see the Jungfrau Massif in all its majesty from some points.
Interlaken off the main drag, which many tourists never get off, is as lovely as town in Switzerland IMO - and the Matten area on the south edge borders meadows and farms and also has stunning views of the ice-girdled Jungfrau Massif.
Interlaken is often maligned and every time i see those comments i think 'let me show you the real Interlaken'
And as a base it's great - if the weather is poor you are already down in town and able to head to say Bern quickly - or in the late afternoon just hop a steamer for a cruise on Lake Thun, etc.
Cheers
And yes the mantra here, even for folks who are Swiss experts, is that Interlaken is terrible - don't linger there anymore than you have to to get to higher climes.
But like you i loved Interlaken and have stayed there many many times and used it as a base. And i suspect that most of the Interlaken denigrators really never get off the yes Hackneyed main street full of souvenir shops, etc. They never get to the Aare River and the wondrous path that you mention - this path goes for well over a mile right along the rushing river - in a verdant setting - i often walk it and use the benches for a picnic spot - yup can see the Jungfrau Massif in all its majesty from some points.
Interlaken off the main drag, which many tourists never get off, is as lovely as town in Switzerland IMO - and the Matten area on the south edge borders meadows and farms and also has stunning views of the ice-girdled Jungfrau Massif.
Interlaken is often maligned and every time i see those comments i think 'let me show you the real Interlaken'
And as a base it's great - if the weather is poor you are already down in town and able to head to say Bern quickly - or in the late afternoon just hop a steamer for a cruise on Lake Thun, etc.
Cheers
Dec 3rd, 2009, 09:44 AM
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Stu - the photo entitle 'Hotel idyllic setting' of your Aare River banks hotel shows really how idyllic the Aare River there is and how different this part of Interlaken is from say the main and yes rather tacky commercial drag in town - where there is (or was) even a Hooters - a novel Hooters - an outdoor one just for warm weather.
BTW i note in your hotel picture the train bridge nearby - this looks like the one that leads to Interlaken-Ost train station and it has an interesting history - the train tracks cross the Aare twice in town, for no apparent reason as the tracks could have been built originally all along the South Bank of the Aare but there was (thru research for an article i once wrote on Interlaken) fierce competition then between a boat company who ferried folks from Thun/Spiez to Interlaken and when the train line came they purposefully laid the rails on bridges at very low clearance just to prervent boats from the possibility of continuing onto Interlaken-Ost station, making the train a better option. Too bad because combo cruises today on both lakes, Brienz and Thun, bookending Interlaken could be a hit i guess.
Anyway back to Jungfrau Region trains - though Passerine on another thread has threatened to trash this thread because of comments i made over in the Lounge. IMO what goes on in the Lounge stays there and should stay there and not be mixed with Travel News. We'll see and go on anyway.
BTW i note in your hotel picture the train bridge nearby - this looks like the one that leads to Interlaken-Ost train station and it has an interesting history - the train tracks cross the Aare twice in town, for no apparent reason as the tracks could have been built originally all along the South Bank of the Aare but there was (thru research for an article i once wrote on Interlaken) fierce competition then between a boat company who ferried folks from Thun/Spiez to Interlaken and when the train line came they purposefully laid the rails on bridges at very low clearance just to prervent boats from the possibility of continuing onto Interlaken-Ost station, making the train a better option. Too bad because combo cruises today on both lakes, Brienz and Thun, bookending Interlaken could be a hit i guess.
Anyway back to Jungfrau Region trains - though Passerine on another thread has threatened to trash this thread because of comments i made over in the Lounge. IMO what goes on in the Lounge stays there and should stay there and not be mixed with Travel News. We'll see and go on anyway.
Dec 3rd, 2009, 09:54 AM
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Thanks for your comments and interesting facts about the bridge and river. The footbridge into town was very helpful and we walked it a few times...it is the track that goes on into Ost.
I avoid the lounge for precisely the same reasons...unsavory and sometimes iditoic, low-brow topics...you said the right thing to Passerine (it's a "she", by the way)
stu
I avoid the lounge for precisely the same reasons...unsavory and sometimes iditoic, low-brow topics...you said the right thing to Passerine (it's a "she", by the way)
stu
Dec 4th, 2009, 12:54 AM
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Tower, Pal has called for everyone to boycott, in his own words, ALL THINGS SWISS.
Now, ALL THINGS SWISS would include Swiss trains, would it not. And what do you call someone who urges--in capital letters and exclamation points--you to boycott something and then in his next breath, rushes over and urges you to enjoy the very same thing he wants you to boycott?!
A hypocrite. A phony. A sham moralizer. A coward who lacks the courage of his convictions. He never really wanted a boycott of (in HIS words, not mine) ALL THINGS SWISS; he was simply showing off a fake morality.
If he had condemne the Swiss action but NOT called for a boycott of ALL THINGS SWISS, then I could understand and support his continuing to post advice on Swiss trains. But that's not what happened He wants YOU, stu, and everyone else here to boycott ALL THINGS SWISS.
And that is why I posted a simple, one line question here on this thread--asking why and how he could reconcile his strident call for a boycott of ALL THINGS SWISS and then pop right over here to advocate continuing to use Swiss trains. Of course, I quickly got my answer: Pal is a self-serving hypocrite.
Now, ALL THINGS SWISS would include Swiss trains, would it not. And what do you call someone who urges--in capital letters and exclamation points--you to boycott something and then in his next breath, rushes over and urges you to enjoy the very same thing he wants you to boycott?!
A hypocrite. A phony. A sham moralizer. A coward who lacks the courage of his convictions. He never really wanted a boycott of (in HIS words, not mine) ALL THINGS SWISS; he was simply showing off a fake morality.
If he had condemne the Swiss action but NOT called for a boycott of ALL THINGS SWISS, then I could understand and support his continuing to post advice on Swiss trains. But that's not what happened He wants YOU, stu, and everyone else here to boycott ALL THINGS SWISS.
And that is why I posted a simple, one line question here on this thread--asking why and how he could reconcile his strident call for a boycott of ALL THINGS SWISS and then pop right over here to advocate continuing to use Swiss trains. Of course, I quickly got my answer: Pal is a self-serving hypocrite.
Dec 4th, 2009, 01:58 AM
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By the way, here are Pal's exact words in a thread HE started and kept topping:
"Boycott Swiss Cheese and Nestle and Swiss Banks and all things Swiss!"
"I will now keep a wary eye open to xenophobic Swiss lurking everywhere"
"May the CERN halidon collider create a Black Hole that swallows up all of Switzerland."
"A Pox on the Swiss country!"
"Boycott Swiss Cheese and Nestle and Swiss Banks and all things Swiss!"
"I will now keep a wary eye open to xenophobic Swiss lurking everywhere"
"May the CERN halidon collider create a Black Hole that swallows up all of Switzerland."
"A Pox on the Swiss country!"
Dec 4th, 2009, 05:01 AM
#98
How would you know? Have you ever been here before? Do you know what it's like here? You claim never to have been in Switzerland yet you know who is welcomed or not? You can do better than that. Your dead brain cells are showing.
Dec 4th, 2009, 05:21 AM
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I never went to Nazi Germany (which had similar laws, and it would seem similar views), or have met any actual Nazi voters. However I would know that “all are welcome” wouldn’t be true there would it?
So what’s the difference? The Swiss have chosen to enact a blatantly racist law to persecute a minority they don’t like.
Please don’t tell me that the swiss welcome “one and all” when they clearly don’t.
So what’s the difference? The Swiss have chosen to enact a blatantly racist law to persecute a minority they don’t like.
Please don’t tell me that the swiss welcome “one and all” when they clearly don’t.
Dec 4th, 2009, 05:40 AM
#100
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Anna, in case you are still reading, I'll copy your questions and maybe add a bit to the answers given aabove.
<<<1. How much time do I need for chateau de Chillon? The best part of the day or half a day? Should I visit ether Broc Chocolate factory or Gruyeres on the same day or is it too much?
2. Where would you recommend going from Interlaken, if I’d like to combine it with the boat ride? To Brienz? Is Ballenberg worth a visit? Any other place along the way? Some waterfalls, perhaps? I’ll probably have half a day for this.
3. How long would you say your suggested route in the Alps take? Does the Eurorail pass cover those trains / cable cars and so on? Any reservations needed? Do they run often?
4. When we reach Schilthorn what weather should we expect in August? Would there be ice or snow?>>>
Chateau de Chillon is a wonderful castle, and you can freely explore it without a guide. Our teenage daughters loved it (as did I). You might have your aughter read up a bit on it, and then go find Byron's signature in the dungeion. I love this photo of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Th...de_Chillon.jpg
You can walk there and back from Montreus along the lake. Maybe complete the day by exploring the path, or smaller towns like Vevey, instead of trying to crowd in a Chocolate Train trip on the same day.
2. If you want to see waterfalls on a boat ride from Interlaken, make a stop at Giessbach on Brienzersee and wwalk or ride the funicular up to the hotel (which looks like a fairy castle):
www.giessbach.ch
You and your daughter might enjoy lunch on the deck there.
3. I'll leave Eurorail questions to others (we've only used the Swiss passes). But I will answer the rest of this question: you do not need reservations in the mountain regions of the Berner Oberland, and the trains and cablecars do run frequently---usually at least one per hour.
The Lauterbrunnen---Mürren---Gimmelwald loop makes a nice day, with time for walks in each place, and a visit to Trummelbach Falls as well.
It is good to learn to use the Swiss rail website to view the schedules:
www.rail.ch (in English).
4. The top of the Schilthorn often has snow lingering into August, but it probably won't be completely covered. The hike down is for experienced hikers with proper footwear. My kids love the shoe sign at the top---indicating "no stiletto heels". (You'll see what I mean when you get there.) The weather itself can be quite warm if it is a sunny day, although the wind can be chilly, so take jackets if you want to spend time outside there.
<<<1. How much time do I need for chateau de Chillon? The best part of the day or half a day? Should I visit ether Broc Chocolate factory or Gruyeres on the same day or is it too much?
2. Where would you recommend going from Interlaken, if I’d like to combine it with the boat ride? To Brienz? Is Ballenberg worth a visit? Any other place along the way? Some waterfalls, perhaps? I’ll probably have half a day for this.
3. How long would you say your suggested route in the Alps take? Does the Eurorail pass cover those trains / cable cars and so on? Any reservations needed? Do they run often?
4. When we reach Schilthorn what weather should we expect in August? Would there be ice or snow?>>>
Chateau de Chillon is a wonderful castle, and you can freely explore it without a guide. Our teenage daughters loved it (as did I). You might have your aughter read up a bit on it, and then go find Byron's signature in the dungeion. I love this photo of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Th...de_Chillon.jpg
You can walk there and back from Montreus along the lake. Maybe complete the day by exploring the path, or smaller towns like Vevey, instead of trying to crowd in a Chocolate Train trip on the same day.
2. If you want to see waterfalls on a boat ride from Interlaken, make a stop at Giessbach on Brienzersee and wwalk or ride the funicular up to the hotel (which looks like a fairy castle):
www.giessbach.ch
You and your daughter might enjoy lunch on the deck there.
3. I'll leave Eurorail questions to others (we've only used the Swiss passes). But I will answer the rest of this question: you do not need reservations in the mountain regions of the Berner Oberland, and the trains and cablecars do run frequently---usually at least one per hour.
The Lauterbrunnen---Mürren---Gimmelwald loop makes a nice day, with time for walks in each place, and a visit to Trummelbach Falls as well.
It is good to learn to use the Swiss rail website to view the schedules:
www.rail.ch (in English).
4. The top of the Schilthorn often has snow lingering into August, but it probably won't be completely covered. The hike down is for experienced hikers with proper footwear. My kids love the shoe sign at the top---indicating "no stiletto heels". (You'll see what I mean when you get there.) The weather itself can be quite warm if it is a sunny day, although the wind can be chilly, so take jackets if you want to spend time outside there.
