jessicagerrity4173

Hello

We've got 2 weeks at the end of December into the New Year (app Dec 27-Jan 12) to plan an adventure and I'm very tempted to visit Rome during epiphany both for the religious aspect and to experience the city without the heat. I'd like to combine this with a more wintery destination as well and would love to find a place that keeps its Christmas markets open through the New Year to be able to catch some of that environment. My husband is a musician and I thought Salzburg might be a great choice for us. My tentative plan would be:

Dec 27 Fly from the US to Frankfurt, sleep several hours at the airport in one of the on site hotels, and then take a short flight into Salzburg arriving in the late afternoon on Dec 28

Dec 28-Jan 3 in Salzburg. Would plan to stay at a family hotel with pool/onsite amenities and relax/soak up the ambiance of the area. Do markets, horse drawn sleigh, sound of music tour, mozarts highlights, possibly Hallstatt or ice cave daytrip

Transit to Rome either via OBB Nightjet on the 3rd or flight (from munich?) on the 4th.

Jan 4-12 in Rome with daytrips to pompeii and assisi

Jan 12 fly home


Some questions for those wiser than I:
-Is this a silly pairing given the distance? The kicker here is that this would be my husband and I and our 4 kids traveling and its our first time to Europe. We travel fairly extensively within the US and did a long trip to England this year, but this is a different ballpark being outside of our comfort zone language-wise.

- Does anyone know how extensive the public transportation network is in the area near Salzburg. Could we visit things like the silent night chapel and Berchtesgaden via train efficiently or is a car worthwhile/necessary?

-Does anyone have experience on the OBB Nightjet on that route that could comment on how terrible (or not) this would be to attempt with children? I like the thought of traveling while we sleep to optimize time, but am not sure how cramped the cabins are and am a little afraid the idea would backfire if people were uncomfortable and didn't sleep.

-We will attempt to brush up on some passable German and Italian. Is English at all common in either of these areas that we should be able to get by with studying up for a few months or is it smarter to chose just one country/language and study more intensively?

When is the epiphany procession in Rome? It seems as though this happens annually in the late morning though its quite difficult to find concrete information.

Any tips for the most efficient way to visit Assisi? I'd really like to do this for religious reasons, but it seems a bit difficult to get there

Thanks for any advice/insight anyone can provide It's very much appreciated

SusanP

Can't comment on Salzburg, but for a day trip from Rome to Assisi, it's 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hours by train, which is kind of far for a day trip. Plus, the real problem is that it looks as though the first train leaving Rome for Assisi doesn't leave until 1:00-2:00 pm, so that just won't work.

Pompeii is also a long day. You don't say how old your kids are, but I don't know that I'd want to do it with four kids.

Travel_Nerd

Berchtesgaden, unless something has changed, closes from October to April, even with a car. Can't comment on the chapel idea but I imagine there would be winter concerts around the city. Salzburg is not a big city, really. What are your plans if the weather is poor in either city?

Personally, I'd choose Vienna over Salzburg for the music connection - might have more concerts, more museums if weather is poor, etc.

Language: learn the basics, but you dont have to be fluent. Please, thank you, hello, good bye, etc. go a long way in every language.

No experience with OBB night trains. But so have experience on DB in a 4-person sleeper car. It was cramped and uncomfortable - got hardly any sleep. If your family does a 6 person (assuming due to your size), anticipate it being tighter. But, perhaps OBB is a better experience.

Edited to add: for a winter experience, have you considered alpine areas in Italy/Switzerland or even France? Doesn't necessarily have a music connection but might give you that experience without fussing over a night train to Austria.

swandav2000

Hi jessicagarrity,

If you keep your current destinations of Salzburg & Rome, why not fly into Munich?? Soooo much closer to Salzburg (which is lovely). You'd just take a train from the airport into the city, spend a night, then take a quick train over to Salzburg. Seems a much easier way to get there.

I've taken a number of night trains, and I adore them, including the one that links Munich & Rome. But then I always choose a private compartment that includes a toilet.... But in any case, I find sleeper trains magical, a throwback to travel in the 1940s & 1950s.

Have fun as you plan!

s

uktravelover

There are some fast trains from Rome Termini station to Assisi taking between 2 hours 7 minutes to 2 hours 20 minutes, but the January timetable is not available yet. Looking at November for example you could catch an 08.02 train to Assisi and a 16.27 return which would give you plenty of time to get to the cathedral and visit anything else you want to. Tickets cost around €12each way for standard class. Otherwise you would need to look at hiring a car for the day but the drive would be a similar time. There is parking in a pay and display car park below the cathedral. A private transfer will cost about €60+ each way depending on the number of passengers.

jessicagerrity4173

Thanks for the feedback

I originally thought Id shoot for the alsace region of France for the first portion, but then pivoted to Salzburg because we were able to find a resort hotel that catered to families and we liked the music history piece. I also thought the train transport seemed like it would be easier, however maybe that's not the case. I did also consider a first base in the north of Italy-maybe verona? It seemed like we could then visit both Venice to the east (without risking as much with the aqua Alta by staying there) and the Dolomites to the north (Bolzano possibly?) Do either of those sound like a better plan?

Thanks again!

annhig

Venice always sounds good to me, and though it can be cold in January, it's not likely to be much colder than Rome. And the numbers of tourists should be lower than in most of the rest of the year. Plus the vaporettos are pretty well heated inside so if you buy passes you can always jump on one and warm up. Plenty of cafes selling very yummy hot chocolate too which I'm sure your kids would like and great pastries called 'fritelle" which are only made in the run up to Carnevale in February.

Oops now I've reread your post I see that you were thinking of staying in Verona and visiting Venice which is certainly an option [it's 75 mins on the train each way so not too bad] and might prevent you having too many heart attacks when your offspring make a beeline for the canal edge depending on their ages.

Travel_Nerd

Personally, I'd stay in Venice and do Verona as a day trip (I did that last year). With likely reduced crowds in both cities, you'd be able to maximize your time than if it were high season. I know aqua alta is a consideration. You need to decide if packing rain boots are necessary.

I did miss in your original thread where you mentioned Christmas markets. This might actually fit into your possibility of Alscase a bit better. I'm not in the "know" about Christmas markets but this is a common topic around here and I suggest you search for them. Not many operate past Christmas Eve, IIRC, but there might be one or two in the Alscace region or Germany that do.

I know when you're planning a trip for the first time like this it becomes sort of a "or we could go here" or even "let's do this, too!" You got to figure in your actual goals for your destinations and analyze if it makes sense to include them, especially as a family of 6. Sort out distances between destinations using train schedules, and do not forget about the shorter days of daylight including reduced hours at landmarks and museums.

Melnq8

Berchtesgaden, unless something has changed, closes from October to April

Berchtesgaden doesn't close! It's a town, with year round residents. The Eagles Nest, near Berchtesgaden, is seasonal, but the OP didn't even mention it.

We've visited Berchtesgaden in winter several times, it's a lovely area. The Konigsee is beautiful in winter, as is the ride on the Jennerbahn cable car.

It's very easy to get around Germany and Austria on public transport, and English is widely spoken.

Salzburg is one of the few places I've found where the Christmas Markets run longer than most, usually through Jan 1. We're spending Christmas there this year (again). You'll have no trouble filling your time there. A trip to the Salzkammergut is easy from Salzburg and rather unique in winter.

Here's a list of Salzburg markets and dates:

https://www.austria.info/en/things-t...rkets/salzburg

If you haven't discovered the fantastic Salzburg website yet, check it out:

https://www.salzburg.info/en

For some ideas of all there is to see and do in Salzburg in winter, you might want to take a look at this trip report from a winter visit with my neice (Salzburg is towards the bottom):

The Boomer and the Gen-Zer: A trip of firsts

I agree with swandav - flying into Munich makes more sense than Frankfurt.

Travel_Nerd

Omg. I'm so embarrassed. An entire sentence got left out as I intended to reply. I'm so sorry and thanks for the correction. Note to self: dont reply at 10pm ever again.

Melnq8

I figured as much Travel_Nerd. It happens.

basingstoke2

Just to add my 2 cents worth. I assume that since you are considering Salzburg, your husband must be classically trained. If that is the case so am I and have been to Salzburg and Vienna and IMO much prefer Vienna from the musical interest pov. True that Salzburg has the birthplace of Mozart that you can visit and various ensembles giving concerts that vary in quality and are geared toward tourists. In Salzburg Mozart is a major industry and a place where you can load up on Mozart branded candy. and Mozart kitsch such as pencils, pens, coffee cups, etc,. Ironic in that Mozart disliked Salzburg and could not wait to leave.

In Vienna you have a more vibrant varied and serious music scene and can visit the home of several composers including Beethoven. There is a wonderful musical instrument museum. When there we stayed at the Best Western Tigre hotel. Its building incorporates the one where Leopold Mozart brought little Wolfgang at age 6 to play his first Vienna concert. The hall where it happened is very near the hotel. That hotel is also where Wolfgang had his first apartment when he lived in Vienna as an adult.

From Vienna you can take the tram out to the Grinzing district which is festive during the holiday season and a home of wine bar/restaurants called Heureger serving local wine and during Christmas season you are likely to find Christmas goose. A strolling violinist or singer would not be unusual. Vienna is also about a 4 hour bus ride to Prague which is well worth your while if you have the time.