Safe to Rent an Apartment in Paris?
Jul 15th, 2010, 07:01 PM
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks everyone,
I feel more confident about renting an apartment. I will go through a reputable agency. However, I have rented apartments in Hawaii through VRBO in the past and have not been disappointed. I guess I'm a little more hesitant renting in Paris. I'm thinking if I went with an agency, if something fell through, they most likely would have other alternatives; whereas, renting directly through an owner might be limiting. I know there are valid opinions out there. Any opinions??
p.s. Sap, couldn't understand your comment...you rented through VIP and have gone through them to owners directly?? I thought VIP was an agency representing owners....
I feel more confident about renting an apartment. I will go through a reputable agency. However, I have rented apartments in Hawaii through VRBO in the past and have not been disappointed. I guess I'm a little more hesitant renting in Paris. I'm thinking if I went with an agency, if something fell through, they most likely would have other alternatives; whereas, renting directly through an owner might be limiting. I know there are valid opinions out there. Any opinions??
p.s. Sap, couldn't understand your comment...you rented through VIP and have gone through them to owners directly?? I thought VIP was an agency representing owners....
Jul 16th, 2010, 04:20 AM
#22
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe this will help clear up some confusion. We have a modest agency and work directly with a limited number of owners in Paris. We have heard no concerns from them about a crackdown.
While arrangements vary, in most cases an agency adds a fee to the price of the apartment as payment for their services. Someone who wants to spend the time and take the chance on their own can search the Web and deal directly.
Payment and contract arrangements also vary. In some cases you will pay the agency its fee and they will simply put you in touch with the owner, who may send you a contract. In others you will make your down payment - typically half - and pay the rest on arrival. I believe VIP collects full payment in advance, which is a bit different, but people seem to like them.
So it's possible to deal with an agency and the owner, who you often make at least the final payment to in person. With large agencies and absentee owners, you could even deal with the agency initially, the owner for the contract and deposit and a third-party greeter on arrival. Mais oui!
Alyce, you are right to believe an agency should be able to help if anything goes awry, and that is one of the reasons people use them (us). Even with an agency, though, be sure you are comfortable with the property and location, and ask questions until you are satisfied.
While arrangements vary, in most cases an agency adds a fee to the price of the apartment as payment for their services. Someone who wants to spend the time and take the chance on their own can search the Web and deal directly.
Payment and contract arrangements also vary. In some cases you will pay the agency its fee and they will simply put you in touch with the owner, who may send you a contract. In others you will make your down payment - typically half - and pay the rest on arrival. I believe VIP collects full payment in advance, which is a bit different, but people seem to like them.
So it's possible to deal with an agency and the owner, who you often make at least the final payment to in person. With large agencies and absentee owners, you could even deal with the agency initially, the owner for the contract and deposit and a third-party greeter on arrival. Mais oui!
Alyce, you are right to believe an agency should be able to help if anything goes awry, and that is one of the reasons people use them (us). Even with an agency, though, be sure you are comfortable with the property and location, and ask questions until you are satisfied.
Jul 16th, 2010, 04:32 AM
#23
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Celticharper:
I stayed in the apartment you referenced in your July 12 post. There were 3 of us. It was a bit of a tight squeeze at time, but we made it work. I too loved the location of the apartment.
TR
I stayed in the apartment you referenced in your July 12 post. There were 3 of us. It was a bit of a tight squeeze at time, but we made it work. I too loved the location of the apartment.
TR
Jul 30th, 2010, 05:13 PM
#25
My opinion is I'd rather stay in a hotel. Seriously, I love the security of knowing what I'm getting into, having a front desk staff to assist me, not having to figure out any idiosycracies of an apartment, etc. etc. I guess if I was staying for months, I'd look into it, but for a short stay, hotels are for me.
Jul 30th, 2010, 07:04 PM
#26
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I won't stay in a hotel again (except for 2-3 nights). We switched to apartments a few years ago and never looked back. We are part of the neighborhood for a short period of time. The DH or I can take a nap, read a book or use the laptop while the other is in the living room watching tv without disturbing. We can pick up a few things and put them in the fridge for a late night snack or quick breakfast. We have room to stretch and a table to sit at (we play cards in the evenings sometimes). Finally, we get SO much more bang for the buck!
Jul 30th, 2010, 08:22 PM
#27
I have to agree with the apartment "thing". No more hotels in Paris for us. We either do www.vrbo.com or www.guestapartment.com when we want to spend a little more for luxury, their service is outstanding.
Aug 1st, 2010, 05:34 PM
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand your point of view, Suze. After so much research I am often ready to go the hotel route. However, we usually rent condo's whenever we can and have stayed on agritourisimos in Italy. Apartments are great...I guess I would like to know where I'm staying is reputable. TPAYT...can you recommend a vrbo place??
Aug 12th, 2010, 07:01 PM
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks everyone for all the info that ultimately helped me make a decision....a leap of faith from California...(and many hours of research)....I'm in the process of contracting with Paris Best Lodge....great looking apartment and many good reviews...which I found to be invaluable..thanks to this site and all the people that take the time to put forth their experiences...for newbies like me it is so helpful...
Aug 13th, 2010, 06:47 PM
#30
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alyce,
FYI, about a Paris apartment rental agent, < http://www.parisapartmentrental.biz/ >, who operates out of San Francisco. Have a fun trip, but also check diligently about both apartments and their agents, as two separate dimensions. Forums such as this are vital resources. Thanks.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ommendable.cfm
FYI, about a Paris apartment rental agent, < http://www.parisapartmentrental.biz/ >, who operates out of San Francisco. Have a fun trip, but also check diligently about both apartments and their agents, as two separate dimensions. Forums such as this are vital resources. Thanks.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ommendable.cfm
Aug 18th, 2010, 02:03 PM
#31
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VRBO has allowed my watered-down review of this Paris apartment agent. Previously non-communicative, the agent now acknowledges my overcharge claims, but also says how they were automatically refunded, with full billing explanations. Based upon independent credit-card records, that is not the case. I have sent a screen-shot of his response to my credit-card company, in case he tries later to revise. Be careful. Thank you.
http://www.vrbo.com/228027
http://www.vrbo.com/228027
Aug 18th, 2010, 05:01 PM
#32
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UPDATE: Jose Arturo Ibarra, the not-recommended agent at < http://www.parisapartmentrental.biz/ >, just opted his listing out of site-compliant user reviews, upon realizing how I could document his un-explained, un-refunded overcharges and his refusal to issue itemized billing.
This shows how VRBO reviews are biased against honest traveler feedback. You can post here, if you wish to contact me via LinkedIn for details. Be careful with such "reputable" services, or vendor-screened customer reviews. Thank you.
This shows how VRBO reviews are biased against honest traveler feedback. You can post here, if you wish to contact me via LinkedIn for details. Be careful with such "reputable" services, or vendor-screened customer reviews. Thank you.
Aug 23rd, 2010, 04:28 PM
#33
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The other web URL of that agent is < http://www.RentParisNow.com />. Thank you.
Oct 10th, 2010, 12:20 PM
#34
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We thank winehunter for posting our name, number and website. We welcome any requests about this event and are happy to respond to them. We would like to post our reply we posted on the other areas where winehunter has been posting as NYBondGeek.
It is sad that someone would want to cause such harm to a business after everything that transpired.
Here is the information that we provided to VRBO.
This document contains the following topics.
• Thank you & Introduction
• Customer service record
• Record of accounting, emails and chronological order of events
• Conclusion
• Recommendation to VRBO
Thank you & Introduction
We are happy to provide you (VRBO) our side of the story and we thank you for allowing us the opportunity to do so. We would like to state from the start that NYBondGeek neglected to inform you in his write up that he did receive two refunds from us, one for 25.00 Euros and another for $200.00, that he himself calculated and that we were kind enough to honor even though the contract he signed clearly stated that we were not responsible for any refund whatsoever. He also neglected to tell you about our impeccable customer service we provided that went beyond the call of duty due to the Volcano eruption in Iceland. Our presentation will also demonstrate that NYBondGeek took great detail throughout our entire experience to make certain he either negotiated a better rate or was not over charged.
Customer service record
From FEB 19, 2010 to the present we have on record over 60 email communications with NYBondGeek, many phone calls (local and long distance to Europe that were charged to us not NYBondGeek) and a good amount of text messaging to Europe (again charged to us not to NYBondGeek). All of them attest to our impeccable service we have provided him and his wife ..... NYBondGeek originally rented 6 nights at our apartment VRBO # 242308 and his stay coincided with the Volcano incident that stopped European travel. Upon hearing of the affect the Volcano would have on NYBondGeek and many of our other guests, we rapidly moved to accommodate him and his wife as well as many of our other guests.
The emails between NYBondGeek and us during and following the Volcano eruption (on file), attest to the satisfaction of our primary objective (of making certain we assist our guests to the fullest extent). If you would like every email in our possession to be sent to you (VRBO) we would be happy to provide them.
Record of accounting, emails and chronological order of events
On FEB 19, 2010 NYBondGeek requested to book our apartment VRBO # 242308 for a period of 6 nights. We provided a three page contract to NYBondGeek with our exact rate of 175.00 Euros per night for a total of 1,050.00 Euros. Additionally NYBondGeek had to agree and signed our contract, which requested the following handwritten element, (Guest Signature (With handwritten mention) “Read and approved.”). The contract also contained our cancellation policy.
“Cancellation policy:
Should you cancel your reservation of 3 to 14 nights stay, more than 45 days in advance, the full reservation deposit will be repaid less 150€ in booking and processing fees, if 45 days or less no refund of total rental charge will be made. Should you cancel your reservation of 14 nights stay and higher, more than 60 days in advance, the full reservation deposit will be repaid less 300€ in booking and processing fees, if 60 days or less no refund of total rental charge will be made. Any reservation cancelled 44 days in advance full payment will be automatically charged.”
Our cancellation policy has been in NYBondGeek’s possession for over 70 days. To confirm the reservation and per our contract we had to collect 25 percent of the total cost which was 262.50 Euros ($370.35) on FEB 22, 2010 and we email him a detail receipt for such charges. Per our contract 10 days prior (MAR 29, 2010) to his arrival in Paris we charged the remainder of the rental, which was 787.50 Euros ($1,074.21). NYBondGeek received a detail email receipt for such charges.
Upon the disruption to European travel caused by the Volcano, we immediately informed NYBondGeek that we could accommodate him for an extra night at the same apartment. In keeping with our extraordinary service we agreed not to charge him the extra night right away because we (him and us) were considering further accommodations at our second property, enough days to cover any further delays due to the Volcano. As NYBondGeek assessed his situation he returned to us with his decision to do the following; him and his wife .... would depart the property they were at for two nights and stay at a nearby Hotel. They would then move to our second property VRBO # 228027 for a period of three nights (our minimum stay). Out of our generosity we informed him that we would process the charge for the last night at our first property and only two nights at our second property, even though we would be reserving our second property for three nights, to comply with our three night minimum policy. We also informed him that if he cancelled the reservation this amount would not be refundable. The charge would be 175.00 Euros for the 7th night for our first apartment and 280.00 Euros for the two nights at our second apartment for a total of 455.00 Euros ($641.06) which was charged on APR 17, 2010, and we emailed him a detail receipt for such charges.
Upon receiving our bill of APR 17, 2010 NYBondGeek wanted an exact breakdown of what we had charged. Upon answering such request, NYBondGeek informed us that our Paris representative had agreed to a charge of 150.00 Euros per night. We knew this not to be true, but once again out of our generosity and our understanding of how stressful this situation was becoming we informed him we would reimburse him the 25.00 Euros at a later date as we all continued to work with the Volcano situation.
NYBondGeek was extremely pleased with all of our services and each day we communicated with him via emails, text messages and phone calls. It was becoming clear to him and his wife that they were going to have to stay longer and we requested that he please make a final decision because we had other guests to accommodate and needed to make the best decisions everyone could make. He had already booked from APR 19 to APR 21 (3 nights) but out of our generosity he had only been charged for two.
As he assessed his situation he wanted to negotiate our nightly rate lower. He had gotten word from the Airlines that he would be able to depart Paris on APR 25th and he told us he had a reservation on a flight. We agreed that if he extended his stay until the 25th we would lower our nightly rate to 130.00 Euros. We communicated with him and let him know that other guests had wanted the apartment but we were giving him and his wife .... first priority because they were already at the apartment. We all agreed to the language of our contract and we emailed him in exact detail of what we were going to charge for the rest of his stay (495.00 Euros which equaled $680.91). Here is what we wrote in our email: “Here is what we will do. We have charged you for the two nights at 140.00 Euros and we will charge the rest of the nights until the 25th at 130.00 Euros. We will charge the 520.00 Euros (130 X 4) minus the 25 Euros we owe you for a total charge of 495.00 Euros.”
We provided a receipt of the charges to APR 25 on APR 19 and on APR 20 NYBondGeek emailed several desperate and odd emails telling our staff in Paris that we had authorized his departure (a lie) and shortly after he emails us letting us know the following: “We are leaving Paris after tonight.” “We have left the apartment in tidy shape. Both key sets are on the bookcase. A bag of rubbish is in the kitchen, as we did not know where to throw it. Thanks.”
NYBondGeek’s emails clearly insinuated that he was experiencing a fast departure from France. NYBondGeek made a contractual commitment to stay at our apartment until APR 25, we were unaware, as his emails prove beyond any doubt, that at the same time he was negotiating with us he was negotiating with either the Airlines, other apartment owners, hotel accommodations or planning to stay at another location.
Even though he was aware of his contractual commitment to our second property and the fact that we had told him we had denied others our apartment to accommodate him and his wife ...., it was of no concern to him. Promptly on APR 21st he was requesting that we process a refund he had already calculated, his words were: “I puled together this schedule of our stays, and the charges to my credit card Please confirm if you would be processing a refund of approximately $395.
Also, please let us know where we can leave positive feedback on our experience with your company. Thank you.”
In disbelief and stunned over this request we replied with another accommodating email and we wrote: “We are having a very hard time refunding the money because we had to say no to several other people that were also stranded and still are stranded in Paris. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.”
NYBondGeek demanded his full $395.00 refund and we replied with the following: “We accommodated you at the first apartment for the extra night. We then accommodated you at the second apartment. We honored the 150.00 rate rather then the 175.00 rate you already knew about. We provided you with a two night rental charge even though we had a three night minimum, as a gesture that we understood the situation. You then requested a reduction because you had made a decision to stay until APR 25. We did not charge you the remainder until APR 19 which is after you had indicated you would be staying until APR 25. All along we kept shuffling other people so that we could accommodate everyone. After your decision to stay until the 25th we still had other people that needed housing and they were not given the apartment you stayed at because of your decision to stay until the 25th. As you can see the majority of the time it has been us giving, giving and giving. Please remember we did not have to do a single thing, but that is not the way we operate.”
At this point NYBondGeek replied with the following: “We look forward to visiting Paris again soon, staying at your properties, while recommending your firm also to our friends and family. May I respectfully suggest that we meet in the middle, at $200? Thank you.”
Again out of our generosity we replied: “In keeping with our method of doing business, we will agree to a 200.00 USD refund. We are not doing it to meet each other half way, we are doing it because we are understanding people and realize that what took place was under no ones control.
Please consider the accounts settled and provide with an agreement via email to us. Upon hearing your response we will process the 200.00 USD refund to your CC on file.”
NYBondGeek replied with the following legal and binding agreement to our proposal and his final yes on the settlement of our financial relationship: “This works fine. Thank you. Is there an ideal site where we can post open recommendations for your services and properties? I plan to post positively and sincerely at least on the Robert Parker wine discussion forum, where many discriminating worldwide travel and wine enthusiasts make referrals to each other.”
We replied: “As you have found out – reviews are posted in various websites and of course we would love anything you post about us. Please reference our website as - http://www.rentparisnow.com – you can also provide us with your testimonial and we will post it on our website at - parisapartmentrental.biz/testimonials.html -
The following two links will also take you to websites where you can post your input.
http://www.vrbo.com/242308#comments
http://www.vrbo.com/228027#comments
Thank you and we will process the refund shortly.”
On APR 21, 2010 we processed the credit of $200.00 and emailed NYBondGeek the detail receipt for his records.
On APR 21, 2010 NYBondGeek replies with the following email with a link to his post on a website: “http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/...=220018“
* and adds – “FYI. I will post also to VRBO and perhaps TripAdvisor. Thank you.”
We replied on APR 21, 2010: “Thank you and we look forward to your future posts.”
He replied on APR 21, 2010: “Thank you.”
We later received a notification of a positive post on VRBO referencing our services.
On APR 26, 2010 we received the following email from NYBondGeek. “The positive VRBO reviews are posted now. .... and I finally got home on late Saturday night. Whew!”
We again were stunned at the realization that Saturday night was APR 24 and even more stunned because even though the Volcano caused a great deal of delays and to date we have heard many horror stories, we know for a fact that it did not take anyone approximately 4 nights and 5 days traveling on Airplanes to get from Paris, France to New York where NYBondGeek resides.
NYBondGeek’s email continues: “At last, I have sufficient time and computer access to double-check my CC charges. In the craziness last week, when we agreed upon $2,200 as your final total billing for the two apartments, we both forgot about the February 22 reservation deposit of $370.35. May you please kindly arrange to refund that?
I have attached the original spreadsheet which we used to estimate my total payments, and a corrected one, including screen-shots from my Citibank CC statements. Thank you.”
We replied: “We thank you for the kind postings on the various sites and we look forward to accommodating you in the future. All transactions regarding your rental are settled and no further refunds can be processed. We were very clear with you that we did not have to refund a single penny. Out of our kindness and because of the way we conduct business as we indicated in our emails we decided to agree with your estimate not ours. We also asked you to agree with us prior to processing the refund and you did.
Again we are very happy we assisted many people in need during the Volcano and especially for you and your wife. So glad all worked out so well.”
As the events have developed and today with NYBondGeek alleging all sorts of negative innuendos about our service we take this new finding as the greatest of insult, a complete slap in the face, especially since our generosity has gone far beyond the call of duty and after we spent hours and hours attending to over 60 emails, many phone calls and text messages from NYBondGeek.
What exactly took place from APR 21 to APR 26 only NYBondGeek and his wife .... can tell us, we are guessing that NYBondGeek decided to move to other accommodations. He did this of his own accord and in full knowledge of his violation of our rental agreement. Adding to this, his actions blatantly spit on the other poor people that could have used our apartment. People that ended up getting stuck for several days and nights at filthy airports “sewers” (to use NYBondGeek’s words when we spoke about the state of the airports in Europe) and with nowhere to sleep or take a shower.
On APR 26, 2010 NYBondGeek writes, “Still lacking any itemized billing/payment statement, both you and I overlooked the $370.35 which you had charged way back in February 22 on my credit card.” – at this point you the reader can see the absurdity of his statement that an itemized billing has not been provided and his statement is also attempting to once again place blame for his actions to another person.
NYBondGeek continues, “You billing should be timely, complete, and accurate. I should not absorb any discrepancy if otherwise, and again request a correcting refund of that $370.35 overpayment.” – bringing the reader to question the mindset of such thought process.
While the dialog continued VRBO informed us that the recent favorable testimonial posted by NYBondGeek was being removed at the request of NYBondGeek.
On APR 28, 2010 we received a threat from NYBondGeek, – “Contrary to what you said below, you issued no preliminary or final statement of the agreed-upon, incurred rentals, for comparison against the lump credit-card charges. Your e-mails of those lump charges simply do not constitute one. While awaiting your itemized bill, I resorted to drafting my own initial estimate....... which was exactly that, just an initial estimate. I needed to see if the incurred rentals matched your credit-card charges, which they clearly did not.
I would prefer for us to resolve this privately, rather than asking for my credit-card company to assist. Please advise. Thank you.” - shortly after this threat, we received your (VRBO) request to respond to his charges.
NYBondGeek writes his charges to you (VRBO) and states, “Apartment operator has overbilled, but will not refund.
We stayed at VRBO apartments #228027 and 242308 in Paris. Ultimately, the operator and I agreed to meet in the middle, at $2200 as the total cost for my apartment stays.
Still lacking any itemized billing/payment statement, both the operator and I overlooked the $370.35 which it had charged way back in February 22 on my credit card. If the operator were to keep this, that would raise the final total charges to $2570.35, clearly exceeding the agreed-upon $2200 total.
Rental billing should be timely, complete, and accurate. I should not absorb
any discrepancy if otherwise, and again requested a correcting refund of
that $370.35 overpayment.” – clearly his charges are a complete misrepresentation of events and deprived of any validity.
Conclusion
Our files on this issue demonstrate that NYBondGeek broke the contract for his rental agreement and they demonstrate the pride we take in making certain we provide good customer service. They also demonstrate that at every step of the process, contrary to what NYBondGeek has stated, we have provided detail records of all of our charges. As if that was not enough they also demonstrate our generosity with NYBondGeek regarding the two refunds we processed, two refunds that legally he was not entitled to receive.
Not only has NYBondGeek distorted the truth about all of the events, he has also used a simple but famous type of manipulative behavior, claiming those involved had already agreed with him making his actions justified at every turn and in his estimate he should be rewarded. As pointed out in his own words and in his own emails; he informed me that our Paris staff had told him we would charge him 150.00 Euros for the extra night (a lie), he informed our Paris staff that we had authorized him to depart from the apartment (a lie), he indicates in his email to you (VRBO) that I had already agreed to refund him additional money (another lie) and to add insult to injury he states that we both overlooked a payment (his most blatant lie to date).
Recommendation to VRBO
We hold ourselves to very high standards when performing our service and we are glad that VRBO is also exercising these valuable tool to make certain those of us using their service are held to such standards, we also hope VRBO makes certain that those using their service and ours like NYBondGeek are banned from any of the VRBO websites in the hopes that other owners, representatives or managers of properties do not have to put up with the factual experience we are going through.
Sincerely,
Jose Arturo Ibarra
It is sad that someone would want to cause such harm to a business after everything that transpired.
Here is the information that we provided to VRBO.
This document contains the following topics.
• Thank you & Introduction
• Customer service record
• Record of accounting, emails and chronological order of events
• Conclusion
• Recommendation to VRBO
Thank you & Introduction
We are happy to provide you (VRBO) our side of the story and we thank you for allowing us the opportunity to do so. We would like to state from the start that NYBondGeek neglected to inform you in his write up that he did receive two refunds from us, one for 25.00 Euros and another for $200.00, that he himself calculated and that we were kind enough to honor even though the contract he signed clearly stated that we were not responsible for any refund whatsoever. He also neglected to tell you about our impeccable customer service we provided that went beyond the call of duty due to the Volcano eruption in Iceland. Our presentation will also demonstrate that NYBondGeek took great detail throughout our entire experience to make certain he either negotiated a better rate or was not over charged.
Customer service record
From FEB 19, 2010 to the present we have on record over 60 email communications with NYBondGeek, many phone calls (local and long distance to Europe that were charged to us not NYBondGeek) and a good amount of text messaging to Europe (again charged to us not to NYBondGeek). All of them attest to our impeccable service we have provided him and his wife ..... NYBondGeek originally rented 6 nights at our apartment VRBO # 242308 and his stay coincided with the Volcano incident that stopped European travel. Upon hearing of the affect the Volcano would have on NYBondGeek and many of our other guests, we rapidly moved to accommodate him and his wife as well as many of our other guests.
The emails between NYBondGeek and us during and following the Volcano eruption (on file), attest to the satisfaction of our primary objective (of making certain we assist our guests to the fullest extent). If you would like every email in our possession to be sent to you (VRBO) we would be happy to provide them.
Record of accounting, emails and chronological order of events
On FEB 19, 2010 NYBondGeek requested to book our apartment VRBO # 242308 for a period of 6 nights. We provided a three page contract to NYBondGeek with our exact rate of 175.00 Euros per night for a total of 1,050.00 Euros. Additionally NYBondGeek had to agree and signed our contract, which requested the following handwritten element, (Guest Signature (With handwritten mention) “Read and approved.”). The contract also contained our cancellation policy.
“Cancellation policy:
Should you cancel your reservation of 3 to 14 nights stay, more than 45 days in advance, the full reservation deposit will be repaid less 150€ in booking and processing fees, if 45 days or less no refund of total rental charge will be made. Should you cancel your reservation of 14 nights stay and higher, more than 60 days in advance, the full reservation deposit will be repaid less 300€ in booking and processing fees, if 60 days or less no refund of total rental charge will be made. Any reservation cancelled 44 days in advance full payment will be automatically charged.”
Our cancellation policy has been in NYBondGeek’s possession for over 70 days. To confirm the reservation and per our contract we had to collect 25 percent of the total cost which was 262.50 Euros ($370.35) on FEB 22, 2010 and we email him a detail receipt for such charges. Per our contract 10 days prior (MAR 29, 2010) to his arrival in Paris we charged the remainder of the rental, which was 787.50 Euros ($1,074.21). NYBondGeek received a detail email receipt for such charges.
Upon the disruption to European travel caused by the Volcano, we immediately informed NYBondGeek that we could accommodate him for an extra night at the same apartment. In keeping with our extraordinary service we agreed not to charge him the extra night right away because we (him and us) were considering further accommodations at our second property, enough days to cover any further delays due to the Volcano. As NYBondGeek assessed his situation he returned to us with his decision to do the following; him and his wife .... would depart the property they were at for two nights and stay at a nearby Hotel. They would then move to our second property VRBO # 228027 for a period of three nights (our minimum stay). Out of our generosity we informed him that we would process the charge for the last night at our first property and only two nights at our second property, even though we would be reserving our second property for three nights, to comply with our three night minimum policy. We also informed him that if he cancelled the reservation this amount would not be refundable. The charge would be 175.00 Euros for the 7th night for our first apartment and 280.00 Euros for the two nights at our second apartment for a total of 455.00 Euros ($641.06) which was charged on APR 17, 2010, and we emailed him a detail receipt for such charges.
Upon receiving our bill of APR 17, 2010 NYBondGeek wanted an exact breakdown of what we had charged. Upon answering such request, NYBondGeek informed us that our Paris representative had agreed to a charge of 150.00 Euros per night. We knew this not to be true, but once again out of our generosity and our understanding of how stressful this situation was becoming we informed him we would reimburse him the 25.00 Euros at a later date as we all continued to work with the Volcano situation.
NYBondGeek was extremely pleased with all of our services and each day we communicated with him via emails, text messages and phone calls. It was becoming clear to him and his wife that they were going to have to stay longer and we requested that he please make a final decision because we had other guests to accommodate and needed to make the best decisions everyone could make. He had already booked from APR 19 to APR 21 (3 nights) but out of our generosity he had only been charged for two.
As he assessed his situation he wanted to negotiate our nightly rate lower. He had gotten word from the Airlines that he would be able to depart Paris on APR 25th and he told us he had a reservation on a flight. We agreed that if he extended his stay until the 25th we would lower our nightly rate to 130.00 Euros. We communicated with him and let him know that other guests had wanted the apartment but we were giving him and his wife .... first priority because they were already at the apartment. We all agreed to the language of our contract and we emailed him in exact detail of what we were going to charge for the rest of his stay (495.00 Euros which equaled $680.91). Here is what we wrote in our email: “Here is what we will do. We have charged you for the two nights at 140.00 Euros and we will charge the rest of the nights until the 25th at 130.00 Euros. We will charge the 520.00 Euros (130 X 4) minus the 25 Euros we owe you for a total charge of 495.00 Euros.”
We provided a receipt of the charges to APR 25 on APR 19 and on APR 20 NYBondGeek emailed several desperate and odd emails telling our staff in Paris that we had authorized his departure (a lie) and shortly after he emails us letting us know the following: “We are leaving Paris after tonight.” “We have left the apartment in tidy shape. Both key sets are on the bookcase. A bag of rubbish is in the kitchen, as we did not know where to throw it. Thanks.”
NYBondGeek’s emails clearly insinuated that he was experiencing a fast departure from France. NYBondGeek made a contractual commitment to stay at our apartment until APR 25, we were unaware, as his emails prove beyond any doubt, that at the same time he was negotiating with us he was negotiating with either the Airlines, other apartment owners, hotel accommodations or planning to stay at another location.
Even though he was aware of his contractual commitment to our second property and the fact that we had told him we had denied others our apartment to accommodate him and his wife ...., it was of no concern to him. Promptly on APR 21st he was requesting that we process a refund he had already calculated, his words were: “I puled together this schedule of our stays, and the charges to my credit card Please confirm if you would be processing a refund of approximately $395.
Also, please let us know where we can leave positive feedback on our experience with your company. Thank you.”
In disbelief and stunned over this request we replied with another accommodating email and we wrote: “We are having a very hard time refunding the money because we had to say no to several other people that were also stranded and still are stranded in Paris. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.”
NYBondGeek demanded his full $395.00 refund and we replied with the following: “We accommodated you at the first apartment for the extra night. We then accommodated you at the second apartment. We honored the 150.00 rate rather then the 175.00 rate you already knew about. We provided you with a two night rental charge even though we had a three night minimum, as a gesture that we understood the situation. You then requested a reduction because you had made a decision to stay until APR 25. We did not charge you the remainder until APR 19 which is after you had indicated you would be staying until APR 25. All along we kept shuffling other people so that we could accommodate everyone. After your decision to stay until the 25th we still had other people that needed housing and they were not given the apartment you stayed at because of your decision to stay until the 25th. As you can see the majority of the time it has been us giving, giving and giving. Please remember we did not have to do a single thing, but that is not the way we operate.”
At this point NYBondGeek replied with the following: “We look forward to visiting Paris again soon, staying at your properties, while recommending your firm also to our friends and family. May I respectfully suggest that we meet in the middle, at $200? Thank you.”
Again out of our generosity we replied: “In keeping with our method of doing business, we will agree to a 200.00 USD refund. We are not doing it to meet each other half way, we are doing it because we are understanding people and realize that what took place was under no ones control.
Please consider the accounts settled and provide with an agreement via email to us. Upon hearing your response we will process the 200.00 USD refund to your CC on file.”
NYBondGeek replied with the following legal and binding agreement to our proposal and his final yes on the settlement of our financial relationship: “This works fine. Thank you. Is there an ideal site where we can post open recommendations for your services and properties? I plan to post positively and sincerely at least on the Robert Parker wine discussion forum, where many discriminating worldwide travel and wine enthusiasts make referrals to each other.”
We replied: “As you have found out – reviews are posted in various websites and of course we would love anything you post about us. Please reference our website as - http://www.rentparisnow.com – you can also provide us with your testimonial and we will post it on our website at - parisapartmentrental.biz/testimonials.html -
The following two links will also take you to websites where you can post your input.
http://www.vrbo.com/242308#comments
http://www.vrbo.com/228027#comments
Thank you and we will process the refund shortly.”
On APR 21, 2010 we processed the credit of $200.00 and emailed NYBondGeek the detail receipt for his records.
On APR 21, 2010 NYBondGeek replies with the following email with a link to his post on a website: “http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/...=220018“
* and adds – “FYI. I will post also to VRBO and perhaps TripAdvisor. Thank you.”
We replied on APR 21, 2010: “Thank you and we look forward to your future posts.”
He replied on APR 21, 2010: “Thank you.”
We later received a notification of a positive post on VRBO referencing our services.
On APR 26, 2010 we received the following email from NYBondGeek. “The positive VRBO reviews are posted now. .... and I finally got home on late Saturday night. Whew!”
We again were stunned at the realization that Saturday night was APR 24 and even more stunned because even though the Volcano caused a great deal of delays and to date we have heard many horror stories, we know for a fact that it did not take anyone approximately 4 nights and 5 days traveling on Airplanes to get from Paris, France to New York where NYBondGeek resides.
NYBondGeek’s email continues: “At last, I have sufficient time and computer access to double-check my CC charges. In the craziness last week, when we agreed upon $2,200 as your final total billing for the two apartments, we both forgot about the February 22 reservation deposit of $370.35. May you please kindly arrange to refund that?
I have attached the original spreadsheet which we used to estimate my total payments, and a corrected one, including screen-shots from my Citibank CC statements. Thank you.”
We replied: “We thank you for the kind postings on the various sites and we look forward to accommodating you in the future. All transactions regarding your rental are settled and no further refunds can be processed. We were very clear with you that we did not have to refund a single penny. Out of our kindness and because of the way we conduct business as we indicated in our emails we decided to agree with your estimate not ours. We also asked you to agree with us prior to processing the refund and you did.
Again we are very happy we assisted many people in need during the Volcano and especially for you and your wife. So glad all worked out so well.”
As the events have developed and today with NYBondGeek alleging all sorts of negative innuendos about our service we take this new finding as the greatest of insult, a complete slap in the face, especially since our generosity has gone far beyond the call of duty and after we spent hours and hours attending to over 60 emails, many phone calls and text messages from NYBondGeek.
What exactly took place from APR 21 to APR 26 only NYBondGeek and his wife .... can tell us, we are guessing that NYBondGeek decided to move to other accommodations. He did this of his own accord and in full knowledge of his violation of our rental agreement. Adding to this, his actions blatantly spit on the other poor people that could have used our apartment. People that ended up getting stuck for several days and nights at filthy airports “sewers” (to use NYBondGeek’s words when we spoke about the state of the airports in Europe) and with nowhere to sleep or take a shower.
On APR 26, 2010 NYBondGeek writes, “Still lacking any itemized billing/payment statement, both you and I overlooked the $370.35 which you had charged way back in February 22 on my credit card.” – at this point you the reader can see the absurdity of his statement that an itemized billing has not been provided and his statement is also attempting to once again place blame for his actions to another person.
NYBondGeek continues, “You billing should be timely, complete, and accurate. I should not absorb any discrepancy if otherwise, and again request a correcting refund of that $370.35 overpayment.” – bringing the reader to question the mindset of such thought process.
While the dialog continued VRBO informed us that the recent favorable testimonial posted by NYBondGeek was being removed at the request of NYBondGeek.
On APR 28, 2010 we received a threat from NYBondGeek, – “Contrary to what you said below, you issued no preliminary or final statement of the agreed-upon, incurred rentals, for comparison against the lump credit-card charges. Your e-mails of those lump charges simply do not constitute one. While awaiting your itemized bill, I resorted to drafting my own initial estimate....... which was exactly that, just an initial estimate. I needed to see if the incurred rentals matched your credit-card charges, which they clearly did not.
I would prefer for us to resolve this privately, rather than asking for my credit-card company to assist. Please advise. Thank you.” - shortly after this threat, we received your (VRBO) request to respond to his charges.
NYBondGeek writes his charges to you (VRBO) and states, “Apartment operator has overbilled, but will not refund.
We stayed at VRBO apartments #228027 and 242308 in Paris. Ultimately, the operator and I agreed to meet in the middle, at $2200 as the total cost for my apartment stays.
Still lacking any itemized billing/payment statement, both the operator and I overlooked the $370.35 which it had charged way back in February 22 on my credit card. If the operator were to keep this, that would raise the final total charges to $2570.35, clearly exceeding the agreed-upon $2200 total.
Rental billing should be timely, complete, and accurate. I should not absorb
any discrepancy if otherwise, and again requested a correcting refund of
that $370.35 overpayment.” – clearly his charges are a complete misrepresentation of events and deprived of any validity.
Conclusion
Our files on this issue demonstrate that NYBondGeek broke the contract for his rental agreement and they demonstrate the pride we take in making certain we provide good customer service. They also demonstrate that at every step of the process, contrary to what NYBondGeek has stated, we have provided detail records of all of our charges. As if that was not enough they also demonstrate our generosity with NYBondGeek regarding the two refunds we processed, two refunds that legally he was not entitled to receive.
Not only has NYBondGeek distorted the truth about all of the events, he has also used a simple but famous type of manipulative behavior, claiming those involved had already agreed with him making his actions justified at every turn and in his estimate he should be rewarded. As pointed out in his own words and in his own emails; he informed me that our Paris staff had told him we would charge him 150.00 Euros for the extra night (a lie), he informed our Paris staff that we had authorized him to depart from the apartment (a lie), he indicates in his email to you (VRBO) that I had already agreed to refund him additional money (another lie) and to add insult to injury he states that we both overlooked a payment (his most blatant lie to date).
Recommendation to VRBO
We hold ourselves to very high standards when performing our service and we are glad that VRBO is also exercising these valuable tool to make certain those of us using their service are held to such standards, we also hope VRBO makes certain that those using their service and ours like NYBondGeek are banned from any of the VRBO websites in the hopes that other owners, representatives or managers of properties do not have to put up with the factual experience we are going through.
Sincerely,
Jose Arturo Ibarra
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
gmulot
Europe
9
Oct 31st, 2011 06:45 PM
