Russia Question - Red Square June 10th, Russian Independence Day June 12th
Apr 15th, 2007, 08:16 PM
#21
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The repatriated Faberge Eggs were within the Kremlin, not on display anywhere in Red Square.
If you want to "set everyone straight", why not post links to some of your many trip reports, or your photos?
If you want to "set everyone straight", why not post links to some of your many trip reports, or your photos?
Apr 15th, 2007, 08:51 PM
#22
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I just posted the trip report. I am not bothering with the photos. I am not certain where the CD is and I generally do not put my photos up online. As you will see from the report--which certainly does not include every detail--I went to the Armory, the Diamond Room (within the Armory) and the Fabrege Eggs.
For the uninitiated, you generally walk through Red Square to get to the Armory. We also want to the GUM shopping center (which used to be the Russian department store but now is upscale merchants like Gucci, etc. That is adjacent to Red Square.
Of course, DJKBooks, my trip cannot possibly compare with yours because it had its glitches. Your trips never have any glitches. That is so strange because, except for one resort vacation I took in Hawaii, every trip I have ever taken has had glitches. Sometimes the glitches, by the way, end up being the things you remember the most. That is because they turn into adventures and you learn that you can survive in a foreign culture even when things go wrong.
I am very glad I took the trip I took--with the glitches--because it was the trip I wanted to take. I did not want to take a cruise because I wanted more time in Moscow and St. Petersburg than you had.
For the uninitiated, you generally walk through Red Square to get to the Armory. We also want to the GUM shopping center (which used to be the Russian department store but now is upscale merchants like Gucci, etc. That is adjacent to Red Square.
Of course, DJKBooks, my trip cannot possibly compare with yours because it had its glitches. Your trips never have any glitches. That is so strange because, except for one resort vacation I took in Hawaii, every trip I have ever taken has had glitches. Sometimes the glitches, by the way, end up being the things you remember the most. That is because they turn into adventures and you learn that you can survive in a foreign culture even when things go wrong.
I am very glad I took the trip I took--with the glitches--because it was the trip I wanted to take. I did not want to take a cruise because I wanted more time in Moscow and St. Petersburg than you had.
Apr 15th, 2007, 09:09 PM
#23
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<<As you will see from the report--which certainly does not include every detail...>>>
No mention of standing in/wandering about Red Square, though. To everyone, this would be a truly significant "detail".
And, actually, you do NOT "walk through Red Square to get to the Armory", as everyone who's actually ever been there knows, since the entrance is on another corner of the Kremlin.
Not only do we treasure our photos of Red Square (and can instantly find them on our PC's), Viking provided a videographer who captured us there!
No mention of standing in/wandering about Red Square, though. To everyone, this would be a truly significant "detail".
And, actually, you do NOT "walk through Red Square to get to the Armory", as everyone who's actually ever been there knows, since the entrance is on another corner of the Kremlin.
Not only do we treasure our photos of Red Square (and can instantly find them on our PC's), Viking provided a videographer who captured us there!
Apr 16th, 2007, 10:42 AM
#25
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OK, DJKB, for the Board Picayne Police, you walk through the Kremlin to get to The Armory. I walked through the Kremlin AGAIN to see the repatriated Fabrege eggs.
And just before we went through GUM we "stood in Red Square". Quite frankly, I was much more impressed with the Kremlin than I was with Red Square. That is why I did not use the precise words "stood in Red Square". I guess that is significant, DJKB, for the Board Picayune Police (of which you are the Chief) that you use those particular words in a trip report. It certainly was not significant for me that I use the specific words which you require to obtain your stamp of approval. In fact, your stamp of approval is totally meaningless to me.
By the way, and in response to the OP, when Red Square is closed down for Independence Day celebrations, parts of the Kremlin--or all of it--can be closed as well. Red Square and the Kremlin are sort of back to back in the same place, by the way.
So, I congratulate you personally, DJKB, on the amount of time YOU spent strolling in Red Square. Perhaps you spent more time than I did. I did not time my stay.
And just before we went through GUM we "stood in Red Square". Quite frankly, I was much more impressed with the Kremlin than I was with Red Square. That is why I did not use the precise words "stood in Red Square". I guess that is significant, DJKB, for the Board Picayune Police (of which you are the Chief) that you use those particular words in a trip report. It certainly was not significant for me that I use the specific words which you require to obtain your stamp of approval. In fact, your stamp of approval is totally meaningless to me.
By the way, and in response to the OP, when Red Square is closed down for Independence Day celebrations, parts of the Kremlin--or all of it--can be closed as well. Red Square and the Kremlin are sort of back to back in the same place, by the way.
So, I congratulate you personally, DJKB, on the amount of time YOU spent strolling in Red Square. Perhaps you spent more time than I did. I did not time my stay.
Apr 16th, 2007, 03:35 PM
#26
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OK - my question is changing.
For those who work/live in Moscow or who have visited Moscow the week of June 9th - if you can let me know what days they closed Red Square (1 day before, 2 days before the 12th), I would greatly appreciate it.
Hearing from those who were not there that week previously and who do not have first hand knowledge is not helping me in any way. Speculating and making blanket statements that it could close before and/or after doesn't help my situation at all.
Thanks for all those who responded who did have first hand knowledge.
For those who work/live in Moscow or who have visited Moscow the week of June 9th - if you can let me know what days they closed Red Square (1 day before, 2 days before the 12th), I would greatly appreciate it.
Hearing from those who were not there that week previously and who do not have first hand knowledge is not helping me in any way. Speculating and making blanket statements that it could close before and/or after doesn't help my situation at all.
Thanks for all those who responded who did have first hand knowledge.
Apr 16th, 2007, 04:04 PM
#27
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When I went with Elderhostel, I do know that Red Square was closed for at least one day beforehand. It might have been 2-3 days beforehand. I cannot say for sure.
Insofar as the Kremln and The Armory are concerned, I was in St. Petersburg when Independence Day arrived and cannot give you a definitive answer.
I tried googling to see if I could find anything that could help you definitively. I could not find anything about the closures in Moscow during this year's Independence Day celebrations (which could be different, of course, from what they did in past years).
Garfield might be able to help you.
Other than that, I would suggest you contact your tour company. If "standing" in Red Square is a make or break thing for you, you could always reschedule your trip. On the other hand, there might be special festivities that you could see that you would not see if it were not the holiday.
Garfield, are you out there?
Insofar as the Kremln and The Armory are concerned, I was in St. Petersburg when Independence Day arrived and cannot give you a definitive answer.
I tried googling to see if I could find anything that could help you definitively. I could not find anything about the closures in Moscow during this year's Independence Day celebrations (which could be different, of course, from what they did in past years).
Garfield might be able to help you.
Other than that, I would suggest you contact your tour company. If "standing" in Red Square is a make or break thing for you, you could always reschedule your trip. On the other hand, there might be special festivities that you could see that you would not see if it were not the holiday.
Garfield, are you out there?
Apr 16th, 2007, 05:35 PM
#28
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I have seen Red Square closed many times, some times it is for national holidays, other times for state visitors. I know it was closed for Mayday celebrations (1 May) and Victory Day (9 May), I would expect that it would be closed around Indepedence day. It also closes for concerts. Usually a holiday closure will start a couple of days before the event. I found that when Lenin's Tomb is open, the Square is closed, the Tomb is open Tue-Thur and Sat-Sun 10am-1pm. Most tour groups will enter the Square usually at around 9am, cross the square, visit the GUM, and then head for the Kremlin through the Kutafya Tower and exit near the Armoury. The Kremlin normal closing day is Thursday
Apr 16th, 2007, 06:17 PM
#29
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"Most tour groups will enter the Square usually at around 9am, cross the square, visit the GUM, and then head for the Kremlin through the Kutafya Tower and exit near the Armoury. The Kremlin normal closing day is Thursday."
I can't recall what time of day we did this, but we did cross the square and visit GUM and take photos of the exterior of St. Basil's. We did not see the interior of Lenin's Tomb but I was not the least disappointed that we didn't--sort of gruesome to preserve a body that way. We went to The Armoury on a separate day--the best I can remember now. Then I went back to the Kremlin to see the Fabrege eggs when I broke off from the tour for an afternoon.
I can't recall what time of day we did this, but we did cross the square and visit GUM and take photos of the exterior of St. Basil's. We did not see the interior of Lenin's Tomb but I was not the least disappointed that we didn't--sort of gruesome to preserve a body that way. We went to The Armoury on a separate day--the best I can remember now. Then I went back to the Kremlin to see the Fabrege eggs when I broke off from the tour for an afternoon.
Apr 16th, 2007, 10:09 PM
#30
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I think the speculation arises because it is not always possible to find out the answer to these type of questions this far in advance. Something I learnt while working in Russia, although that was a few years ago now, is that even though a day is a national holiday, sometimes it is only a day or two in advance that the government would grant an official day off for workers. I would expect it to be closed leading up to and including Independence day.
Apr 19th, 2007, 11:23 AM
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If Red Square is closed on the day you visit you can still get a good view from the south side, that is the side near the Moscow River and St Basil's. If you take a walk south and partway across the bridge you can get a good view of the Kremlin walls and towers. You will not run out of things to see in Moscow on a three day visit.
May 7th, 2007, 08:11 PM
#34
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I currently live in Moscow and will most definitely tell you that holiday or no holiday, Red Square can be open or closed at any time depending upon the whim of the police. I had a visitor late last June and we had to stop at Red Square at least 3 times before we finally got in.
Jun 14th, 2007, 02:27 AM
#35
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Here is a follow up.
We arrived in Moscow on the 10th and left early on the 12th.
Our river cruise had planned for us to go to Red Square on the 11th (day before holiday). They pretty much knew it would be closed on the 11th and thought it would be closed on the 10th.
We drove by on the way to the Armory on the 10th and I could tell it was open. No special arrangements were made to stop on the 10th even though it was open. After the Armory - I skipped the Art Gallery (starts with a T) and went to Red Square with some of our group. I then met up with the busses and told some others that it was open. We then had another group of 9 go to Red Square that night (skipping circus and Folkshow). None of us had any regrets...
I think our guides thought that seeing it from the sides "was good enough". Not IMO.
So for this year, Red Square was open all day on the 10th and seemed to be closed all day on the 11th.
We arrived in Moscow on the 10th and left early on the 12th.
Our river cruise had planned for us to go to Red Square on the 11th (day before holiday). They pretty much knew it would be closed on the 11th and thought it would be closed on the 10th.
We drove by on the way to the Armory on the 10th and I could tell it was open. No special arrangements were made to stop on the 10th even though it was open. After the Armory - I skipped the Art Gallery (starts with a T) and went to Red Square with some of our group. I then met up with the busses and told some others that it was open. We then had another group of 9 go to Red Square that night (skipping circus and Folkshow). None of us had any regrets...
I think our guides thought that seeing it from the sides "was good enough". Not IMO.
So for this year, Red Square was open all day on the 10th and seemed to be closed all day on the 11th.
Jun 19th, 2007, 08:44 AM
#36
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I hate to say this, but if you missed the Tretnyakov Gallery, you missed something, in my opinion, a lot more important than just looking at Red Square. The Tretnyakov is devoted to Russian art and it is much more interesting, again in my opinion, than the Pushkin Gallery because Russian art is not well known in the West and is spectacular.
I don't "get" the whole thing with Red Square. The most important thing in the area is the Armoury, not just standing there. The buildings you would like to get inside--the Government buildings with a lot of history--are closed to the public unless you luck out and are there on a special day when you can get in (very few of those and, no, I didn't get in). The rest of it is onion dome churches. There are sometimes special exhibits within the walls (I saw the repatriated Fabrege Easter eggs, for example).
When I was there with elderhostel, we could not get inside St. Basil's, so we just saw the outside (Some sort of renovation inside, if I recall correctly. We also did not go to Lenin's Tomb. Quite frankly, I don't think anyone in our group was interested in that. We did see the balcony where they review all the military parades.
Red Square and the Kremlin is just a major gathering place for tourists--Russian or non Russian. There are vendors, people in traditional costume (charging you a fee for taking their photographs), etc. Something to see, but I would not have missed the Tretnyakov.
Sorry, ha!, you will just have to go back to see what you missed. The same goes for me because you cannot see everything in Russia in one trip! Maybe I will go see Lenin's mummified body next time--if they haven't disposed of it by then.
I don't "get" the whole thing with Red Square. The most important thing in the area is the Armoury, not just standing there. The buildings you would like to get inside--the Government buildings with a lot of history--are closed to the public unless you luck out and are there on a special day when you can get in (very few of those and, no, I didn't get in). The rest of it is onion dome churches. There are sometimes special exhibits within the walls (I saw the repatriated Fabrege Easter eggs, for example).
When I was there with elderhostel, we could not get inside St. Basil's, so we just saw the outside (Some sort of renovation inside, if I recall correctly. We also did not go to Lenin's Tomb. Quite frankly, I don't think anyone in our group was interested in that. We did see the balcony where they review all the military parades.
Red Square and the Kremlin is just a major gathering place for tourists--Russian or non Russian. There are vendors, people in traditional costume (charging you a fee for taking their photographs), etc. Something to see, but I would not have missed the Tretnyakov.
Sorry, ha!, you will just have to go back to see what you missed. The same goes for me because you cannot see everything in Russia in one trip! Maybe I will go see Lenin's mummified body next time--if they haven't disposed of it by then.
Jun 19th, 2007, 12:43 PM
#37
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Theresa - thank you so much for reporting back. I would gladly have skipped the Tretyakov Gallery (which was wonderful) to visit Red Square, if we had to.
Having been there, I'm sure you will agree that there's much more to "get" about Red Square than Lenin's tomb, etc.
So amazing that where the Communist troups, the Nazis, used to march is now the sight of concerts!
The beauty of the architecture all about and the magical atmosphere are quite the contrast to its history.
I'm sure you are pleased with your persistence and wouldn't have missed it!
Having been there, I'm sure you will agree that there's much more to "get" about Red Square than Lenin's tomb, etc.
So amazing that where the Communist troups, the Nazis, used to march is now the sight of concerts!
The beauty of the architecture all about and the magical atmosphere are quite the contrast to its history.
I'm sure you are pleased with your persistence and wouldn't have missed it!
Jun 19th, 2007, 01:02 PM
#38
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Just to clear up things for DJKBooks and others who may have been misled by the above post because the history is incorrect.
Napoleon did burn Moscow. The Nazis wanted to take Moscow but General Winter intervened as it had for Napoleon. Winter defeated Hitler. So, no Nazis ever marched in Red Square.
And I am sorry that you missed the Tretnyakov, but you can't do everything.
Napoleon did burn Moscow. The Nazis wanted to take Moscow but General Winter intervened as it had for Napoleon. Winter defeated Hitler. So, no Nazis ever marched in Red Square.
And I am sorry that you missed the Tretnyakov, but you can't do everything.
Jun 19th, 2007, 09:16 PM
#39
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<<Napoleon did burn Moscow. >>
Actually, it is generally believed that the Russian troops and/or citizens (3/4 of whom abandoned the city as Napoleon approached) set the fire. But, no one knows for sure.
Napoleon and his troups arrived in MOSCOW in mid-September and left in mid-October.
Why would Napoleon burn Moscow?
Just to "set the record straight".
Actually, it is generally believed that the Russian troops and/or citizens (3/4 of whom abandoned the city as Napoleon approached) set the fire. But, no one knows for sure.
Napoleon and his troups arrived in MOSCOW in mid-September and left in mid-October.
Why would Napoleon burn Moscow?
Just to "set the record straight".
Jun 19th, 2007, 09:53 PM
#40
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Well Moscow burned while Napoleon was around but the NAZIS never entered RED SQUARE. I did not notice that you admitted you were ACTUALLY WRONG about Nazis and RED SQUARE, DJKB. But, then, you are never wrong are you?
By the way I found nothing so overwhelming about the architecture in Red Square--as opposed to the onion domed churches just the other side in the KREMLIN. However, the square in front of The Hermitage was where the 1905 protesters were mowed down. That square resonated with me due to that event. Red Square did not have the same significance for me.
By the way I found nothing so overwhelming about the architecture in Red Square--as opposed to the onion domed churches just the other side in the KREMLIN. However, the square in front of The Hermitage was where the 1905 protesters were mowed down. That square resonated with me due to that event. Red Square did not have the same significance for me.
