Ronda or Malaga?

Old Nov 21st, 2016, 01:37 PM
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Ronda or Malaga?

Hi everyone,
I posted in October about a trip I am planning to Madrid and Andalucía in October 2017 (most likely first 2 weeks). I have a question now that I have been doing more research. To recap, we will first visit our daughter and her family who live in Southern France. Then we (me and my husband - late 60's) want to travel to Spain for 2 weeks.

We usually rent a car, and my husband does the driving, but we have enjoyed a few train trips, and would like to do this trip mainly by train. I know the train tracks in Granada are being repaired, so it might be necessary to take the ALSA bus from Cordoba to Granada. I think Granada to Malaga would be via bus as well.

Here is our tentative itinerary (no reservations have been made, so we can change, if necessary):
Fly or take train from Marseilles to Madrid
Madrid - 4 nights
Toledo - 1 night
Seville - 4 nights
Cordoba - 1 night
Granada - 2 nights
Either Ronda or Malaga for 1 night
Then overnight in Madrid Or Madrid Airport for 1 night (fly home to U.S. the next day).

BTW, a few people from my other post suggested going to Seville first, instead of Madrid, and then work out way back to Madrid. For now, I might prefer going to Madrid first since it is a big city, and I know we will be getting tired towards the end of our trip & might prefer seeing the bigger city first, while we hopefully have more energy.

I have read up on both Ronda and Malaga, and I realize of course they are different from each other: Ronda is a "white town" surrounded by mountains; Malaga is on the Mediterranean with many new museums and sounds like great, fresh seafood. Malaga might be a nice change on this trip since we will be inland all the time in Spain.

I realize everyone has different interests, but I would like to hear people's opinions about both places.
Thank you!
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Old Nov 21st, 2016, 02:31 PM
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For lots of great info on trains check www.seat61.com - great info on discounted fares if you want to book in stone far in advance but much cheaper than walk-up fares. Other neat rail sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

I've been to both Ronda and Malaga and for a day I'd say Ronda is more manageable - the sight is the town itself- Malaga is neat but has a lot more to see and do in limited time.

But you can't go wrong.

If you want to alter you itinerary you can take buses between Seville and Ronda that go thru the famous white perched villages -much more a white town than Ronda.
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Old Nov 21st, 2016, 03:24 PM
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If you were driving, then I'd recommend spending the night in Ronda, but since there is no direct rail connection from Ronda to Madrid, I'd go with spending the night in Málaga.

Fresh seafood is available almost everywhere in Spain, but some places, known for their specialties, are better then others.

If you spend the night in Toledo, you will have to return to Madrid in order to take the train to Córdoba or Sevilla.

You can do Córdoba as a day trip from Sevilla, or stop for the night on the way to Sevilla, and travel by bus from Sevilla to Granada.

Check Renfe.com or Petrabax.com for your Spanish rail tickets.
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Old Nov 21st, 2016, 05:26 PM
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I would route quite differently, and definitely do Madrid at the end so as not to backtrack and not have two hotel stays.

If Flights are reasonably priced, I would, early morning, fly to
Malaga, 2 nts.
Bus to Granada, 2 nts.
Bus (train? - I am not up on status of that) to Seville, 3 nts.
Train late afternoon from Seville to Córdoba, 2 nts.
Train to Madrid, train straight on to Toledo, 1 nt.
Late afternoon, bus or train to Madrid, 3 or 4 nts. One day trip to Segovia.

This cuts off one day of travel and the only time you would be traveling 2 days in a row would be to Toledo and from Toledo to Madrid. Toledo to Madrid is only 1/2 an hour, plus getting to your hotel, so that is a very, short bit, wouldn't even count if it were not for changing hotels.

While Madrid is a city of some size, it is extremely easy to navigate and very easy to walk many places. Of course, there are some busy streets, but there are also parks with lakes and plazas with cafes and fountains to relax and have a tapas or drink and hear music and enjoy the culture. It is not an overwhelming or taxing city in any way, so do not fear putting it at the end.
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Old Nov 21st, 2016, 06:29 PM
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You've currently got four one night stops, which I generally dislike. I like Sassafrass' plan. Alternatives could also be flying Marseille to Seville or flying home to the USA from Seville or Malaga instead of Madrid. It's always nice to actually stay in a place but if you don't want to move quite so frequently, it is entirely possible to visit both Toledo and Cordoba for the day from Madrid and Seville respectively.

Maybe?:
fly Marseille to Malaga (2 nights)
Ronda (2)
Seville (3 or 4) incl. day trip to Cordoba
Granada (2 or 3)
Madrid (4) incl. day trip to Toledo

That way you get both Malaga and Ronda and no one night stops.

Or reverse if prefer to visit Madrid first and fly home from the south?
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Old Nov 21st, 2016, 07:22 PM
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2 nights would not have been enough time in Granada for me (but that's what many people give it). 1 night would not have been enough time in Toledo for me (even though many people visit it as a day trip). 1 night would not have been enough time in Cordoba for me (even though many people visit it as a day trip).

Much as I enjoyed Ronda, 2 nights would be 1 night too many for me. For your time frame, I would skip both Ronda and Malaga to make sure you have enough time for the highlights of Andalusia. YMMV.

As for Madrid itself, I'm an ardent fan of art. I spent 4 very full days in Madrid, much of that in museums from the time they opened until they closed (and I planned my time to maximize the number of late evening closures I could include). I did not find that taxing; if anything, I find visits to marvelous museums to be energizing. I mention it only if it affects your decision of where to place your time in Madrid. If art isn't your think, then Sassafrass's remarks about Madrid are well worth considering. Several of us have already (on your other thread) noted the time-saving advantages of putting all your time in your departure city at the END of your trip.

One other thought: Of all the places you are considering, Madrid is -- for many of us -- the one that is easiest to reach and so easiest to include in another trip. That, to me, is an argument for shortchanging it if you must shortchange anything -- and by my thinking, you will have to shortchange one or more of these wonderful destinations. Just a thought....
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Old Nov 21st, 2016, 09:18 PM
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kja, assuming that something has to give - fewer places or shorter stays - if one were not such an ardent fan of art, would you recommend staying in Toledo and visiting Madrid as a day trip? Just curious as it's the opposite to what many people do.

I agree that more time in Granada and Cordoba would be lovely. Skipping Madrid altogether and focusing on the south would concentrate the itinerary to a smaller area and allow more time. That would change the itinerary completely and isn't really what the OP asked for though.
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Old Nov 21st, 2016, 09:58 PM
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@ dreamon: I think it extremely unlikely that I would urge someone to stay in Toledo and visit Madrid from Toledo as a day trip -- nor was that my intention. I would not recommend that anyone stay in a city other than one's departure city on the night before a flight unless transportation is so impeccably on time (as it is in Japan) that it would be virtually unthinkable to have to deal with a missed or delayed connection. And I always urge travellers to consult some good guidebooks, identify priorities, plot them out on a calendar (with careful attention to opening hours, etc.), and then make a decision based on personal interests and preferences. But if given a choice between shortchanging Toledo (assuming one is going there at all) or shortchanging Madrid, yes, I'd shortchange Madrid so one can take full advantage of the time one does have in Toledo to see it's many treasures (assuming they are of interest to the traveler). For me -- and it is, I think, a very personal choice, there are places to which I will probably never return, even though there are things I would still like to see, specifically because it would mean too much time for too little "extra" effect. There are just too many places I want to see in the world to spend my time backtracking! But I will have to go through cities with international airports again. So for me, I would not be likely to return to Toledo, even if I didn't give it all the time I wanted to give it on a first visit. I would be likely to return to Madrid, as it is a gateway city for Spain. Just my perspective....
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Old Nov 21st, 2016, 11:19 PM
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Thank you, kja. I never meant to imply that you had suggested visiting Madrid from Toledo. But for people interested in Toledo and smaller towns in general, it could make sense. It's a long time since I've visited so was interested in someone else's perspective. Like you, I also try to be in my departure city prior to an international flight. Doing otherwise would only work (without anxiety) if the flight was late in the day, and there were alternatives to get to the airport if things went pear shaped.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 12:06 PM
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Thank you to everyone for your helpful and detailed replies. Because they are smaller cities, it never occurred to me that we could fly back to Boston from Malaga or Seville. I assumed we would have to fly home from Madrid. I agree with what everyone has said that returning to Madrid is wasting time. So, when I am finished with this post, I will check out airfares from Malaga or Seville to Boston.

Another alternative, as some of you pointed out, is to fly from Marseilles to Seville, and visit Madrid at the end of our trip. So I will check out prices for that, too.

This is what is important to us:

We like big cities, small cities, and villages/towns, so that is why we want to include Madrid along with Andalucía. We like museums but wouldn't want to spend all day/every day in a museum, unless it is raining. We also like to walk around, explore side streets, plazas, see the architecture, fountains, relax at cafes, etc.

We also want to include Madrid on this trip because this will be our second trip to Spain, and I don't think we will return because there are so many other places we want to visit. Our plan, as long as we stay healthy, is to add on 1 or 2 weeks every time we visit our daughter in France, so that we can visit other countries. We have not been to Portugal, Ireland, Scotland, Hungary, Romania, Croatia, to name a few. and want to visit these places.

While one-night stays are not my first choice, I would rather do that than day trips so that we can be in Cordoba and Toledo at night after the tourists leave. We spent 2 nights each in Cesky Krumlov and Karlovy Vary in the Czech Republic several years ago, and we loved being there at night after all the tour buses left. One of my fondest memories is having dinner near the castle in Cesky Krumlov while it was lit up. Such a beautiful sight!

So I will definitely look into flying home from Seville OR flying from Marseilles to Seville so that we can make Madrid our last stop, and then fly home from Madrid.

I think if we have to eliminate a place, it will be Ronda and/or Malaga. We just can't see everything, but I know we will love what we do see.

What does YMMV mean?
thanks!
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Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 12:11 PM
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Karen - You seem to fancy seafood so I would choose Malaga. As you said, you'll have been inland for the rest of your trip, so a good dose of salt air is in order !
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Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 12:14 PM
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BTW, the guidebooks I have are Lonely Planet's guide on Andalucía, and Fodor's guide on Spain, which of course includes Madrid and Toledo.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 12:45 PM
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flying from Marseilles to Seville so that we can make Madrid our last stop>

by train that is a long long haul -OK if you want to split it up and stop in Barcelona for a night or two, a city many enjoy as much as Madrid - try to do both IMO -slice a day or two off Madrid itself in any case unless doing other day trips (like Segovia, Avila, etc).

I might cut a day off Seville itself too and add in Ronda and Malaga!
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Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 01:30 PM
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> What does YMMV mean?
= Your Mileage May Vary
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Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 02:52 PM
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PalenQ, we spent about 7 days in Barcelona in 2010, and while we loved it, don't want to return. We wouldn't take a train from Marseilles to Seville; we would fly if we do that. I checked out airfares from Marseilles to Madrid, and they are reasonable on RyanAir. Also found a good open jaw fare from Boston to Marseilles and then Seville to Boston. But we aren't ready to make reservations yet, but it's good to know there are reasonable fares. Hope they will be just as good when we are ready to book.
Thank you!
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Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 03:21 PM
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Check flying into Granada also. Granada is one of my favorite cities for wandering. The center is a warren of tiny pedestrian walkways. It is hilly and views overlooking the Alhambra are lovely.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 04:02 PM
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I didn't mean to suggest that there is nothing to enjoy in Madrid other than museums -- it has much to offer! I was just trying to provide some context in case it helped you decide whether it should be seen first or last.

I'm another (rare) Fodorite who generally prefers one-night stays to day trips -- I find it so wonderful to see places in different lights and after daytrippers leave and to have memories of meals and lodging that are unique to each destination! One-night stays are not without disadvantages, but for those of us who are willing to include them in our plans, they can offer a lot!

Yes, YMMV = your mileage may vary, in the sense that your experience could be different.

You might want to consult another guidebook or two on Madrid and Toledo, perhaps at your local library. While I found Fodor's extremely helpful, it didn't cover either of those cities in the depth that suited my interests.

As for flights, you might also check with the carrier you plan to use for your main transatlantic route. Sometimes they'll agree to add a flight on one of their code-shares, which would be great because it would simplify getting your luggage to where it needs to be.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 10:27 PM
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Perhaps also check Vueling, Spain's budget airline.

One of the things which influences me in deciding whether to stay overnight or just day trip is the availability of late night transport. If I can return 'home' at 11pm-midnight, then that makes a difference to my decisions. Or if it's going to be hot and I want an afternoon siesta back at my hotel, then I'll stay overnight.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 11:14 PM
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Second Bedar's suggestion, go for Málaga for salt air and fabulous seafood, perhaps try one of the chiringuitos (beachfront restaurants): https://www.spain-holiday.com/Malaga...nt-restaurants

What a city! World class museums, amazing restaurants and tapas bars, genuine and laid-back Andalucian atmosphere.
Lonely Planet now describes Málaga as Andalucía's "city of culture with its so-called 'mile of art' being compared to Madrid, and its dynamism and fine dining to Barcelona". https://www.lonelyplanet.com/spain/andalucia/malaga

Pretty much to the point. You can read up on the many great museums, the many historic sights right in the city center (the Roman theater, the Moorish Alcazaba palace/fortress, the huge 16th century cathedral etc. etc.) and the faulous food scene in newspapers and travel magazines, but here are some tips from our latest trip:

The freshest typical Málaga style fish and seafood in very popular Chiringuito Cachalote right on the Malagueta beach. Also several other excellent chiringuitos (beachfront restaurants) along the long and wide Malagueta beach, for example more upscale Chiringuito Tropicana and more laid-back Chiringuito La Jabega where you eat the freshest grilled fish and seafood with your feet in the sand. http://chiringuitoelcachalote.com/

Affordable cuttting edge dining in Óleo at the Contemporary Arts Center by the river. Excellent terrace, atmosphere and the most friendly, knowledgeable and accommodating waiters. Best food experience in more than a year, and that includes several days in food mecca San Sebastián: http://azahar-spain.com/azahartapas/oleo/

Genuine flamenco song and guitar down in the basement in Peña Juan Breva, one of the oldest exsting flamenco clubs in Spain, every Friday night at 10:30 pm. Free entrance and also an atmospheric bar/restaurant on the ground floor. Also a flamenco museum here: http://www.malagaturismo.com/en/tour...breva-group/79

Two Michelin star chef Dani Garcias 4€ bull-tail burger at Wendy Gambas is the best burger I've ever had, and I've had my fair share of great burgers, especially in San Francisco and the Bay Area: http://azahar-spain.com/azahartapas/wendy-gamba
Dani García's recipe: http://www.madridfusion.net/recetaDe...eta=0000000469

The new Gastro-market, next door to the Picasso birth-house. https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2...odie-traveller

And in a short time Gran Hotel Miramar from 1926 reopens right on the Malagueta beach: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...miramar+malaga

The great food scene is much thanks to the fabulous Atarazanas food market right in the city center. My favourite food market in Spain after thirty years of travel around the country. Also a couple of fabulous tapas bars in here with excellent seafood: https://eastofmalaga.net/2014/07/25/...ry-perception/
Café Bar Mercado Atarazanas: http://azahar-spain.com/azahartapas/...do-atarazanas/
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Old Nov 23rd, 2016, 04:28 AM
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We recently flew from Marseille to Spain and from Spain to Lyon. We ended up choosing Madrid as our Spanish arrival and departure city, though we were spending most of our time in Andalucía.

We found flight connections to Andalucía to/from both Lyon and Marseille very poor. Most flights (Seville, Granada) seemed to route you through Madrid ... or Lisbon ... or even London!

The sole exception was Malaga, which we were not planning to visit, so did not consider as an entry point.

(After we flew into Madrid, we drove straight to Toledo for 2 nights. It was a revelation and the cathedral was only a starting point. The highpoints were the Visigoth museum and San Juan de los Reyes monastery.)

If you're interested in seeing Malaga, I would definitely check out the direct MRS-AGP flight on Ryanair.

Alternatively, you can likely find a decent routing home to Boston from Malaga -- e.g. on Swiss Airlines, with a Switzerland connection (I know they have decent Malaga-Zurich routings to Montreal, my arrival city)
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