lol

Hello all
Our 7th wedding anniversary is coming up in September and we're plan to spend it in London. I thought it would be romantic to split the 5 nights between London and the Cotswolds. Is that a good idea? My husband does not like moving around a lot (at least 2-3 nights in each place), so it would have to be only one of the Cotswolds. Can someone offer any suggestions for a place that has good food and restaurants/cafes that stay up a bit late. Can we get there by train from Euston station (near our hotel). Also is there a train that would take us straight to Heathrow on the way back.

I'm also looking for recommendations for a venue (not necessarily an upscale restaurant) for a romantic dinner in London, not too expensive or pretentious. We are both 32 and don't drink.

Thanks a lot

janisj

>>Can we get there by train from Euston station (near our hotel).<<

No

You'd have to go to Paddington or Marylebone stations.



>>Also is there a train that would take us straight to Heathrow on the way back.<<

No

There is not much rail service into the Cotswolds. You can get to Moreton in Marsh, Charlbury, Kingham or Eveshamm, most of which are sort on the edges of the Cotswolds -- that is about it. Also - not a lot of nightlife in the Cotswolds. You'd want a bit of a town - Like Burford or Chipping Campden to have a choice of places to eat/pubs. But neither is on a rail line.

No trains go to Heathrow except from Paddington Station in Central London. You could take a train to Reading and then a bus to LHR.

So to wander around the Cotswolds you'd probably want to rent a car. Then you could drop the car back at LHR before flying out.

But for what you seem to want - and if you don't want to drive - I'd probably change plans a bit. You can take the train from Paddington to Bath. Spend two nights there and then take an express coach (bus) from Bath to LHR.

janisj

as for London -- what do you consider "not too expensive"?

hsv

London:

I would look into Alloro on Dover St (backside of Brown's Hotel) - it features, as you may guess from the name, Italian style cuisine which is executed on a fairly high level, i.e. not a "red-sauce" Italian place. Their set menu (with choices within the courses) is quite reasonable, it only gets expensive when one splurges on the wine, which you won't. Service is quite good and the atmosphere is intimate enough.
http://www.alloro-restaurant.co.uk/

I also recently had a pre-theatre dinner at Quo Vadis in Soho which featured a choice of 3 courses at much more than average quality and which came at an amazingly low price. Maybe worth checking, too, although I am not quite clear whether one has to be a member.
http://www.quovadissoho.co.uk/

Cotswolds:
Depending on what romantic constitutes, this may or may not be right, but I quite enjoy the Kingham Plough, a gastro pub in Kingham, which, as was pointed out bz janisj already even has a train station (I have never taken the train, so I have no idea whatsoever how to get there). Prices are reasonable, the food is of good quality, the Cotswold Lager they serve excellent (not sure whether beer is allowed under your no drink policy) and the ambiance nice enough. They also appear to have some rooms - and are within walking distance to the posh food shopping paradise at Daylesford, which could make for a nice stroll (and as you don't drink I don't even have to warn you of their utterly undrinkable organic Rosé).
http://www.thekinghamplough.co.uk/

flanneruk

The Kingham Plough is an excellent pub/restaurant, of a sort that's dismally rare in Britain.

But it's nearly a mile from the railway station, and Kingham has a pretty rotten bus service. It's also a "walk" to Daylesford in the Cotswold sense: a pleasant couple of miles each way - fine for gentle early morning exercise but, I've found, far too much like hard work for many of the idle couch poatoes that frequent this site (though I'm sure the poster isn't in that group).

The Plough is a splendid centre for a not terribly serious middle-aged walking holiday, of the 15 miles a day variety. And Kingham often gets nominated "best place in Britain to live in" (though only by people unfamiliar with its far nicer near-neighbours). But it's practically the worst place in Britain to use as a base for touring the Cotswolds without a car.

If that's what you want, you need to stay somewhere with a decent bus system. Chipping Campden is really the only place (buses to it from Moreton in Marsh meet just about all the hourly trains from Paddington, it's got other buses and there's a reasonable range of restaurants). Otherwise you need to hire a car. Since there's limited availability in the Cotswolds themselves, you may as well either hire one at Heathrow (sort of on the way), or at the Hertz in Kidlington, Oxford (a cab ride out of town, but 50 yds off the A44 into the Cotswolds - and 3 miles from the "The Cotswolds Start Here" road sign - so you don't need to mess with urban traffic.)

Public transport details for the area at http://www.cotswoldsaonb.org.uk/user...e%20June09.pdf

lol

Thanks so much for the replies.
Hmmm, since I doubt that my husband wants to drive. This leaves me with one of two choice
1-To reduce the cotswolds to day trip along with a nice lunch. I know many tour companies do that and combine two cotswolds in one day but we don't like to be rushed so we have to do it on our own.
2-To choose another little town also around 2 hours away from London for 2 nights (with nice restaurants, nice scenery and one that would be enjoyable to walk around) that has good rail or bus service to heathrow.

Any thoughts?

As to London: not too expensive for me is less that 100 quid for the both of us.


Thanks a lot

Dukey

I am sorry to hear about your husband's aversion to driving because IMO a car is a wonderful way to see some of the BEST scenery in England and by that i mean the Cotswolds..absolutely unforgettable.

To me it would be worth all the so-called "hassle" of a car hire just to experience the place.

lol

Dukey, I see your point. I could try to convince him but only if I am sure that it would be a relatively easy drive (no chance of getting lost). Also is it easy to get the hang of driving on the right side?
If so, which Cotswolds should we base ourselves in for 2 nights?

Thanks

janisj

OK - "The Cotswolds" is an area, not individual places. I assume by "one or two Cotswolds" or "which Cotswold" you mean which Cotswold villages you should visit.

Yes - driving is the absolute best option UNLESS you choose Chipping Campden like both flanner and I mentioned. Chipping Campden is exactly the sort of Cotswold village you want - a few nice places to eat, some pubs, lovely Cotswolds stone houses - sort of a picture postcard. The main (almost only) train station in the Cotswolds is at Moreton-in-Marsh and from there you could take a bus or a taxi to Chipping Campden. Its about 5 or 6 miles away.

Now - even for Chipping Campden - a car would be nice - but at least the train/bus is a car-less option.

"<i>no chance of getting lost</i>" The driving is easy peasy after maybe an hour getting used to being on the other side of everything. But there is NO way we can guarantee you won't get lost. Getting lost is no big deal BTW -- we are talking about small country roads and a 3 or 4 miles diversion might take you through a lovely valley or up to a viewpoint so not to worry. You'd want to get a road atlas (can be bought in any petrol station or shop/news agent). I would not rely on a GPS or at least not 100% since in small country roads they can send you down the weirdest routes and even into farmyards.

I rented a house in Kingham for a week a few years ago -- It was a good place to base but is not a "destination" in itself (except for the Plough). I cannot possibly imagine staying there w/o a car.

So my suggestions would be:

1) If you decide against driving a car - stay in Chipping Campden
2) If you decide to drive - then Chipping Campden would still be a good choice or you could stay in any Cotswold town/village. Bigger ones like Burford or tiny ones like Lower Slaughter, Bibury or anywhere.
3) If Chipping Campden seems too difficult by train (it isn't) - then pick someplace like Salisbury or Bath or Canterbury - they are not villages - but are beautiful small cities w/ lots to see and good places to eat w/i easy reach of London by train.

lol

Sorry haven't replied sooner. We haven't decided yet against driving. Is it easy to drive out of central London on a weekday during morning hours (round 9-10 am)?

Thanks all

janisj

You do not want to rent a car in London. Go out to Heathrow and pick up your cars there. Much easier than driving in central London. LHR is located right on the motorway that you'd take northwest to the Cotswolds.

The next best option would be to take the train to Oxford and then a taxi to the Hertz location in Kidlington. From there it is an even easier drive into the Cotswolds. But there would be extra expense for the train and a 5 mile cab ride.

hsv

I don't see a problem driving out of central London around that time. Inner-city traffic tends to have some congestion, but once you get onto the A4/M4 or A40/M40, depending where you come from, traffic should be reasonable.

janisj

Sure, many of us could drive in/out of London. But for a first timer, not used to other side of the road, the other side of the car, the road signage, and the names of streets changing every few blocks -- central London is not such a great place to get one's feet wet.

Now if the pick up location is near Edgware Rd/Marble Arch, it wouldn't bee too bad, but they'd still have to get through all of west London.

Picking up at LHR or Kidlington makes a lot more sense for the majority of visitors.

helen_belsize

Perhaps the most important thing to know about motorway driving is that you need to know the number of your exit. They are called Junctions. So for example an instruction will be exit at Junction 19. Signs warning of blockages and breakdowns will use the Junction number e.g. Jct 12. The books of maps which people have recommended have these clearly marked.

Where you pick up the car will really depend on your experience of driving on city roads. I agree with hsv once you are pointed westward the fact that the road names change on the way out won't really bother you and even coming back if you are dropping off at Edgware Rd or Marble Arch it is a straight route.

If you have a car you can go to Burford which is set up for the romantic experience. The hotels have honeymoon suites and there is a wonderful smell of wood smoke hanging all over the town.

janisj

"<i> I agree with hsv once you are pointed westward the fact that the road names change on the way out won't really bother you and even coming back if you are dropping off at Edgware Rd or Marble Arch it is a straight route</i>"

Not so easy - since there isn't a straight forwward E/W/N/S grid anywhere. Many folks in the States/Canada can tell which way they are headed at just about any time because many (most) of our cities are laid out on a precise grid. There are no such mental triggers in UK cities to get them in the right direction.

OF COURSE one can drive out of London -- but to hint that it makes no virtually difference and is just as easy as collecting a car at LHR is just plain wrong.

I've driven 10's of thousands of miles in the UK (much more than many of my London-based friends) and have driven to and through London many times. Can I do it? Sure. But, if possible I avoid doing so. And for the majority of first timers, they should as well . . . .

flanneruk

"there isn't a straight forwward E/W/N/S grid anywhere"

Yes there is. The A404 Euston/Marylebone Rd to Oxford (at the extreme east of which there are car hire places round Euston and Kings Cross), and the the A40 Bayswater Rd (just next to the Hertz at Edgware Rd) are both as perfect east-west roads as you'll find anywhere. And Edgware Rd, at its southern end is a great deal closer to a pure North-South road than many roads inaccurately described as "north" in North America. (for the historically curious: this apparently unEnglish straightforwardness is the result of the Roman SOP in the case of the Bayswater and Edgware roads, and standard Georgian ruthlessness in the case of the Euston road)

All a driver for the Cotswolds has to do is point the car west and follow the signs for Oxford (which, because of a quirk in how British governments are manned, is the best-signposted city in Britain). The road is divided highway practically all the way from Kings Cross to beyond Oxford.

I can - with some disbelief at how dunderheaded people can be - just about understand the standard American whinges about driving in London. If you're that much of a woose, getting a car back to a London hire place probably IS a bit too much to expect.

But not even the woosiest American could struggle at getting a car to Oxford from any of the standard London hire places.

For some it might be easier to get the train or bus to Oxford then collect a car at Kidlington. But it really isn't essential.

janisj

flanner: You seem to have changed your tune a bit since last week:

"<i>NO town in England (or Scotland) is friendly to drivers used to driving on the wrong side. . . . The ONLY exceptions to the "always pick up and drop off at an airport" rule are:
- a tiny handful of "parkway" railway stations (like Bristol Parkway) next to a motorway, . . . . .
- The Hertz at Kidlington, Oxford - way out of town, pratically in Blenheim and an easy cab ride to Oxford hotels or station. . . . . .</i>"

"<i>And half the problem for visitors is navigation: even satnav doesn't necessarily help you find a car hire office. Airports have signs saying "car hire return this way". Cities have small signs saying "Shunters and Wheeltappers Avenue" that you don't see till you've driven past them.

. . . . navigating your way through Chipping Campden (or even Bath) to a hotel is worth the hassle. Fighting your way to the Swindon </i><blue>[or dare I add "London"? jj]</blue><i> Hertz office is a pointless chore</i>"

taggie

lol, if this is your first trip to London, I think you should just stay there for the whole 5 days. So much to see there - you will just get a taste of it.

If I've missed something, and you've been before, then you might want to consider a day trip to the Cotswolds (London Walks offers one on certain days of the week and it's a pretty good compromise. Part is by train and then a little bus picks you up so that you can get to a few of the villages). Or think about taking the train overnight to Bath.

Regarding the driving... I've driven in and out of London a few times, usually with someone else, so there's one of us to navigate and one to drive. The last trip, I did it myself, and didn't have any trouble getting out of the Marble Arch area and out to Oxford, but I know the city quite well. Driving in the Cotswolds was more of a challenge, as it always has been for us, even though I've been there on several visits.